[Fire] Fire Spec Redesign Idea

[Steeljp]

Yeah I like my original phoenix idea where you get a second life instead of cauterize for 20 seonds, such as the Holy Priest spec, but this isn't about me this is about the Mage community

I like cauterize how it is. Prefer the phoenix thing like a damage cooldown that you use with max heat.

[LocNess]

I like cauterize how it is. Prefer the phoenix thing like a damage cooldown that you use with max heat.

Something like:

Phoenix Rush - For every 100 Heat you have, you summon 1 Phoenix that charges through and past a target, leaving damaging fire in its wake. The fire trail lasts 20 seconds and does X fire damage to anything that stands on it.

For the purpose of the spell, each Phoenix would spawn instantly per heat you have in a circle formation around the boss to create a circular radius. The DoTs would not stack, however.

[Dyart]

Is it just me or is there anyone else feels it so look like arcane? The heat to me very much like mana pool for arcane...in arcane some spells costs less mana, so you regenerate more mana if you cast it, while some spells costs more mana than you regenerate...

After all, I agree that fire need some rework and current fire mechanism is not any better than bull shit.

---------- Post added 2013-03-01 at 07:45 PM ----------

Oh and...as I play LOL...it feels so like Trydamere or Ramble....well I guess that is just a joke though..XD

[LocNess]

Is it just me or is there anyone else feels it so look like arcane? The heat to me very much like mana pool for arcane...in arcane some spells costs less mana, so you regenerate more mana if you cast it, while some spells costs more mana than you regenerate...

After all, I agree that fire need some rework and current fire mechanism is not any better than bull shit.

---------- Post added 2013-03-01 at 07:45 PM ----------

Oh and...as I play LOL...it feels so like Trydamere or Ramble....well I guess that is just a joke though..XD

You are visualizing Heat is an upkeep, it is more of a resource. Arcane you must keep it over a certain %, Heat is affected directly through abilities and CD's can absorb it all back to 0. I get that the goal is to have higher heat values to promote crit and damage from Theromphile, and that may feel like Arcane, however Arcane does not have spells that generate mana or increase it, or CD's that bring your mana to 0%.

[Deleted]

[QUOTE=LocNess;19310018]
Phoenix Rising - Replaces Cauterize - If killed, you come back to life as a phoenix for 20 seconds, able to cast your normal spells and abilities

DK used to have a spell like this, where they would be rez as a ghoul for 30sec after they die. But Blizz did not like it and remove it (cant link post)

To be honest, I am not a big fan of additionnal ressource (in your case heat), Blizz has used it quite a lot recently, and I think not all classes should get a new ressource. I like mages not to have an additionnal ressource like warlocks have.

[LocNess]

Phoenix Rising - Replaces Cauterize - If killed, you come back to life as a phoenix for 20 seconds, able to cast your normal spells and abilities

DK used to have a spell like this, where they would be rez as a ghoul for 30sec after they die. But Blizz did not like it and remove it (cant link post)

To be honest, I am not a big fan of additionnal ressource (in your case heat), Blizz has used it quite a lot recently, and I think not all classes should get a new ressource. I like mages not to have an additionnal ressource like warlocks have.

What classes have gotten additional resources besides Warlocks? Warlocks just got Burning Embers and Demonic Fury (Soul Shard was already in place), and that is because Warlocks NEEDED a revamp, because they were a horrible class to play last expansion (by a large opinion of players). Monks are a brand new class, so they do not count. Paladins got Holy Power an expansion ago. Let's see the rest:

DKs? No
Rogues? No
Warriors? No
Mages? No
Monks? New Class, and they due use energy as well, so they are shared?
Hunters? Focus was back in Cata
Paladins? Holy Power back in Cata
Warlocks? Needed the revamp
Shaman? Nope
Priest? No. Shadow Priests got a new toy with orbs, but it isn't implemented as a resource IIRC
Druid? No.

Guess what is a really a broken spec right now? Fire. If you really need an argument for this, then please go ahead and call me out on this.

DKs lost the spell due to their OP nature. It isn't because Blizzard did not like it, it is because at the beginning of WotLK, Death Knights were way to powerful and Blizzard nerfed the hell out of their class, which included the loss of some key talents. It obviously still exists in the game (Holy Priests have it, oh and they get unlimited Mana during it and increased heals, how about that?) so it isn't because "Blizzard didn't like it."

[mireigi]

Sounds a lot like the Bright Wizard from Warhammer:
http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wik...ard#Speciality

I like the idea though.

[Nukleus]

I fully support this idea, a post on the official forums would be nice. Maybe then Blizzard can take a look and take this as an idea to build on from. Good job!

[LocNess]

Sounds a lot like the Bright Wizard from Warhammer:
http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wik...ard#Speciality

I like the idea though.

Never played it or heard of it o.O as long as it isn't spot on I am just trying to make a good specialization ^_^

I fully support this idea, a post on the official forums would be nice. Maybe then Blizzard can take a look and take this as an idea to build on from. Good job!

I did place it on the official forums for Mages back in early December, but Blizzard does not read those. I made a ticket asking about it earlier today and basically they said "You just have to hope on the chance that they skim it, otherwise there is no way for Blizzard to get in touch with your idea."

[Deleted]

What classes have gotten additional resources besides Warlocks? Warlocks just got Burning Embers and Demonic Fury (Soul Shard was already in place), and that is because Warlocks NEEDED a revamp, because they were a horrible class to play last expansion (by a large opinion of players). Monks are a brand new class, so they do not count. Paladins got Holy Power an expansion ago. Let's see the rest:

DKs? No
Rogues? No
Warriors? No
Mages? No
Monks? New Class, and they due use energy as well, so they are shared?
Hunters? Focus was back in Cata
Paladins? Holy Power back in Cata
Warlocks? Needed the revamp
Shaman? Nope
Priest? No. Shadow Priests got a new toy with orbs, but it isn't implemented as a resource IIRC
Druid? No.

Guess what is a really a broken spec right now? Fire. If you really need an argument for this, then please go ahead and call me out on this.

DKs lost the spell due to their OP nature. It isn't because Blizzard did not like it, it is because at the beginning of WotLK, Death Knights were way to powerful and Blizzard nerfed the hell out of their class, which included the loss of some key talents. It obviously still exists in the game (Holy Priests have it, oh and they get unlimited Mana during it and increased heals, how about that?) so it isn't because "Blizzard didn't like it."

This was not my point at all, I was just saying that i was not a big fan of additionnal ressource. And if fire indeed is broken, it does not mean that a new ressource will fix it, it can fix it of course, but you can fix the problem without it too.

But there are no dps that has a similar talent (spirit of redemption). Regarding a Phoenix spell, i have always wanted a phoenix spell for the fire spec

[Deleted]

Instead of an increased crit based on heat, I would rather add a threshold to the heat bar (0-100|100-200) and make Pyro! available if you crit when above the threshold.
That way there's less RNG because the precondition for Pyro! is in control of the player (above 100 heat), but it's still random (need a crit, a fireball crit could even generate double heat to keep the crit-crit-Pyro! sequence). I would then make Scorch consume heat and put a DoT on the target when above 100 heat (still usable if low on heat but less efficient), as some kind of Scorch weaving. The Scorch DoT DPS can be adjusted to make fire dps not so bad when there's no Pyro!, though less bursty.

Some ideas :
- Combustion consume all heat to create a DoT (based on heat) which attempt to spread each time it ticks
- Change some spells to consume heat (with additional effect above threshold possible) : a shield/mini-cauterize (trade some damage for survivability), a blazing speed effect after you blink, a Blastwave effect
- A new Talent Tier that let you choose a new spell/effect to generate heat (and appropriate ressource for the other two specs): Flame Orb for burst heat, a proc to add a new spell generating heat to the rotation, an empowered Living Bomb for a more passive, constant flow option

[Elegiac]

This was not my point at all, I was just saying that i was not a big fan of additionnal ressource. And if fire indeed is broken, it does not mean that a new ressource will fix it, it can fix it of course, but you can fix the problem without it too.

But there are no dps that has a similar talent (spirit of redemption). Regarding a Phoenix spell, i have always wanted a phoenix spell for the fire spec

Heat would be -a- resource since mana is obsolete for caster DPS anyway. The problems with Fire is that it lacks any significant DPS cooldown, the rotation is boring as hell, and it's too crit reliant (i.e. scales too well with gear).

[Polarthief]

Omg. WANT.

I don't even know what else to say. It'd be so cool to have something like this. It'd be similar to Demonology, without being Demonology.

So want.

---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 01:31 PM ----------

What classes have gotten additional resources besides Warlocks? Warlocks just got Burning Embers and Demonic Fury (Soul Shard was already in place), and that is because Warlocks NEEDED a revamp, because they were a horrible class to play last expansion (by a large opinion of players).

So by this logic, we're guaranteed a revamp in 6.0. Yay!

---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 01:31 PM ----------

I did place it on the official forums for Mages back in early December, but Blizzard does not read those. I made a ticket asking about it earlier today and basically they said "You just have to hope on the chance that they skim it, otherwise there is no way for Blizzard to get in touch with your idea."

You could put it in Damage Dealing.

[LocNess]

Instead of an increased crit based on heat, I would rather add a threshold to the heat bar (0-100|100-200) and make Pyro! available if you crit when above the threshold.
That way there's less RNG because the precondition for Pyro! is in control of the player (above 100 heat), but it's still random (need a crit, a fireball crit could even generate double heat to keep the crit-crit-Pyro! sequence). I would then make Scorch consume heat and put a DoT on the target when above 100 heat (still usable if low on heat but less efficient), as some kind of Scorch weaving. The Scorch DoT DPS can be adjusted to make fire dps not so bad when there's no Pyro!, though less bursty.

Some ideas :
- Combustion consume all heat to create a DoT (based on heat) which attempt to spread each time it ticks
- Change some spells to consume heat (with additional effect above threshold possible) : a shield/mini-cauterize (trade some damage for survivability), a blazing speed effect after you blink, a Blastwave effect
- A new Talent Tier that let you choose a new spell/effect to generate heat (and appropriate ressource for the other two specs): Flame Orb for burst heat, a proc to add a new spell generating heat to the rotation, an empowered Living Bomb for a more passive, constant flow option

I would like a Blazing Speed version that is beneficial for PvE. I am sure that is an area to look into. However, there won't be much RNG issue with this spec. Of course all specs in the game will have RNG to a certain extent, and I do not think RNG is a bad thing in controlled amounts. However with the scaling crit, that gives you a baseline of ~30%, and the spec is not as crit dependent as current Fire, allowing the stacking of Haste to keep up the base crit you get.

Omg. WANT.

I don't even know what else to say. It'd be so cool to have something like this. It'd be similar to Demonology, without being Demonology.

So want.

---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 01:31 PM ----------



So by this logic, we're guaranteed a revamp in 6.0. Yay!

---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 01:31 PM ----------



You could put it in Damage Dealing.

I wish we were guaranteed a 6.0 revamp . And I don't think it would be appropriate for damage dealers and it would just get locked.

[Polarthief]

I wish we were guaranteed a 6.0 revamp . And I don't think it would be appropriate for damage dealers and it would just get locked.

You must have missed my "Mage Mobility" thread on DD. It hit 3 threads before I got perma banned from the forums (and I like how they suspend/ban for the most stupid shit)

[LocNess]

You must have missed my "Mage Mobility" thread on DD. It hit 3 threads before I got perma banned from the forums (and I like how they suspend/ban for the most stupid shit)

I suppose there is no harm in trying then. And Blizzard did state they read that forum so....

[Dyart]

You are visualizing Heat is an upkeep, it is more of a resource. Arcane you must keep it over a certain %, Heat is affected directly through abilities and CD's can absorb it all back to 0. I get that the goal is to have higher heat values to promote crit and damage from Theromphile, and that may feel like Arcane, however Arcane does not have spells that generate mana or increase it, or CD's that bring your mana to 0%.

In arcane you actually has spells to generate or increase mana. I am not saying evocation, as you regenerate mana constantly, each spell that consumes less mana than you regenerate during the cast will "generate" mana in a way. A good example is scorch...if you stand in the rune of power, each scorch gives you 2.9% mana.

The whole arcane idea, although personally I think is very broken, is that, you have a fixed amount of mana, and your damage is related to your mana level, so the optimized way to dps is keep the mana on high level until close to the end of the encounter, when you dump them all. So according to your model, I would imaging the optimized way is to keep a high heat, and only consume it to make sure it does not overflow or nearing the end of an encounter. In that way you maximize the benefit from heat.

An alternative model is like warlock's demonfury, your damage output is not related to the demonfury you have, and you can only benefit it by consuming it by casting certain spells. Actually before the failed arcane mastery is introduced, arcane is much like in this model: your damage is not related to your current mana pool. A good feature here is that: we are not "forced" to keep a resource at high level all the time, and we have more freedom to decide when to dump more resources when not to. Imagine how difficult rogue DPS will be if they are forced to keep their energy above 50 all day or they lose DPS.

I agree your model is good, actually better than arcane's current model. However I think: 1. Blizzard will not care about other's model as they always consider these unprofessional. 2. The model is too similar to arcane. While there are very few viable dps models, unless arcane get fixed first, I don't see any reason to change fire to this model.

[Polarthief]

I suppose there is no harm in trying then. And Blizzard did state they read that forum so....

Granted, they completely ignored our 3 capped threads about mobility. It's like they just don't give a shit about Mage issues unless Lhivera is unhappy with something.

[Elegiac]

In arcane you actually has spells to generate or increase mana. I am not saying evocation, as you regenerate mana constantly, each spell that consumes less mana than you regenerate during the cast will "generate" mana in a way. A good example is scorch...if you stand in the rune of power, each scorch gives you 2.9% mana.

The whole arcane idea, although personally I think is very broken, is that, you have a fixed amount of mana, and your damage is related to your mana level, so the optimized way to dps is keep the mana on high level until close to the end of the encounter, when you dump them all. So according to your model, I would imaging the optimized way is to keep a high heat, and only consume it to make sure it does not overflow or nearing the end of an encounter. In that way you maximize the benefit from heat.

An alternative model is like warlock's demonfury, your damage output is not related to the demonfury you have, and you can only benefit it by consuming it by casting certain spells. Actually before the failed arcane mastery is introduced, arcane is much like in this model: your damage is not related to your current mana pool. A good feature here is that: we are not "forced" to keep a resource at high level all the time, and we have more freedom to decide when to dump more resources when not to. Imagine how difficult rogue DPS will be if they are forced to keep their energy above 50 all day or they lose DPS.

I agree your model is good, actually better than arcane's current model. However I think: 1. Blizzard will not care about other's model as they always consider these unprofessional. 2. The model is too similar to arcane. While there are very few viable dps models, unless arcane get fixed first, I don't see any reason to change fire to this model.

Arcane's model is flawed regardless.

[Polarthief]

-snip-

I'd say the heat model is a bit like Demonology, but it's NOTHING like Arcane.