Which race has Garrosh done the most damage to?

[Combatbutler]

and people say the war would end after MoP......

Does the ending of a war mean one nation will forgive the other? I don't think so.

[Dreknar20]

Does the ending of a war mean one nation will forgive the other? I don't think so.

but old grudges combined with new wounds....seems like grounds for more conflict than peace

Not that Im complaining, I fuckin balls out love this Alliance Horde war

[Combatbutler]

but old grudges combined with new wounds....seems like grounds for more conflict than peace

Not that Im complaining, I fuckin balls out love this Alliance Horde war

Sure there will be tensions, but it does not mean it will spark a new war any time soon.

[Dristereau]

Darkspear Trolls. Vol'jin attempted assassination and completely disregarded by Garrosh and the Horde who he considered his brothers. Then his people moved to Echo Isles due to Garrosh's way of ruling Orgrimmar, and now Occupation of their home by the Kor'kron. Can't see many positives for Trolls under Garrosh.

[Dreknar20]

Sure there will be tensions, but it does not mean it will spark a new war any time soon.

well probably not right away

But to me some Orcs may feel like the Germans did in post-WW1
Some will just be glad the fighting is over
But others may feel cheated, that they sacrifced blood, sweat, and tears for the Horde, and all they gained is a giant graveyard, and for them, the whole "stabbed in the back" thing has a buncha merit

[Immitis]

reputation wise? the orcs. actual stuff probably the trolls.

however while what he did with the trolls can be fixed and trust can be regained (albeit slowly) the orcs reputation has been damaged for a long time and reopened alot of wounds with the alliance

[Trassk]

I really have to laugh at those here now saying they agree about the shit Garrosh has caused to the orcs and the setback he has made to there race, when before several of you ignored it and pretended he was doing something right.
At least between WC3 right up to Wrath (yes, WHEN HE HAD THRALL AS WARCHIEF) The orcs felt like an awesome race that overcame there issues and were maturing as a race. they do not feel that way now, and it will take years for them to grow back.

[Madruga]

The Orcs no doubt, they are already paying for his crimes and will continue to do so long after he is gone. Garrosh utterly smashed all the work that Thrall had done, and is quite busy herding them back in the past to Warcraft 1 and 2. Utter shithead.

I was going to say Night Elfs, but I have to agree with this.

I hate Garrosh's Horde. I almost don't feel like doing the Dominance Offensive quests.

But I'll do them.

Because someone asked me to stay close to Garrosh...

[Justignoreme]

well probably not right away

But to me some Orcs may feel like the Germans did in post-WW1
Some will just be glad the fighting is over
But others may feel cheated, that they sacrifced blood, sweat, and tears for the Horde, and all they gained is a giant graveyard, and for them, the whole "stabbed in the back" thing has a buncha merit

Germany after WW1 was unfairly screwed over, big time. Orcs don't compare to WW1 Germany, they compare to WW2 Germany, in every sense, from the supremacist attitude, to the total war on the heels of a global catastrophe (was economic as opposed to natural disasters) and the fact that they already were defeated and punished once for their aggression and never learned from it.
Those Orcs, the ones who feel "cheated and disenfranchised" because they don't get to keep doing things the way they were doing them, after defeat, will likely be the ones dying in a last stand to defend Garrosh. Good riddance.

[Trassk]

Germany after WW1 was unfairly screwed over, big time. Orcs don't compare to WW1 Germany, they compare to WW2 Germany, in every sense, from the supremacist attitude, to the total war on the heels of a global catastrophe (was economic as opposed to natural disasters) and the fact that they already were defeated and punished once for their aggression and never learned from it.
Those Orcs, the ones who feel "cheated and disenfranchised" because they don't get to keep doing things the way they were doing them, after defeat, will likely be the ones dying in a last stand to defend Garrosh. Good riddance.

If I may correct, the Garrosh loving orcs are like those (lets not mince words here your talking about nazi's). There are still and will be many orcs that don't side with him.

The other races of the horde and the collective of orcs not sided with Garrosh, to held under his yolk of power though fear, are those who the horde will be after this ends.

The only question I have though is this, if the horde rebellion and alliance are meant to be killing off Garrosh's followers and (hoping still) killing Garrosh too, I wonder how this isn't meant to weaken the orcs as the hordes main body

[Justignoreme]

If I may correct, the Garrosh loving orcs are like those (lets not mince words here your talking about nazi's). There are still and will be many orcs that don't side with him.

Yes, there will be. Not every German went to the gallows after WWII, but many were charged, sentenced at Nuremberg and summarily executed, as they deserved, for what they had done. A whole lot lost their lives during the campaign to bring an end to the War though, their blood was on Hitler's hands, not the Allies.

[Trassk]

Yes, there will be. Not every German went to the gallows after WWII, but many were charged, sentenced at Nuremberg and summarily executed, as they deserved, for what they had done. A whole lot lost their lives during the campaign to bring an end to the War though, their blood was on Hitler's hands, not the Allies.

There were many germans who were also held under a yolk of fear by the nazi's, many who would not have wanted to be part of any war. Obviously there were those loyalists who followed Hitler's campaign willingly, but thats the ugly face of war. Its like when you see news reports of citizens in war torn third world countries, you can't blame an entire population for the acts of a cruel dictator and his army.

[Iracor]

Everyone wants to kill him, but who is it really personal for?

Vol'jin. If it weren't for having to maintain racial continuity within the game, the trolls would've left the Horde a long time ago.

You can be almost guaranteed that the final killing blow to Garrosh will be from Vol'jin.

I imagine he'll do a Lich King type ending where he incapacitates your raid group making you useless to stop him and when he thinks he's unstoppable Vol'jin will step out from the shadows and slit his throat.

[Scummer]

Really?
Because Night Elf lands are a lot closer to Horde territory, and was the source of a buncha tension conflict and what not.

Yet hasn't been lost or bared witness to any of the truly terrible acts of the Horde, not to mention how it's just one zone whereas the aggression against Humans is practically global.
Theramore and Southshore both were victims of terrible acts. The Humans were also also completely pushed out of Hillsbrad.

[Justignoreme]

There were many germans who were also held under a yolk of fear by the nazi's, many who would not have wanted to be part of any war. Obviously there were those loyalists who followed Hitler's campaign willingly, but thats the ugly face of war. Its like when you see news reports of citizens in war torn third world countries, you can't blame an entire population for the acts of a cruel dictator and his army.

No you can't. But in the case of the Orcs. The number of those who disagree and resist Garrosh are a tiny tiny minority, people like Thrall, Eitrigg and Saurfang. A whole lot only see the spin of supposed victories in war against the Alliance, but refuse to acknowledge or possibly don't know the incredible cost and the very very limited victories the orcs have actually had since they started the war. Then there are those that know full well what he's doing and what he's about and think it's great. The Kor'kron yes-men, the die-hard loyalists are dying hard now, but it's merely the cost of victory, in their eyes, by any and all means. A majority of the population, the civilians, well, we simply don't see them in the game. For either side.

[Deleted]

the Humans have felt the full brunt of Garrosh's campaign for sure. They are the most numerous of the Alliance's forces and have fought more of Garrosh's orcs than anyone. I also imagine that Stormwind is racking up the biggest bill for this war as well as loosing the most life. So it has to be them.

[Justignoreme]

Yet hasn't been lost or bared witness to any of the truly terrible acts of the Horde, not to mention how it's just one zone whereas the aggression against Humans is practically global.
Theramore and Southshore both were victims of terrible acts. The Humans were also also completely pushed out of Hillsbrad.

Azshara, Ashenvale, Stonetalon, and Darkshore are more than one zone. The land, Azshara aside, may still be in Night Elf control but it's thoroughly raped and defiled, and will take a long time to recover. Also bombing Thaldarah grove rivals anything the Forsaken did in Southshore in terms of atrocity. It was a school full of children. Southshore had nothing to do with the Orcs nor was it given an order by the Horde at large. Garrosh forbid the use of plague by the Forsaken, the Forsaken defied him and did it anyways. It was Sylvanas, not Garrosh who ordered that. She still has yet to be dealt with properly. Humans are the big ultimate enemy of the Orcs, yes, but to say they are the only ones dealing with Orcish and Horde aggression is to pretend Cataclysm didn't exist. The context was who has Garrosh done the most damage to. Sylvanas' actions don't count as Garrosh's

[Deleted]

The only question I have though is this, if the horde rebellion and alliance are meant to be killing off Garrosh's followers and (hoping still) killing Garrosh too, I wonder how this isn't meant to weaken the orcs as the hordes main body

It should do, but it wont because blizzard don't like common sense.

[Justignoreme]

It should do, but it wont because blizzard don't like common sense.

when it comes down to orcs having glory and common sense, orcs having glory will always come first, especially with "I-Am-Thrall" Metzen at the helm and his orc-loving cdev team. Green Jesus will return to the Horde as the prodigal son... everything else is merely written to make this even as awesome as possible for the orcs.

[Trassk]

when it comes down to orcs having glory and common sense, orcs having glory will always come first, especially with "I-Am-Thrall" Metzen at the helm and his orc-loving cdev team. Green Jesus will return to the Horde as the prodigal son... everything else is merely written to make this even as awesome as possible for the orcs.

oh.. man, please just try to make it constructive then just another whine about 'Thrall is jesus, Metzen is jesus, horde always win', it gets old, really old.

Metzen is the head of creative development and EVERYTHING that happens in the lore comes down to his choices, yet you try and make it sound like he's only influential in one aspect of the game, its ridiculous to keep saying otherwise.