Should father have any say about abortion?

[obdigore]

It's sort of disappointing that we live in times where people preach for equality and emancipation, yet the male shouldn't be able to give his thought on whether or not his potential offspring should be aborted. The double-edged blade of hypocrisy swings again!

And yeah, pregnancy is not a good time for a woman, I can not relate to that, but I can comprehend that. I'm also sure, that while it's not nearly the same, the male counterpart of the couple will also get some hefty verbal abuse during that time, which is not the woman's fault. (naturally)

But to have your potential child "executed" can be even worse.

So 'verbal abuse' is equal to carrying a child to term and all the physical and mental changes that come along with that?

Equality, again, is for equal situations. This situation is not equal.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

It's sort of disappointing that we live in times where people preach for equality and emancipation, yet the male shouldn't be able to give his thought on whether or not his potential offspring should be aborted. The double-edged blade of hypocrisy swings again!

And yeah, pregnancy is not a good time for a woman, I can not relate to that, but I can comprehend that. I'm also sure, that while it's not nearly the same, the male counterpart of the couple will also get some hefty verbal abuse during that time, which is not the woman's fault. (naturally)

But to have your potential child "executed" can be even worse.

For one, it's not hypocritical to acknowledge that a situation is inherently unfair and do the best you can to make it the best you can.
Secondly, verbal abuse during pregnancy is absolutely the woman's fault. You still have control of what you say.
Finally, your final point would take too long to argue against because it is an entirely different question itself, so I'm just going to say "Too bad."

[Deleted]

It's sort of disappointing that we live in times where people preach for equality and emancipation, yet the male shouldn't be able to give his thought on whether or not his potential offspring should be aborted. The double-edged blade of hypocrisy swings again!

An unborn child lives solely on the mother, if the mother dies the child dies. One could compare it to being parasitic if it's unwanted by the woman and symbiotic if it's wanted.

But to have your potential child "executed" can be even worse.

If I had been forced to carry through a pregnancy against my will I'd probably commit suicide.

[Deleted]

Absolutely no!

It's the female that has to supply the body at great inconvience and possible health risk for nine months to grow the fetus. As such the choice is hers and hers alone. Not the father, not the state, not the religious jerkfaces, not anyone else. It's quite simple really. The recent tragic case from Ireland demonstrate all too clearly the consequences of failing to graps this.

This discussion has been held numerous times, but there always seems to be new misogynistic jerkfaces that want to call this essential right of women into question

[Raelbo]

That being said, a man should be able to opt out in the case of an unplanned pregnancy where the woman chooses to keep it with the caveat that there still be enough time for the woman to get an abortion if she feels she would be unable to raise the child on her own.

I disagree. A man should only be allowed to opt out if it is a mutual decision, ie, the man wants nothing to do with the child and the woman wants the man to have nothing to do with the child.

Going through with an abortion is not an easy choice for most people. Forcing a woman to choose between having to take full responsibility for a child or having an abortion just because the father has bailed on his responsibilities is not fair.

In the end, the incentive would still be on people (both men AND women) being more responsible about choosing their sexual partners.

I agree that this should be the objective, but I don't see how your plan would achieve it. Allowing men to simply 'opt out' in the event of an unplanned pregnancy gives men absolutely no incentive to choose their sexual partners carefully at all. If you get a woman pregnant, there absolutely should be consequences....

[Dezerte]

No, while the male should be able to discuss and argue with the woman it's still the woman's body. It's rather ridiculous to think that anyone else should be able to control somebody's body.

[Itisamuh]

I'm actually a pretty agreeable person...

You may be. I don't deny your knowledge or intelligence, but you can be a bit confrontational and condescending. Of course I can too, and I'm much more conservative than you, so we don't seem to see eye to eye on very many issues, especially when they're related to gender equality and inequality. It's all in good fun, though.

No one said the father can't speak his thoughts. What Spectral said is that he has no right to actually control the mother's decision whatsoever.

Equality is being equal under equal circumstances. Being pregnant, is not an equal situation to having made somebody pregnant.

Well I think that's the crux of the issue. Most reasonable men would agree that they shouldn't be able to force a woman's hand, and that it's her final say no matter what. We simply think the system needs to change to allow fathers the right to opt out, the way a woman can. Even you've acknowledge that's fair, but some people don't think so. Some people really don't think men should have a choice in the matter at all. That's when it becomes a double standard.

[Yogg-Saron, God of Death]

No one said the father can't speak his thoughts. What Spectral said is that he has no right to actually control the mother's decision whatsoever.

Equality is being equal under equal circumstances. Being pregnant, is not an equal situation to having made somebody pregnant.

Then people need to be more clear with that, not me.

I'm just saying that since creating a child is a done job by two (and no, again, not the part about being pregnant) so at the very least, he should be able to speak his thoughts and/or try to sway the mother. If not, it wouldn't be equal after all, would it? So before you (not you you, but the 'everyone you'.) jump on me, think about what I actually meant.


EDIT: Once again, this may be a little confusing, but my point is that no, a man shouldn't tell a woman she can't get an abortion period, that's just cruel and once again, would fully contradict my previous point about 'equality' or at least striving for it. I do think that they should both have the right to give their opinions and the man should be given the opportunity to change the woman's viewpoint on it. Beyond that, it's still the woman's body, as many pointed out.

[Deleted]

Then people need to be more clear with that, not me.

I'm just saying that since creating a child is a done job by two (and no, again, not the part about being pregnant) so at the very least, he should be able to speak his thoughts and/or try to sway the mother. If not, it wouldn't be equal after all, would it? So before you (not you you, but the 'everyone you'.) jump on me, think about what I actually meant.

The problem is that it isn't equal and will never be in regards to pregnancy. Men cannot give birth.

[obdigore]

Then people need to be more clear with that, not me.

I'm just saying that since creating a child is a done job by two (and no, again, not the part about being pregnant) so at the very least, he should be able to speak his thoughts and/or try to sway the mother. If not, it wouldn't be equal after all, would it? So before you (not you you, but the 'everyone you'.) jump on me, think about what I actually meant.

Say what you mean and mean what you say, God of Death.

The simple matter is that the baby batter comes from both, but everything after that comes from one, and inside her body, making it an issue of a woman controlling her body. That is why a man gets no _legal_ say in the abortion process.

[Nengal]

This is like a man planting pepper seeds in his female neighbor's yard. Whether she gave him permission at the start or not, when the peppers start to grow, it's still her yard in the end.

[Yogg-Saron, God of Death]

The problem is that it isn't equal and will never be in regards to pregnancy. Men cannot give birth.

You can still strive for it, but I agree that the concept of forcing a woman to do with her body what she doesn't want to do is nonsensical. Yes, it's impossible to give fair equality in such a case, I don't disagree.

Say what you mean and mean what you say, God of Death.

The simple matter is that the baby batter comes from both, but everything after that comes from one, and inside her body, making it an issue of a woman controlling her body. That is why a man gets no _legal_ say in the abortion process.

..

....Oooor, you can refrain from jumping on me so easily. I can appreciate how fiercely people here representing their view on it (not to be mistaken by 'fiercely attacking'), but I think pouncing on people is not a good way to go about doing it.

I'll concede though, since I'm not going to argue over what was likely a mistake.

[obdigore]

....Oooor, you can refrain from jumping on me so easily. I can appreciate how fiercely people here representing their view on it (not to be mistaken by 'fiercely attacking'), but I think pouncing on people is not a good way to go about doing it.

I'll concede though, since I'm not going to argue over what was likely a mistake.

If I was jumping on you, sir, I guarantee you my response would have been quite a bit different.

[semaphore]

Then people need to be more clear with that, not me.

No, its on you. Spectral was pretty clear.

IMHO I find unbelieveably unfair that woman can have an abortion without the consent of the father

That's not a humble opinion, it's an arrogant, selfish, immoral opinion.

No real way to interpret that as "speak his thoughts."

[Yogg-Saron, God of Death]

No, its on you. Spectral was pretty clear.

No real way to interpret that as "speak his thoughts."

All right then, again, I concede. That doesn't mean I'll relinquish the aforementioned point, even though it might be a bit unnecessary/irrelevant.

I apologize though, I guess I was mostly looking at the "tone" of the response rather than the contents. In that case, I still think Spectral could've phrased it differently.

[Deleted]

It's such a difficult issue. Do I believe that women should take into account their sexual partners opinion when deciding on whether or not to bring a foetus to term? Absolutely. Do I believe that legislation should be used to force women to keep a pregnancy they do not want before the viability stage? No.

From a materialist point of view, I think the concept of an unborn child is a very real thing. My youngest brother was 2.5 months premature, only a little while after when the viability stage is supposed to start (24 weeks), and seeing him then, despite his minute size (and the lanugo hair making him look like a wolfman!), I would definitely refer to him as a baby and not an 'out-of-womb' foetus or something.

An abortion is something that should never be conducted flippantly and, hopefully, if one takes the necessary precautions to avoid conception, it shouldn't have to resort to (except in rare cases). The pro-life movement would be able to gain so much ground if they added a little grey to their definitions of what it is to "kill an unborn child". The difference between a condom and a second trimester abortion is, in my opinion, infinitely vast, as is the difference between a morning after pill and a late term abortion.

If I wanted a kid and me and my partner had agreed to try for one successfully and then four months down the line she tells me she got rid of it, I don't think I'd ever be able to forgive her, but it's not something I'd want to get courts involved with.

[skrump]

And if they're taking some medication that is reducing the effectiveness of the pill? Or if she's been sick and thus the effectivity was affected by that? If they're larger than the weight the dosage is intended for(It's mostly a "one-dosage for all sizes" when it comes to that as far as I know, leaving larger women at a disadvantage when it comes to protection efficiency), what then? It's gonna be diluted among those with a larger body, someone who weighs 50 kg and someone who weighs 100kg does not respond the same way to it.

So precautions were taken and failed, abortion is an option only you can choose and at that point the guy has no say in the matter so should you choose to not take advantage of that option for whatever reason "it should be your problem alone just as it was your decision alone to not get the abortion"

I mean honestly 2 people get together neither wants kids they take precautions something go's wrong in which only the women can fix but decides not to do so then wants to hold the man accountable
(If you cannot see the unfairness of the situation please superglue your legs closed or at least give a man a warning your the type of bitch who would do such a thing)

[Deleted]

I don't think fathers have anything to say about abortion, it is the woman's body.
But in other for father not having anything to say about abortion, father should have the right to not have to pay child support when he wants the woman to abort and she doesn't want to.


In other to have equal rights.

After discovering that she is pregnant the woman must inform the father asap.

-If both want to have a baby they should sign a paper, saying that both will care for the baby. (i know this is stupid but in other for the next part to be a viable option we must protect child)
-If the father doesn't want the baby and the mother does, the father shouldn't have to pay child support, there is an option to abort if the woman didn't wanted to she should take full responsibility.
If the woman doesn't want the baby and the father does, well suck it up it is the woman's body if she doesn't want to go to all the crap that pregnancy gives her and risk losing her job, or she has a fragile body and could put her life at risk, the father does not have anything to say about it.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

So precautions were taken and failed, abortion is an option only you can choose and at that point the guy has no say in the matter so should you choose to not take advantage of that option for whatever reason "it should be your problem alone just as it was your decision alone to not get the abortion"

I mean honestly 2 people get together neither wants kids they take precautions something go's wrong in which only the women can fix but decides not to do so then wants to hold the man accountable
(If you cannot see the unfairness of the situation please superglue your legs closed or at least give a man a warning your the type of bitch who would do such a thing)

So basically, somebody did something crazy?

[obdigore]

So basically, somebody did something crazy?

People change their minds. News at 11.