There's no need to QQ about Chaos Bolts... (pic)

[Buxton McGraff]

Yeah it doesn't have a 5-6 secs travel time or anything

The travel time is less than 2 seconds actually.

[asb]

If you let a demo warlock build enough demonic power to reach a point where he can pop meta with all his cds and deal that much damage with one Chaos Wave, then yeah, you weren't the best of players...

My €0.02, as a demo pvp player, who knows how much hard it is to build demonic power while people are focusing you down.

I could see that being the case if you actually had to soul fire or even shadow bolt to build your fury, but you can get there entirely with instant spells. It certainly takes longer, but all that matters is setting up around that point anyway. Your kills are only going to come every 2min when you have dark soul; more frequent meta phases than that really don't do much for you. Besides, you're basically saying if you achieve the miracle feat of capping your fury you deserve to win, which is ridiculous.

The bottom line is demo lock burst is as strong as burst gets, entirely instant, and AOE just for good measure. The main counter was dispelable dark soul, but apparently having a way out is unacceptable. Add to that that your class has instant ranged full CC on a negligible CD and it's pretty safe to say there's something wrong with warlocks.

[squid]

Had a warlock do this to me in twos, its really hard to avoid because the cooldowns all go and then this instant at the same time, hit me and my partner for ~250k each. We managed to win because we were at full health when it hit and he used all his cooldowns in that one move essentially, but I wouldn't really call it balanced.

I do however think Chaos Bolt is fine, its the cooldown stacking that is the issue. Use trink, Dark Soul, full embers, and Unending resolve (not to mention other stuff like skull banner in the mix) many classes just cant combat that even with their cooldowns up, and half the time you are stunned before the chain begins so theres no chance.

[Lulbalance]

It's broken, no one can really find any way to argue against it sensibly.

the aura's were a bigger deal then the dmg.. everything does crazy dmg right now.

how much dmg can your warrior do in 3 secs with all cd's popped and 3 stack, obel? how much can a mage do with on-use and a bomb and a deep? a shammy with ascendance? list goes on.

i know my feral with everything popped and 3 secs on a naked target with full bleeds up would do over 200k.

dude had no defenses up..was probable close to need buff wise. etc etc.

if its broken.. then there more abilities broke then fine. i dont like it either.. but it's not broken relative to most of the garbage in the game atm.

[Azgraal]

you're basically saying if you achieve the miracle feat of capping your fury you deserve to win, which is ridiculous.

It is not as ludacris as it may sound. If you let a rogue keep you stunned, you deserve to lose. If you let the healer un-cc'ed and free to heal his partner, you deserve to lose, if you can't maintain distance from a warrior, you deserve to lose. If you can't cc a demo warlock or LoS him or disable his demon to slow as much as possibly his demonic power generation, you deserve to lose.

[Reith]

A team stacks close enough so an AoE attack gets all of them. Yup, blame the warlock.

Stop posting in this topic. You are not knowledgeable enough about PVP.

[Azgraal]

Stop posting in this topic. You are not knowledgeable enough about PVP.

And what do you base yourself on? My lack of arena achievements?...

I do know what i am talking about, and i'll ask you not to post just to say things like that xD

[Nicola]

Had a warlock do this to me in twos, its really hard to avoid because the cooldowns all go and then this instant at the same time, hit me and my partner for ~250k each. We managed to win because we were at full health when it hit and he used all his cooldowns in that one move essentially, but I wouldn't really call it balanced.

I do however think Chaos Bolt is fine, its the cooldown stacking that is the issue. Use trink, Dark Soul, full embers, and Unending resolve (not to mention other stuff like skull banner in the mix) many classes just cant combat that even with their cooldowns up, and half the time you are stunned before the chain begins so theres no chance.

Stun, fear, LoS, plenty of defensive cooldowns, it all works. Especially when you and your partners are given 3 seconds time to either stop it, or to prepare for it landing.
Same for chaoswave, you know when cooldowns are ready and the warlock will pop it as soon as you are out of position or stacked up. Again, you got a ~2-4 sec time to avoid it.
Sure you can be feared, silenced or stunned, does that mean you get one shotted by it? No, have your healer pop a cooldown on you or just dispell the fear so you can pop something yourself, have a warrior pop rallying cry, so many things you can do.
All a demonology warlock has is 2 fully empowered chaos waves every 2 minutes. You know more or less when they come so when you get caught by em, you and the rest of your team screwed up.

Every class stacking up his cooldowns and using their strongest spells will kill you pretty much instantly.
The difference is, you don't allow mages to hit frostbomb on you, you don't allow warriors to get in range long enough, or to get stacks of tfb, you don't allow a destruction warlock to land a chaosbolt, etc. when you are not using defensive cooldowns.
The problem with everyone complaining is, that you allow the demonology to land his chaoswaves on you without popping anything defensive.

I haven't died a single time to just chaos waves in arena,always a combination from waves + the burst from someone else and that's at 2.4k+ rating. So really, people dying to it are either badly out of position, badly geared or wasted all their defensive cooldowns on a frostmage/warrior/dk/spriest/hunter...

[asb]

It is not as ludacris as it may sound. If you let a rogue keep you stunned, you deserve to lose. If you let the healer un-cc'ed and free to heal his partner, you deserve to lose, if you can't maintain distance from a warrior, you deserve to lose. If you can't cc a demo warlock or LoS him or disable his demon to slow as much as possibly his demonic power generation, you deserve to lose.

Healers sit uncontrolled all the time, warriors are going to connect with something, and a demo lock is going to get into a burst phase at some point. Games are just too long now for that to not happen, unless you play a group of mongos that blow swifty macros for their first globals and you can't handle it.

I haven't died a single time to just chaos waves in arena,always a combination from waves + the burst from someone else and that's at 2.4k+ rating. So really, people dying to it are either badly out of position, badly geared or wasted all their defensive cooldowns on a frostmage/warrior/dk/spriest/hunter...

I don't think I've ever been soloed by a warlock either; that doesn't mean they're properly balanced. "Survivable" is a prerequisite of balance, not the definition.

[Reith]

And what do you base yourself on? My lack of arena achievements?...

I do know what i am talking about, and i'll ask you not to post just to say things like that xD

Everything I've read you say is a gigantic indication that you have no idea what you're talking about. I do not need to look at your armory.

[Deleted]

When you LoS the warlock before it lands, it does no damage....

Haha, sigh.

[Azgraal]

Everything I've read you say is a gigantic indication that you have no idea what you're talking about. I do not need to look at your armory.

Im glad for you then

[ThackerSS]

There's some great theories in here on how to avoid it. None of them work fyi.

[aeir]

And what do you base yourself on? My lack of arena achievements?...

I do know what i am talking about, and i'll ask you not to post just to say things like that xD

Typical MMO Champ PVP hero, who has no experience at all, and is relentlessly defending something he has no clue about.

You seriously don't, and you're oblivious to actual facts.

Stun, fear, LoS, plenty of defensive cooldowns, it all works. Especially when you and your partners are given 3 seconds time to either stop it, or to prepare for it landing.
Same for chaoswave, you know when cooldowns are ready and the warlock will pop it as soon as you are out of position or stacked up. Again, you got a ~2-4 sec time to avoid it.
Sure you can be feared, silenced or stunned, does that mean you get one shotted by it? No, have your healer pop a cooldown on you or just dispell the fear so you can pop something yourself, have a warrior pop rallying cry, so many things you can do.
All a demonology warlock has is 2 fully empowered chaos waves every 2 minutes. You know more or less when they come so when you get caught by em, you and the rest of your team screwed up.

Every class stacking up his cooldowns and using their strongest spells will kill you pretty much instantly.
The difference is, you don't allow mages to hit frostbomb on you, you don't allow warriors to get in range long enough, or to get stacks of tfb, you don't allow a destruction warlock to land a chaosbolt, etc. when you are not using defensive cooldowns.
The problem with everyone complaining is, that you allow the demonology to land his chaoswaves on you without popping anything defensive.

I haven't died a single time to just chaos waves in arena,always a combination from waves + the burst from someone else and that's at 2.4k+ rating. So really, people dying to it are either badly out of position, badly geared or wasted all their defensive cooldowns on a frostmage/warrior/dk/spriest/hunter...

Sure, survive the first burst, second burst will surely get you, because at that time your defensive cooldowns will still be ticking, and he'll do as much damage as the first time.

Pop a rallying cry, lol.

[Deleted]

So easy to LoS an instant cast.. yes, yes it is.

Yeah it's really hard to figure out when he uses it (aka right after he jumps into demo).

If you los a demo lock in demo form, he can't do any dmg and is useless.

[Deleted]

Yeah it's really hard to figure out when he uses it (aka right after he jumps into demo).

If you los a demo lock in demo form, he can't do any dmg and is useless.

Ok, seeing your ilvl I guess you're a Pve'er.. Keep on being that, and stop talking about stuff you have no clue about, thanks.

[Nicola]

Typical MMO Champ PVP hero, who has no experience at all, and is relentlessly defending something he has no clue about.

You seriously don't, and you're oblivious to actual facts.


Sure, survive the first burst, second burst will surely get you, because at that time your defensive cooldowns will still be ticking, and he'll do as much damage as the first time.

Pop a rallying cry, lol.

In full malovent gear you have about 400k hp, a rallying cry gives you an extra 80k hp.
Considering the chance of 2 chaoswaves critting is about 1% ( I only have 11% crit in full malovent with t2 wep), and considering it does max 200k damage when using no defensives at all, a rallying cry will allow you to survive 2 waves. A single heal between the waves, a shield, or a single defensive cooldown will allow to survive the waves without to many problems.

Sure you can start whining someone else is hammering you already, but in that case the healer should already be focussing you, and you know dark soul is off cooldown and will be used whenever the warlock feels like you'll die from it.


Now the big question is, why are people suddenly whining about chaos wave after this patch?
Is it because dark soul can no longer be dispelled? AFAIK players at 1.5k rating lacked the skills to instantly dispel dark soul and would still take the massive crits to the face....

[Azgraal]

Typical MMO Champ PVP hero, who has no experience at all, and is relentlessly defending something he has no clue about.

You seriously don't, and you're oblivious to actual facts.

I know enough to back up what i say, i don't simply pull things out of my arse.

Yes, Chaos Wave hits hard, but i stand my ground, if you let a warlock get above 500 demonic power and do nothing to prevent it, you deserve to get that burst done on you.

And btw, Chaos Wave isn't LoS-able. If you're in range of the warlock when he casts it, you'll get it by Chaos Wave even if you hide behind something.

You want to know how to stop a demo warlock from building up enough demonic power?

- CC his pet for the duration of your next offensive
- make sure the healer wont be able to reach the warlock during the next step
- use whatever you can to lower the warlock's HP, it doesn't matter if you have to waste minor CDs; a demo warlock has just so many defenses, if you keep hitting him constantly it will be either die or pop an untimely meta. Soak whatever he throws at you, which will probably be just 1 Touch of Chaos without cds to back it and that's it, you get a warlock without demonic power and survival cds as a target.

Im not a "PVP Hero" but i DO know what i'm talking about. If only achievements are proof of someone's ability for you, go tell someone who cares.

[Nicola]

You want to know how to stop a demo warlock from building up enough demonic power?

- CC his pet for the duration of your next offensive

Or just keep killing his pet, making the warlock unable to shield until he has either used demonic rebirth or 200 fury to summon a new one.

[Pol-Kinabol]

Oh look, another baddie allowed a warlock to pop all his cooldowns and chaoswave without LoSing it or popping a defensive while his healer is being braindead and being slow on healing or popping a barkskin on you.

It's actually Ironbark, barkskin is only for self-cast.