Should father have any say about abortion?

[eternalwhitemoon]

My point proven. Its BS that woman get all the choice and males get nothing.

Males do not have to deal with the extreme physical and emotional changes that come with pregnancy and labor. You have no idea what it's like.

If I said that some of my genetic material made its way into your penis, would that give me the right to force you to cut it off?

[Lastkaii]

In my opinion, discuss it before you start having the potential for this to happen. Don't decide upon it once it is actually an issue.

[Purlina]

If it's truly a gift, it's both freely given and freely received and taken into possession. If it's a gift - then it's her property to do with as she pleases and her sole legal responsibility. If I gift someone a pet whale and they accept it, it becomes their possession. They don't have the legal right to demand I pay for half of the building costs of a marine facility and half of the krill budget.

Except children are not pets.

Children are not property.

[Wælcyrie]

Males do not have to deal with the extreme physical and emotional changes that come with pregnancy and labor. You have no idea what it's like.

If I said that some of my genetic material made its way into your penis, would that give me the right to force you to cut it off?

Again your argument is pointless because you make it seem as if men have a choice in being able to carry children or not.
We'll speak in the future if some event happens and men mutate to be able to have kids.

[Jtbrig7390]

Males do not have to deal with the extreme physical and emotional changes that come with pregnancy and labor. You have no idea what it's like.

If I said that some of my genetic material made its way into your penis, would that give me the right to force you to cut it off?

So because you decided to keep a child I didn't want that entitles you to my life/money for 18 years.....

Also no all woman go threw major emotional changes I have known a few that have had 2+ kids and they where then as they where before they got prego.

Also males go threw physical/emotional changes as well like working 2x harder to make sure both the kid and the mother have easy'er lives and they worry about things like if they will be a good dad or not.

but ya lets over look all the things a male has to deal with for the 9 months "AKA the Mother"

Double standard

[eternalwhitemoon]

If men and women were ''equal'', they would share ''equal'' responsibilities when it comes to pregnancy. By that logic, if the woman doesn't want to keep the baby and she can opt out, regardless of the opinion of the man- she can. BUT, if the woman wants to keep the baby, and the man doesn't, he should be free of all responsibility-but only if men and women were ''equal''.

Where exactly lies the equality in ''I get away scott-free because of my gender'' in this?

Well, here's the problem. Child support was created because too many men were deadbeats and just walked away from their kids. I wish child support didn't have to exist, I really do. But the fact of the matter is, more men than I would like to think about are scumbags and don't support their children without the government forcing them to.

And, by the way, being pregnant is hardly scot-free.

So because you decided to keep a child I didn't want that entitles you to my life/money for 18 years.....

See above. I don't like child support and I wish it didn't have to exist, but not everyone is in a financially stable healthy monogamous relationship like I am.

[DisposableHero]

Except children are not pets.

Children are not property.

A fetus is not a child, if it were, abortions would be murder. This decision making process about support or not to support would be made at the same time the choice to abort or not could be made.

[Wælcyrie]

Well, here's the problem. Child support was created because too many men were deadbeats and just walked away from their kids. I wish child support didn't have to exist, I really do. But the fact of the matter is, more men than I would like to think about are scumbags and don't support their children without the government forcing them to.

And, by the way, being pregnant is hardly scot-free.

No it wasn't created because of men, it was created due to crappy parents,
Why should a man be forced to pay for a child which he didn't want but the woman wanted?
And stay in a relationship which could end up harmful.

[Deleted]

Except children are not pets.

Children are not property.

By that logic, you're killing a child by opting for abortion and should be imprisoned.

We're talking about the sperm, not YET a human life.

[Jtbrig7390]

Child support was created because too many men were deadbeats and just walked away from their kids / being pregnant is hardly scot-free.

There is just as many woman out there just trying to have a kid so they got a sorce of free income as there is dead beat dads. Also you right being pregnant is hardly scot free. but what you fail to notice is males have a lot to deal with as well one big thing they got to deal with is.....the mother.

[eternalwhitemoon]

No it wasn't created because of men, it was created due to crappy parents,
Why should a man be forced to pay for a child which he didn't want but the woman wanted?

A man being one half of that parenting equation you blame.

Anyway, actually, you aren't forced to pay child support under all circumstances. You simply have to give up your parental rights, and you don't have to pay child support.

My sister's oldest daughter's father gave up his parental rights and he doesn't pay a dime. Consequently, he doesn't get a say in how she is raised. Win/win.

[Purlina]

A fetus is not a child, if it were, abortions would be murder. This decision making process about support or not to support would be made at the same time the choice to abort or not could be made.

I wasn't talking about the fetus silly. I was talking about children, as in a born child...

[eternalwhitemoon]

There is just as many woman out there just trying to have a kid so they got a sorce of free income as there is dead beat dads. Also you right being pregnant is hardly scot free. but what you fail to notice is males have a lot to deal with as well one big thing they got to deal with is.....the mother.

Yes, yes, I know we're terrible hormonal bitches that you can hardly stand to be around, but hey, you wanted the kid too right?

*PS: Don't mind the snark, it's not serious. I am pregnant with my first child and I am in a feisty arguin' mood.

[DisposableHero]

See above. I don't like child support and I wish it didn't have to exist, but not everyone is in a financially stable healthy monogamous relationship like I am.

Those not in a financially stable healthy relationship should not be having children. While there are dead beat dads deserving of the title, there are also baby crazy women willing to lie, cheat, and deceive their way into having children and making their partners pay for it. The law protects women from the former, and should also protect men from the latter, but right now it doesn't.

I wasn't talking about the fetus silly. I was talking about children, as in a born child...

And the people you are arguing with are not talking about born children. They are talking about making a decision when their partner has chosen to keep the baby. I would only extend absolving oneself of parental responsibility to a born child if it can be proven that the mother willfully concealed the pregnancy from the father until after it was too late to abort.

And for the record, you replied to a post about sperm and conception, so yes in fact, you were talking about a fetus.

[isadorr]

So a man is told to pay child support payments for 18 years LOL but if he wants any sort of say in the abortion the he shouldnt have a say in it?

[Purlina]

By that logic, you're killing a child by opting for abortion and should be imprisoned.

We're talking about the sperm, not YET a human life.

No, he switched from talking about sperm to talking about child support silly!

Sperm = property
Pet = property
Live child = not property

Okay?

If I gift someone a pet whale and they accept it, it becomes their possession. They don't have the legal right to demand I pay for half of the building costs of a marine facility and half of the krill budget.

[Deleted]

And, by the way, being pregnant is hardly scot-free.

It's still _her_ choice to stay pregnant in that scenario. And that pretty much IS getting away scot-free.

Being pregnant is not a punishment if you want a kid, now is it? :P

No, he switched from talking about sperm to talking about child support silly!

Sperm = property
Pet = property
Live child = not property

Okay?

No he didn't, he said that the sperm was a GIFT, he never said ANYTHING about a human life.

[Fairelight]

A fetus is not a child, if it were, abortions would be murder. This decision making process about support or not to support would be made at the same time the choice to abort or not could be made.

although in some sense i disagree, whether abortion is murder or not is not the issue here, i have strong feelings about the moral implications of abortions but they are legal and i accept that. This is about the right's of both parents should the event arise

[eternalwhitemoon]

Those not in a financially stable healthy relationship should not be having children. While there are dead beat dads deserving of the title, there are also baby crazy women willing to lie, cheat, and deceive their way into having children and making their partners pay for it. The law protects women from the former, and should also protect men from the latter, but right now it doesn't.

I don't disagree with you one bit. However, wouldn't it be a bit hard to prove that a woman "tricked" a man into getting her pregnant? I don't mind attempts to rectify that, but giving a man the same control over a woman's pregnancy has unintended consequences that I'm not willing to let happen to prevent women from abusing the system.

Being pregnant is not a punishment if you want a kid, now is it? :P

Tell that to my crazy mood swings, 2 AM cravings, round ligament pain, random morning sickness sessions even though I swear it was supposed to be over by now, painful tender skin, restrictions from physical sports...

Oh. And the fifty bajillion doctor's visits.

:P

[Deleted]

So a man is told to pay child support payments for 18 years LOL but if he wants any sort of say in the abortion the he shouldnt have a say in it?

He can speak his thoughts but he can't exactly force a woman to go through an abortion if she wants a kid or force her to give birth to a child if he wants a kid.