Man Kills Two Teens Robbers

[RüneRS]

A human life seems to be worth less in Minnesota then it does in my country, I hope this guy goes to jail

[Terridon]

Except a subsection clearly states that statute does not authorize use of deadly force.

I have already linked it twice, and suspect people are being obtuse.

Wait what. You're defending the one you're arguing with now, trying to pin me on saying i think it's cool to kill people under the term "reasonable force"?

[Doctor Amadeus]

I'm not saying people shouldn't be responsible for their own safety, just that the government should do everything in it's power to improve the living standards of its people. Because you know... That literally is it's purpose.

Well within reason perhaps, I am not sure about those who clearly already made the choice not to participate, or choose an unacceptable way to destroy what others have built or steal it.


And I somewhat agree with you as a liberal, but the problem is that this is America, we aren't like Europe and you would be hard pressed to find people that in general feel the way you do, people take freedom or even their perception of freedom as serious as anything you can imagine, even to a point they would lie, die or kill for it.


Until you understand that, you really can't speak intelligently about issues such as this in the states, because our cultures is one of violence and working things out through the midst of conflict.


This is no exception, this man clearly felt the way he did to defend his live and property to the point where he reacted the way he did and that is why castle law exist and stand your ground, and being From Minnesota were i would say we are in general a more progressively liberal state, we don't have a death penalty but we do have Conceal Carry Permits, We have had a Mostly Republican Senate and Governor but almost always go blue in general elections.

[Moadar]

Like others said, irrelevant... But we can make a relevancy if you ask for it.....
You referring to the incident in Norway, right?
Okay.. I'm game..
Go, find the numbers of any such case starting with 5+ people killed in Norway, and in the USA. Use the last 25 year. I don't want to overstress you.
Find every mall shooting, school shooting, movies shooting etc.
Then give us the numbers and we talk again, okay?

Btw; I say 5+ just to be fair and give you somewhat of a chance that you could find a pro-US result.
You won't tho..

I'm not sure how you can't see its relevant when the topic turned to disarming US citizens and the whole anti-gun crap.

Whats Norways population? 5 million? Thats about the population of a state. Of course there is more crime when there is more people. Especially when we more than 5 million people just living in poverty. Crime comes from low socioeconomic status. So nice try to skew the argument by comparing the crime statistics of a small well off country to a large one with a varied population.

[namelessone]

A warning shot? This isn't an 18th century naval engagement. Maybe he should have sent his commander to discuss parlay on the battlefield, too?

You don't fire warning shots. You shoot to do the most damage you can. Finishing somebody off is going too far, but when you click that safety off, you shoot to kill - you never - never shoot to warn.

This is true by the way, all gun safety courses always teach to shoot to kill. Warning shots and shots to wound are dangerous not only to yourself, but also to innocent passer-by.

[Themius]

A warning shot? This isn't an 18th century naval engagement. Maybe he should have sent his commander to discuss parlay on the battlefield, too?

You don't fire warning shots. You shoot to do the most damage you can. Finishing somebody off is going too far, but when you click that safety off, you shoot to kill - you never - never shoot to warn.

when a person breaks into your home, and you don't want to be a prick and kill them just because your tv is threatened you would fire a warning shot to make them aware you have a gun. At that point most would run out of there.

[Sealed Shut]

r
I don't really accept defense of property. Fuck property. flat screen tv isn't worth a life, even the life of a low life piece of scum, is worth more than a fucking flat screen, or some lap top or blender. What the fuck is it with humans that are so quick to throw one another under the bus. I mean we didn't get where we are today by being stoic lack of compassion, lack of empathy pricks. Today people are so fucking detached, it's maddening. "My tv noooo!!!!"

Defend your family, yes. Defend yourself, but fuck property defense honestly.



Was he nicking your tv and laptop when you shot him in the process? Alright that's fine. He died, but you still have your quickly depreciating laptop because it's a windows crap one, and your 32 inch flat screen off brand tv. e

So let me ask you this... after your home has been broken into, and after your private life has been violated... What exactly is peace of mind worth? what is it worth for that family that now lives in fear that their home will be broken into again... that the sanctity of their home has been violated.. that the one place where they should feel 100% secure in this world is actually not. What is it worth for that mother to be afraid of being home alone while her husband is at work... or the fear the parents live in whenever their children are home from school and they are not home from work yet.

You hear the word HOME and think of physical possessions... to me, HOME is a state of mind.

[Deleted]

The importance of removing clearly psychotic and dangerous men from society for the health and safety of others.

He had been robbed 8 times in the last couple of years,at some point he was going to go crazy.
The kids gambled and they lost-it was their own fault.

[justlols]

Why should he have stopped?

So that they could had potentially pulled out a weapon and fired back?

Na, the old man did good. Two stupid kids, 2 less stupid people in the world.

[Kasierith]

So let me ask you this... after your home has been broken into, and after your private life has been violated... What exactly is peace of mind worth? what is it worth for that family that now lives in fear that their home will be broken into again... that the sanctity of their home has been violated.. that the one place where they should feel 100% secure in this world is actually not. What is it worth for that mother to be afraid of being home alone while her husband is at work... or the fear the parents live in whenever their children are home from school and they are not home from work yet.

You hear the word HOME and think of physical possessions... to me, HOME is a state of mind.

I think that most of us are in agreement that, from what we know, the killing of the boy was justified by the law. The girl, and the manner in which she was executed, is the matter held in contention.

---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 05:01 PM ----------

He had been robbed 8 times in the last couple of years,at some point he was going to go crazy.
The kids gambled and they lost-it was their own fault.

For being shot at the first time, not the execution. He stepped over the lines of self defense when he finished her off.

[Alkin]

Well within reason perhaps, I am not sure about those who clearly already made the choice not to participate, or choose an unacceptable way to destroy what others have built or steal it.


And I somewhat agree with you as a liberal, but the problem is that this is America, we aren't like Europe and you would be hard pressed to find people that in general feel the way you do, people take freedom or even their perception of freedom as serious as anything you can imagine, even to a point they would lie, die or kill for it.


Until you understand that, you really can't speak intelligently about issues such as this in the states, because our cultures is one of violence and working things out through the midst of conflict.


This is no exception, this man clearly felt the way he did to defend his live and property to the point where he reacted the way he did and that is why castle law exist and stand your ground, and being From Minnesota were i would say we are in general a more progressively liberal state, we don't have a death penalty but we do have Conceal Carry Permits, We have had a Mostly Republican Senate and Governor but almost always go blue in general elections.

If, like you said, it is an issue of culture and public perception, the only way to change is via government regulation. We had guns in Australia, we firmly believed (the white settlers) that there was nothing wrong with killing the indigenous population. That is representative of the culture and perception of one context, whereas now in general the Australian population has a drastically different perception.

[Wildtree]

25 years lol. 5+ in like 10 honestly.

Would you count public strip mall shootings into shootings? We've had in the past what 12-13 years at least AT LEAST 7 school shootings, it's much higher than that, but those are the big ones I remember. Then you have the kid who killed his gay class mate because he hit on him. The kid who killed his friend in school just because he wanted to kill

He was the one claiming that the biggest mass murder executed with guns happened outside the USA, despite the existing anti-gun laws there....
I think he means Norway. Norway had one single case of mass murder within the last 30 years....
The USA count is at the moment at 61 mass murder cases.
In most cases the guns used have been in legal possession of the killer.

One can twist it like they want.. The fact remains.. Weapon possession has to be controlled.
That guy Smith, guys like him should never be allowed to have a gun in the first place. Proper evaluation would bring such nutcases to daylight.
Sure, there will always be an incident. No one is naive enough to think that taking guns out of wild circulation, as it is the case in the USA, solves all the problems.
All countries with anti-gun laws have gun violence too. But the extent is the difference.
Less guns - less gun violence.

[Rukentuts]

Wait what. You're defending the one you're arguing with now, trying to pin me on saying i think it's cool to kill people under the term "reasonable force"?

The "reasonable force" statute does not include deadly force under MN law, hence why subsection 065 says it.

[Doctor Amadeus]

What part of "609.065 JUSTIFIABLE TAKING OF LIFE. - The intentional taking of the life of another is not authorized by section 609.06" do you not comprehend?

And what part of this mans home being invaded and this man, taking a gun and hiding in his basement waiting it out as the only thing he probably could do, how is that INTENTIONALLY taking a life?



He didn't chase them down, there wasn't a struggle, did he stroll past these kids in a part and put a gun to their heads as a last resort for them walking on his lawn as they took the scenic route to and fro?


What part of that do YOU not Comprehend, and why you cite the only part of the law that supports your argument whilst ignoring other factors such as the clear Fact THESE TWO BROKE IN TO THIS MANS HOME, that is why they are dead period.

[Sealed Shut]

I think that most of us are in agreement that, from what we know, the killing of the boy was justified by the law. The girl, and the manner in which she was executed, is the matter held in contention.

---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 05:01 PM ----------



For being shot at the first time, not the execution. He stepped over the lines of self defense when he finished her off.

except the person i replied to thinks that we should just hide in a closet and hope for the best.

[Themius]

but you cant really think a person should have to barricade themselves into a room and just allow someone to have their way with your shit can you? what if they decide to get rid of witnesses, etc? there is a reason that night time burglary sentences are much harsher than day time, because of the vastly increased potential for conflict, initiated by either party

I did this in the past. I polled Europeans and Americans. Most Europeans said they would secure their family, call the cops, stay in a room and wait for them to come, because they valued their life and body and didn't want to risk it and also didn't see the point in trying to kill them for taking just stuff. The most popular answers, including that. Were hide and wait till cops. Secure family then get a knife and threaten the thief, AFTER calling the cops.

I posed this same questions to Americans and by far, BY FARRRRR. The thing most said was kill them, they broke into your house to take your stuff and you work hard for your stuff so no one should have a right to take it, shoot them, shoot to maim but if you kill them, so be it, they were a thief anyway.

[Rukentuts]

And what part of this mans home being invaded and this man, taking a gun and hiding in his basement waiting it out as the only thing he probably could do, how is that INTENTIONALLY taking a life?

Firing shots into their skulls is intentionally taking a life. In addition, the police believe that in no way does a wounded teenager pose a risk of grave bodily harm or death to the actor.

[Deleted]

I think that most of us are in agreement that, from what we know, the killing of the boy was justified by the law. The girl, and the manner in which she was executed, is the matter held in contention.

---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 05:01 PM ----------



For being shot at the first time, not the execution. He stepped over the lines of self defense when he finished her off.

The final shot was out of mercy,but you don't seem to understand that?

[Rukentuts]

What part of that do YOU not Comprehend, and why you cite the only part of the law that supports your argument whilst ignoring other factors such as the clear Fact THESE TWO BROKE IN TO THIS MANS HOME, that is why they are dead period.

I cite only the laws that apply, because you seemingly don't know how to read MN statutes.

[Themius]

And what part of this mans home being invaded and this man, taking a gun and hiding in his basement waiting it out as the only thing he probably could do, how is that INTENTIONALLY taking a life?



He didn't chase them down, there wasn't a struggle, did he stroll past these kids in a part and put a gun to their heads as a last resort for them walking on his lawn as they took the scenic route to and fro?


What part of that do YOU not Comprehend, and why you cite the only part of the law that supports your argument whilst ignoring other factors such as the clear Fact THESE TWO BROKE IN TO THIS MANS HOME, that is why they are dead period.

So, then he shot the girl multiple times, dragged her over to the boys body, and his gun jammed so he went and got another gun, placed it under her chin, and took relish in a clean kill, that was all perfectly fine with you?

Oh fuck me, this guys gone mad if he seriously thinks THAT is justifiable.

IT'S WHY HE'S IN FUCKING CUSTODY WITH A HEFTY BAIL OF 2M!