Parents who refuse to immunise their kids should have their children taken away

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

The risk of spreading measles is not as big of a risk, in my mind, to the loss in religious freedom. I am an atheist but I treasure the ability to believe in God. I see religion as a net good to society.

Do you know what measles can do to a person and how contagious the disease is?

[igame]

Everybody should have immunization against the big 5 (Polio, Small Pox, Rubella, Mumps, Measles). These are highly contagious illnesses that can permanently disfigure a person and/or kill them, and they can spread like wildfire. Furthermore, young children should get Chicken Pox, as it is an inconvenience at that age, and very dangerous in adults. We have all but succeeded in eradicating Small Pox and Polio in Europe and the USA through vaccination. We need to find vaccinations that can be administered to those that are either too weak for the standard vaccinations, or are allergic to them. I will have absolutely no reservations about vaccinating any kids that I have.

Child mortality rates sunk dramatically when Jenner developed the Small Pox vaccination in the late 18th century. By the year 1900, kids no longer had a 2/3 chance of dying before their 3rd birthday. That change happened over a mere 70 years between the introduction of that one vaccine and the "invention" of pasteurization.

Vaccinations are not just to protect the individual, but to protect society as a whole. If we didn't have them, we would experience pandemics in the magnitude of the Black Death of 1348-1349 every few decades.

This here is what we call empirical evidence of treatments that actually work. People who shove homoeopathy and other alternate medicine down others and especially down their kid's throats are basically saying all this scientific evidence and data is make belief because that crone in the corner told them that wearing an amulet made of owl feathers and pigeon droppings will ward off polio.

---------- Post added 2012-11-28 at 11:51 PM ----------

Homeopathic treatment itself doesn't actually work, but it does have a strong placebo effect. Homeopathic doctors also spend more time talking to their patients and that boosts the morale of the patient and improves their mental health; sometimes we just need a good listener, we are a social species after all.

Yea...righto...let's get a bunch of listeners then, why are we spending tons on trying to find immunisations/cures for cancers and aids and what not.

[Magpai]

Yes, take away kids who don't get immunized, but let people who have kids they can't hope to afford keep theirs.

[zorkuus]

The body of competent medical evidence would like to contradict your statement. Homeopathic medicine works. So do sugar pills. Unfortunately it is unlawful to proscribe patients sugar pills. However, it is legal to suggest they try homeopathic remedies.

It "works" as a placebo. And a placebo effect doesn't work on everything, it won't cure cancer for example. And no, homeopathic "medine" isn't legal everywhere around the world.

[Falos]

Children are not possessions. They can be informed and offered their own decisions LONG before eighteen years of age.

Admittedly, there's a window of infancy where the decisions must be made on the child's behalf. I did hear of one vegetarian mother who would prepare and serve meat for her daughter, who I don't think was older than four. At that age, I can understand pushing practical beliefs onto the kid, especially the types that are general nutritional/PETA stuff and can handle a random piece in their salad, not the flaunty ones who raise a stink after learning their silverware has been used on meat before.

[igame]

Science hasn't proven homeopathy to be voodoo... sweeping statements gosh.

Furthermore to be considered logical, rational or even scientific minded is not to follow heavily lobbied government or Doctors on the receiving end of commission courtesy of pharmaceutical industry. It is your own scientific inquiry and empirical experience, and I can safely say that I never visit the doctor. I am far healthier than all the people I know, I never get a cold, I have a full head of long thick healthy hair, don't take any drugs or medication of ANY kind am fit. Alot of people I know that had MMR immunisation have developed allergies to certain foods, are losing their hair (although this could be genetic), are weak, dull witted and generally lap up everything considered to be good for them because they are told it is and doesn't require any real effort on their part.

I quote Hippocrates. 'Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food'. Eat well and you will be healthy, fit and sound of mind well into your 90's. Rely on modern medicine and you will more than likely have a dependant immune system popping pills for the rest of your life.

In Japan people live longer than most nations in the World. Out of the longest living they found doctors or visits to the hospital were non existent, neither was alcohol or unnatural processed foods in their diet.

The human body is well equipped to deal with dis-ease, and should be supported naturally. Introducing synthetic artificial 'solutions' undermines the immune system and will make you genetically weaker as you pass your weak genes onto your children.

The hackney'd argument of what about the Black Plague? etc. That is down to personal hygiene not medication. The standard of living was so poor disease was rife, in countries were bathing was routine disease was unheard of.

I could go on and show you how life expectancy has increased since the invent of modern medicine. I could also show you that the planet we live in, the food we eat and basically all other environmental factor have changed a lot since the time when Hippocrates made that statement.
Human body is no where near as well constructed as people made it out to be. It is fragile and vulnerable. If your argument had any basis the life expectancy and number of children who actually made it to 12 should have been pretty good a couple of hundred years back. Also, not everyone in Japan lives to be hundred and kudos on picking one nation out of the world to try prove something which can not be scientifically proven. I present you this argument, a child vaccinated properly will not get small pox or measles or polio be the child from Japan or elsewhere.

[Itisamuh]

Which just proves once again, that Religion is the scource of evil in this world, and as long as it exists, true peace can never be achieved


Infracted.

What an ignorant statement.

[Shiny212]

Parents should never impose whatever health-risking belief they have on their children. Doing so should be a criminal offense and punished severely.

[Deleted]

The body of competent medical evidence would like to contradict your statement. Homeopathic medicine works. So do sugar pills. Unfortunately it is unlawful to proscribe patients sugar pills. However, it is legal to suggest they try homeopathic remedies.

Homeopathic medicine does not work. You should support your statement with sources. Even if it "works" by placebo effect, it's not the "medicine" that's working.
That placebo works is also somewhat debatable. Some times it does, some times it doesn't. It's so irregular that it cannot be stated as a fact.

---------- Post added 2012-11-29 at 01:08 AM ----------

What an ignorant statement.

I wonder if anyone who says that atheism is the source of all evil would be infracted. Probably not.

That we need to "protect" forums from discussions about it really speaks volumes about it. It's not up for discussion, because discussion cannot be had. You cannot reason with someone who never used reason to reach their conclussions.

[Deleted]

just to put it out there, some people also distrust the pharmaceutics industry.

[tombstoner139]

i would counter this question with another question.

Should parents and doctors who subject kids to high doses of radiation and other toxic chemotherapy materials be put in jail for child abuse.

Think of how much damage is done to the body, but it could save their lives. it could also liquify their brains. This actually happens because the established
course of treatment for some types of low survival cancers is ultra high radiation. The people who make chemo drugs and rad gear don't want to explore alternative
treatment options cause it could kill there bottom line. This man has found something and has been persecuted by the medical drug establishment http://www.burzynskiclinic.com/

[Lological]

There's a pretty good film discussing the pro's and con's of vaccination. With some pretty moving interviews with people whose lives have been adversely effected by vaccines.

check out the trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulmEGbwQsOU

[Magpai]

I wonder if anyone who says that atheism is the source of all evil would be infracted. Probably not.

That we need to "protect" forums from discussions about it really speaks volumes about it. It's not up for discussion, because discussion cannot be had. You cannot reason with someone who never used reason to reach their conclussions.

I'm sure they would be infracted, but anyway, there's no reasoning behind "religion is the source of all evil", it's just inflammatory, ignorant and derailing.

[MasterHamster]

There's a pretty good film discussing the pro's and con's of vaccination. With some pretty moving interviews with people whose lives have been adversely effected by vaccines.

check out the trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulmEGbwQsOU

Hard to argue about the positive effects of vaccinations when they PREVENT outburts of diseases.

This woman is putting her children at risk because of her delusions. Reminds me of the poor boy who had a tumour literally eating his face away while his retarded mother, being a jehovas witness, refused operation due to the need of blood transfusion.

Oh by the way, homeopathy is a complete scam.

[igame]

i would counter this question with another question.

Should parents and doctors who subject kids to high doses of radiation and other toxic chemotherapy materials be put in jail for child abuse.

Think of how much damage is done to the body, but it could save their lives. it could also liquify their brains. This actually happens because the established
course of treatment for some types of low survival cancers is ultra high radiation. The people who make chemo drugs and rad gear don't want to explore alternative
treatment options cause it could kill there bottom line. This man has found something and has been persecuted by the medical drug establishment http://www.burzynskiclinic.com/

"Should parents and doctors who subject kids to high doses of radiation and other toxic chemotherapy materials be put in jail for child abuse"

I am sorry but I do not know anyone who does this and I am pretty sure if anyone was locking up their kids in a room with uranium pills they would be in pretty deep shit if found out.

[Deleted]

*Snip*

EDIT: I mixxed up Homeopathy with Naturopathy, I'm sorry to have confused people!

[Spraxle]

How does not having your child 'immunized' put others at risk? If child 'A' got all their supposedly wonderful shots and child 'B' does not, how is 'A' going to be hurt by 'B'?


Wait... you mean child 'B' has no impact what so ever on child 'A'? That's mind boggling for so many people. Course the internet is full of self important people who have no clue what they're putting into their bodies and what it does. Guess the brainwashing is working for some stuff!

[Zigzagzoom]

i would counter this question with another question.

Should parents and doctors who subject kids to high doses of radiation and other toxic chemotherapy materials be put in jail for child abuse.

Think of how much damage is done to the body, but it could save their lives. it could also liquify their brains. This actually happens because the established
course of treatment for some types of low survival cancers is ultra high radiation. The people who make chemo drugs and rad gear don't want to explore alternative
treatment options cause it could kill there bottom line. This man has found something and has been persecuted by the medical drug establishment http://www.burzynskiclinic.com/

I'm curious about these brain liquefying treatments.

[Holyhands]

A good reason of why parents do prevent their children from getting immunizations is conspiracy theories. Websites like Natural New, Prison Planet, Alex Jones, and many other conspiracies believe that vaccinations don't work and are used by the government to "dumb down" the population(with fluoride in the water). There are actually quite a few that subscribe to such conspiracy theories, unfortunately. And in the case of Alex Jones, I think he as millions broadcasting to his radio show.

[MasterHamster]

Hey man, Usual medicines are isolates and synthesis of the herbs used by homeopathy If I'm not mistaken. I think you might not be well informed about Homeopathy. I wont say it will cure everything, but If you keep a good diet, and face a bodily disfunction. You get perscribed a certain herb for example that has a stimulating effect on the glands/intestines that seem to be disrupted. So the healing process is all done by the body, only the Homeopathic 'medicine' stimulates the body to do so. its a whole different take on medicine.

I how ever do not contradict that there may be products that are based on placebo. Its just that I'm a 100% sure that doesnt go for all Homeopathic treatments.

Homeopathic remedies are extremely dilated substances, more or less nothing but water.
There is no "active ingredient", whenever it works, it's due to other factors.

Homeopathy is the astrology of medicine.