Hello, I'm an American Gun owner.

[Deleted]

I keep a bazooka under my bed, just in case.

[Atrea]

lol, try living in Socal, mexico, Africa, Chicago, any poverty stricken enviorment in the world.

Go running around all happy and carefree, see how that works out for you.

I live in Vancouver. East Hastings Street is commonly referred to as "the poorest postal code in North America".
It is a several-kilometer long stretch of, essentially, homeless people and drug users.

I've walked through there occasionally, at night, alone; and while I may have been harassed (typically just hit up for spare change), I never felt like I was in any danger. I'm alive (obviously). I was not armed.

You are paranoid.

[Deleted]

Anything is bad when used irresponsibly.

This is the biggest problem with guns and why I'm against them.

It's all very well to say "used responsibly they're fine" - one problem with that, there are plenty of idiots out there who don't use them responsibly.

You also have the crime element of guns, to which the usual response from non-gun owners is to get a gun in order to protect themselves (understandable), however in doing so you allow the aforementioned idiots to also own one.

The whole "one-up" situation (you bring fists, so I'll bring a switch blade, so you bring a handgun, so I'll bring a shotgun) spirals out of control and eventually you have some real idiots with some seriously harmful firepower in their hands.

Ultimately the whole situation could be avoided by not allowing them, outside of trained personel (e.g specially trained police units, armed forces etc) who's mental well being is usually, to some extent, monitored.

If it wasn't for all the iresponsible morons out there I'd probably be okay with guns, but there's no system that guarantees that won't happen, so I'd rather not have them in the hands of civilians.

(Please note with my remarks above, I'm not stating all gun owners are idiots. There are many guns owners that are responsible, keep them locked away and would only ever use them to defend against an equal force, my problem is with the idiots that own guns).

[Raidenx]

No one has ever committed a crime until they do. Everyone is of sound mind until they aren't.

Your paranoia-fueled peace of mind is not worth my safety.

You act like America isnt a safe place. It is. You just believe the propaganda and sensationalized media. I already pointed out that the odds of getting killed by a gun are lower than dying in a car crash or from alcohol yet you act as if blood is painting the street red.

I noticed Canadians are a lot more stuck up and condescending than Americans. I say this as a former outsider. Let people be. You can be smug in vancouver all you want.

[Atrea]

You can't get handguns in the UK or Canada, and can get arrested for killing an armed burglar. We know the odds of us having to use our guns, even in self defense, are low. We just enjoy FREEDOM. Things like this make me proud to call America my adopted home. It goes back to Americans rebelling against the crown, taking things into their own hands, and being people of action. They're always out front. You can call it being paranoid and cynical but I call it being prepared. I'm sure the people in Germany would have loved their weapons in 1939. If the native Americans had guns perhaps they would have been better off. The state I live in has more guns per capita than Canada and less crime. There is no correlation between gun ownership and crime. Nearly all gun crime happens in the inner cities where poor people live. These people don't exist in Canada. There are poor people in Canada too, but theyre different.

You enjoy the 'freedom' to end another person's life if they violate you in some way?

I enjoy the freedom to not have my life ended at another person's whim.

[Gamdwelf]

I've watched trailer park boys, there is constant gun violence in canada.

[Neurodilation]

It is precisely this attitude that has most of us puzzled.

I can't speak for everywhere else, but here in Canada, we don't live in fear like this. In fact, by our standards, you all seem a little paranoid.
We don't feel the need to be armed in order to 'protect our home, family and self'. It's not that we rely on the police - we understand that they are, as you said (paraphrasing here), not going to appear out of thin air in a crisis - it's that we don't seem to feel some omnipresent danger.

That's great for you. Unfortunately, a lot of us in America live in areas of high violence and crime. So, to speak from personal experience, it's not paranoia when murders happen in my city every night. It's not paranoia when drive-by's go down just blocks from where I live. It's not paranoia when I personally know a few people who have been mugged at gunpoint and have almost been in those positions myself a few times.

I don't think that is a realistic fear. We're talking about an infinitesimally small likelihood that it would save your life, versus the significantly higher likelihood that the gun would lead to tragedy. There is a very real and alarmingly high number of gun owners (or their families) who are hurt and/or killed by accident with their own firearms. There are other tragedies all across the United States, where someone got so pissed off, that an otherwise law-abiding and normal citizen took it upon themselves to fire a gun - because when they felt threatened, their first reaction was to shoot first and ask questions later.

You really can't comment on how likely anything is without sources to back up your claims. You make the assumption that there are just soooo many more people hurting themselves accidentally with guns than those who have ever defended or deterred violence with guns, but you have no way to validate that statement. If your only source is hearsay and sensationalist news, you're likely to never have a clear picture either considering that those sources tend to focus on the negative to draw more attention, viewers, and ratings. I can promise you there are tons of cases you never hear about but could find by doing some research.]

You are not safer having guns for protection; you are less safe.

I disagree.

[Deleted]

lol, try living in Socal, mexico, Africa, Chicago, any poverty stricken enviorment in the world.

Go running around all happy and carefree, see how that works out for you.

Yeah, and a gun will make everything right and everything safer to you.

Guns are the solution!

This is why every person needs Matrix bullet dodging skills, it would make everyone be able to defend themselves.

If everyone was like that, I wouldn't mind, no, I'm joking, I still would mind.

[Atrea]

You act like America isnt a safe place. It is. You just believe the propaganda and sensationalized media. I already pointed out that the odds of getting killed by a gun are lower than dying in a car crash or from alcohol yet you act as if blood is painting the street red.

No, I believe what I see with my own eyes. A forum full of posters (who admittedly, are probably a bunch of teens who have internet tough guy syndrome) who claim they're okay with "shoot first, ask questions later" as their creedo.

I see countless cases of someone being shot because of this philosophy. A kid comes home late at night, his father thinks he's an intruder - gets blown away. A guy sees some black kid in the neighbourhood - calls the cops; cops say "don't pursue" but he does anyway. Ends up shooting the kid dead. Some guy walks by a group of kids listening to loud music in their car. Doesn't like it too much; gets "big man with a gun" syndrome, and starts mouthing off. Situation escalates to the point he unloads his gun into the car, killing one of the kids.

It isn't propaganda or sensationalized media. These are people's lives being ended because your countrymen demonstrate, time and again, that you cannot trust them with something as dangerous as a firearm. The average person's judgement is just not trustworthy enough.

---------- Post added 2012-11-28 at 12:37 PM ----------

You act like America isnt a safe place. It is. You just believe the propaganda and sensationalized media. I already pointed out that the odds of getting killed by a gun are lower than dying in a car crash or from alcohol yet you act as if blood is painting the street red.

I noticed Canadians are a lot more stuck up and condescending than Americans. I say this as a former outsider. Let people be. You can be smug in vancouver all you want.

That's great for you. Unfortunately, a lot of us in America live in areas of high violence and crime. So, to speak from personal experience, it's not paranoia when murders happen in my city every night. It's not paranoia when drive-by's go down just blocks from where I live. It's not paranoia when I personally know a few people who have been mugged at gunpoint and have almost been in those positions myself a few times.

Make up your minds. It can't be both ways.

[Porcell]

I don't think that is a realistic fear. We're talking about an infinitesimally small likelihood that it would save your life, versus the significantly higher likelihood that the gun would lead to tragedy. There is a very real and alarmingly high number of gun owners (or their families) who are hurt and/or killed by accident with their own firearms.

Stats from 2009.
31,347 Firearms Deaths
-554 Unintentional (accidental deaths)
-18,735 Suicide
-11,493 Homicide
-232 Undetermined
-333 Legal Intervention

41,592 Poisoning Deaths
-31,758 Unintentional
-6,398 Suicide

15,645 Suffocation Deaths
-5,939 Unintentional
-9,000 Suicide

25,562 Fall Deaths
-24,792 Unintentional
-685 Suicide

Source; Table 18.

Start campaigning against stairs and chemicals and pillows before you start banging the pans about accidental gun deaths.

[Atrea]

You really can't comment on how likely anything is without sources to back up your claims. You make the assumption that there are just soooo many more people hurting themselves accidentally with guns than those who have ever defended or deterred violence with guns, but you have no way to validate that statement. If your only source is hearsay and sensationalist news, you're likely to never have a clear picture either considering that those sources tend to focus on the negative to draw more attention, viewers, and ratings. I can promise you there are tons of cases you never hear about but could find by doing some research.]

I have posted them in threads like this before. Others have too.

I'm sure your google-fu is strong enough to either find one of my posts on this forum with them, or find them yourself.

[Raidenx]

You enjoy the 'freedom' to end another person's life if they violate you in some way?

I enjoy the freedom to not have my life ended at another person's whim.

Thats a strawman arguement. You arent free to kill anyone unless they put you in danger. Youre damned right I will shoot someone who invades my house if they were a clear threat to me or my family. I doubt it would happen, but thats what I would do.

[Beazy]

If you own a gun because you want to protect yourself should the government ever come to take away your rights, then I think you need to have your gun taken away.

Anyone that crazy is mentally unfit to own a gun.

In the history of planet Earth, there has never been a Large and Powerful government that did NOT become corrupt and tyrannical. So your comment shows us all that it might be a good idea for you to stay in school and take a few history classes before you venture out into the REAL world.

[Raidenx]

No, I believe what I see with my own eyes. A forum full of posters (who admittedly, are probably a bunch of teens who have internet tough guy syndrome) who claim they're okay with "shoot first, ask questions later" as their creedo.

I see countless cases of someone being shot because of this philosophy. A kid comes home late at night, his father thinks he's an intruder - gets blown away. A guy sees some black kid in the neighbourhood - calls the cops; cops say "don't pursue" but he does anyway. Ends up shooting the kid dead. Some guy walks by a group of kids listening to loud music in their car. Doesn't like it too much; gets "big man with a gun" syndrome, and starts mouthing off. Situation escalates to the point he unloads his gun into the car, killing one of the kids.

It isn't propaganda or sensationalized media. These are people's lives being ended because your countrymen demonstrate, time and again, that you cannot trust them with something as dangerous as a firearm. The average person's judgement is just not trustworthy enough.

---------- Post added 2012-11-28 at 12:37 PM ----------





Make up your minds. It can't be both ways.

Yes it can. Each State is different. 95% of America is just as safe as it is anywhere else. Just dont go to Detroit, D.C, or The south side of chicago.

[Neurodilation]

Make up your minds. It can't be both ways.

My mind is made up. America has areas that are safe and areas that are unsafe. Where I am, crime rates are very high and happen in close proximity to places I frequently find myself.

Consider that our environment might be a little different from the world you've experienced and then maybe you'll begin to understand why some of us choose to protect ourselves by being law-abiding gun owners who are not the lunatics being paraded all over national news.

[Atrea]

Stats from 2009.
31,347 Firearms Deaths
-554 Unintentional (accidental deaths)
-18,735 Suicide
-11,493 Homicide
-232 Undetermined
-333 Legal Intervention

41,592 Poisoning Deaths
-31,758 Unintentional
-6,398 Suicide

15,645 Suffocation Deaths
-5,939 Unintentional
-9,000 Suicide

25,562 Fall Deaths
-24,792 Unintentional
-685 Suicide

Source; Table 18.

Start campaigning against stairs and chemicals and pillows before you start banging the pans about accidental gun deaths.

Look at the two numbers I highlighted.

554 accidental deaths. 333 from 'legal intervention' (i.e. 'saving yourself with a gun'.)

Your argument is trite and illogical, but thank you for posting stats that I've already posted, so that an above poster can read them without having to google them first.

---------- Post added 2012-11-28 at 12:41 PM ----------

Thats a strawman arguement. You arent free to kill anyone unless they put you in danger. Youre damned right I will shoot someone who invades my house if they were a clear threat to me or my family. I doubt it would happen, but thats what I would do.

Statistically speaking you are far more likely to accidentally shoot a member of your family, or have the gun used against you.

That's what is called an 'illusion of security'.

[Doktor Faustus]

So the people who founded our country were crazy and mentally unstable?[COLOR="red"]

That was the 18th century, and the fear of the British/Canadians/French/Indians/Spanish/etc invading made it seem legitimate.

Also, the USA is a nation born out of war and conquest, but there is no more land on your piece of the continent up for grabs, chill out.

Read Atrea's post above, it's very informative and makes some valid points, which if more USA citizens took on board, could break the cycle of paranoid fear.

[Raidenx]

No, I believe what I see with my own eyes. A forum full of posters (who admittedly, are probably a bunch of teens who have internet tough guy syndrome) who claim they're okay with "shoot first, ask questions later" as their creedo.

I see countless cases of someone being shot because of this philosophy. A kid comes home late at night, his father thinks he's an intruder - gets blown away. A guy sees some black kid in the neighbourhood - calls the cops; cops say "don't pursue" but he does anyway. Ends up shooting the kid dead. Some guy walks by a group of kids listening to loud music in their car. Doesn't like it too much; gets "big man with a gun" syndrome, and starts mouthing off. Situation escalates to the point he unloads his gun into the car, killing one of the kids.

It isn't propaganda or sensationalized media. These are people's lives being ended because your countrymen demonstrate, time and again, that you cannot trust them with something as dangerous as a firearm. The average person's judgement is just not trustworthy enough.

Look at the actual facts before you raise your pedastal even further up. Porcell posted them. Im sure you know basic math. What are the odds that something bad will happen to you in this country of 310,000,000 people? 4,000 non gang related deaths out of 310,000,000 people? What are the OBJECTIVE ODDS?

You hear of these things because America is so big.

[Atrea]

My mind is made up. America has areas that are safe and areas that are unsafe. Where I am, crime rates are very high and happen in close proximity to places I frequently find myself.

Consider that our environment might be a little different from the world you've experienced and then maybe you'll begin to understand why some of us choose to protect ourselves by being law-abiding gun owners who are not the lunatics being paraded all over national news.

Except, the line between a law-abiding gun owner, and a lunatic is not as difficult to cross as you let on.

Time and again, there are cases where an otherwise law-abiding gun owner gets pissed off, and decides to cross that line.

I've always said, the difference between you (and me) and a raving lunatic is just one bad day.

[Gamdwelf]

Look at the two numbers I highlighted.

554 accidental deaths. 333 from 'legal intervention' (i.e. 'saving yourself with a gun'.)

Your argument is trite and illogical, but thank you for posting stats that I've already posted, so that an above poster can read them without having to google them first.

---------- Post added 2012-11-28 at 12:41 PM ----------



Statistically speaking you are far more likely to accidentally shoot a member of your family, or have the gun used against you.

That's what is called an 'illusion of security'.

no im pretty sure legal intervention is when the police step in and kill somebody because they are harming somebody.