Crying about PVP realms ''Blue'' response

[Geekissexy]

While I agree with Blizzard, but I still get crazy freaking mad at times. Earlier today I had just begun a pet battle and I was yanked out of it by an alliance warrior and his druid friend that tore my boomkin to pieces before I could even move. I don't care for being on a PVP server, but that's where my friends are and where my guild is so I stay.

[leafs43]

CRZ was never intended to just bring in more lowbies. It was meant to normalize zone populations by merging servers, to make sure there were enough players in every zone to create an active multiplayer environment. On a PvP server, that means more lowbies and more ganking 90s.

If you don't want endless camping and griefing, then there are PvE servers that are suited to your preferences. By choosing a PvP server, you've ticked the box saying you accept and approve of being endlessly camped and griefed. I've already quoted the official PvP realm policy that states this explicitly.


The issue here is that the exact environment you, and others, have stated you have always wanted already exists. It's PvE servers. That's why we're pointing out that you rolled on the wrong server type. You should probably roll on a PvE server or transfer your toons. There's no real way to argue that you didn't know the rules when you rolled on a PvP server, and even if you did, that fault would be on your head, not Blizzard's. And arguing that CRZ changed the environment by populating the zones enough that normal PvP gameplay started back up again also falls flat, because that was the intent of CRZ.

Yes, PvP servers see endless camping and griefing. That's what they're for. If you don't want that, that's what PvE servers are for.

CRZ was intended solely for lower level zones to have more lowbies. They were made for the more desolate zones to have more activity in the leveling process. There are a dozen or so blue posts stating exactly that.



And don't tell me I rolled the wrong server type. I have leveled 8 toons on a PvP server dating all the way back to vanilla. What is occurring in CRZs is not PvP. PvP suggests there is a PvP resolution.

[Verain]

When most people signed up for PvP servers, the combat was not this silly, but you were also forced into the world. You can opt out by leveling PvE and transferring (something Blizzard said they wouldn't allow but did eventually) or humping instances. At the same time, 60s didn't kill 40s just by looking at them, and a stack of 30s could take a 60 down. While the 60 could move a bit faster with his 100% mount, that's nothing on 280 FLIGHT that we see now.

Still, I would be shocked if removal of ganking was on the table. I just wish CRZ had been done with a bit more constraint- most zones are more busy than they were on the biggest of WoW servers now. I also dislike how if someone ganks your alt, you may never be able to find them on your main.

Overall, I really like CRZ, and cross realm ganking is everything I wanted it to be and more- but it can also be disheartening and frustrating in a way that vanilla wow pvp never really was.


EDIT: In addition to this, I'll add that in addition to the ganking, which I love, I've also had some lowbie equal level pvp on my alts- an experience I literally had not had since around 2006, and a very pleasing one.

[Endus]

CRZ was intended solely for lower level zones to have more lowbies. They were made for the more desolate zones to have more activity in the leveling process. There are a dozen or so blue posts stating exactly that.

You're going to be required to find those sources.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...s-realm-zones/
That's the main post they keep referencing about CRZ information. Nowhere does it state that the intent was to populate zones with more lowbies. Unless you can provide me a blue or dev source that they intended only to increase the number of lowbies in a zone, I do not believe they have ever said that, not for one second. In fact, that post there makes it clear that the CRZ-size zone population is what they do balance things like rare spawns and profession nodes around, and that increased competition for those resources is absolutely intended.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...thering-profs/
This one makes it clear that while they hear the complaints from people on low-pop servers complaining about that increased competition, that increased activity is absolutely intended and desired.

Yes, they were made to make the zones more active and lively. Ganking is part of that, on a PvP realm. That's the entire point.

And don't tell me I rolled the wrong server type. I have leveled 8 toons on a PvP server dating all the way back to vanilla. What is occurring in CRZs is not PvP. PvP suggests there is a PvP resolution.

There's a PvP solution here, too. Get a bunch of 90s and fight back. This is how the game has ALWAYS been. On Bleeding Hollow, there's a guild Horde-side that likes to make 80-man raids or larger and go and camp the Alliance honor/conquest vendors, keeping the vendors dead and slaughtering any Alliance players that show up. They'll keep that up for hours. This is perfectly legitimate on a PvP server. There's no way a single level 90 has any chance of accomplishing anything there, nor can that player have any chance of fighting them off.

It's legitimate because there's a PvP solution. That PvP solution is to get several raid groups yourself and go wipe them out.

A PvP solution does not require that you can pull it off. Just that such a solution is theoretically possible. And that's absolutely true if your zone is getting ganked. Could they leave? Sure. If they leave, you won. You can now level without ganking; that was the desired resolution. If you can't get enough people to chase them off, that doesn't mean there's no PvP solution, it just means they're winning.

Yes, you rolled on the wrong server type. I've been playing since Vanilla too, and this is the first time since Vanilla that PvP servers have delivered the leveling experience I remember. Since TBC, those zones have been empty and boring. Running and hiding from lurking max-level players is why I play on PvP servers. I totally get why some people don't like it. It frustrates me too, sometimes. But it's still what I want.

If you don't like it, that's what PvE servers are for. If there weren't such an alternative, I'd be more willing to grant some slack, but that alternative definitively exists. The leveling environment you want is there. The solution is to move your playtime to a PvE server, not to demand that PvP servers be changed to be more like PvE servers.

[Deleted]

I agree with the blue response 100%.

What people complain about, and what they don't realise they complain about when they're talking about ganking, is that it is the Player's "Honour" is somewhat lacking, these are the people who find it fun to attack every single low level trying to get through the dark portal continuously, all day. That isn't Blizzards problem.

I'm not saying I never kill low levels, cause I do, just I know when it goes to far and i'm ruining their game, and that's when i'd stop. Once or twice is enough, after that it's griefing in my opinion.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I think the blues response is typical of the kind of insensative nature that goes with just about all the CM and Developers are WoW. The person making the complaint isn't going on about PVP, and ganking is not PVP, some level 90 running around killing someone who can't even fight back is not PVP, it is straight up PK, which is useally done by people who don't mind having fun at the expense of someone else who is not able to defend themselves.

[Endus]

I think the blues response is typical of the kind of insensative nature that goes with just about all the CM and Developers are WoW. The person making the complaint isn't going on about PVP, and ganking is not PVP, some level 90 running around killing someone who can't even fight back is not PVP, it is straight up PK, which is useally done by people who don't mind having fun at the expense of someone else who is not able to defend themselves.

If you want to define it that way, then the sole and entire purpose of PvP realms is for PK. All PvP is available on both PvE and PvP realms. It's only ganking, or "PK" as you phrase it, that's different about PvP realms.

[thunderdragon2]

If you can't handle world PvP, go to a PvE realm. It's really that simple. There's no such thing as a dishonorable kill. Red equals dead.

vanilla says hi

---------- Post added 2012-12-10 at 09:00 AM ----------

No. The rules of PvP servers were always the same - open to attack by opposing faction at all times. Circumstances are irrelevant. If you don't want PvP, you should not be on PvP server. If you decide to play on PvP, you sign an agreement to participate in PvP whether you like it or not.

be4 CRZ if you were attacked its was mostly by a ole person on your server now its by 5-10 people at once from different servers, the problem is that with different servers its almost impossible to retaliate against that ganker on your main when it was just your server you had the chance of running into them on your main maybe on the way to a raid or doing dailies

[Nerraw]

Good to see the blues having that stance. If you don't want the risk of getting ganked, roll on a PVE server.

[Synstir]

Personally I find it really sad that 90's are killing low levels over and over again... those 90's are sad people and I really feel sorry for them.
Personally I think one has to be quite a big failure in life to enjoy griefing other who cannot defend themselves.

When something like this happens irl we all take the same stance.... Like a 20 year old beating up a 5 year old... the world would be astonished at the state of mind of that 20 year old.
I think this compares to a level 90 killing a low level.... I was ganked on my level 20 toon by a lvl 90; he killed me and waited for me to ress, killed me again.. did this a few times; untill I just logged on another toon and did something else.

Any person doing this, deserves attention; cause I think there is something wrong with that person. I would really like to meet this kind of player once, just to see what his/her mindset is and see if I can help a little.

---------- Post added 2012-12-10 at 09:17 AM ----------

Good to see the blues having that stance. If you don't want the risk of getting ganked, roll on a PVE server.

You and sir, should meet. :-)

[Deleted]

I have levelled 3 toons to 80-85 since CRZ has been implemented. I have only got attacked once or twice by 90's and never camped... Which is way less than I used to get in TBC. Maybe I am on a weird CRZ or something but I haven't had any of the 'problems' that forums seem to claim that 'everyone' has.

[thunderdragon2]

I have levelled 3 toons to 80-85 since CRZ has been implemented. I have only got attacked once or twice by 90's and never camped... Which is way less than I used to get in TBC. Maybe I am on a weird CRZ or something but I haven't had any of the 'problems' that forums seem to claim that 'everyone' has.

thats why the 1-63 areas are more abundant with gankers then the cata zones

[Endus]

thats why the 1-63 areas are more abundant with gankers then the cata zones

I seriously doubt this. There were 3 zones that stood out to me as being big gankfests, for both new toons leveling 1-90. Blasted Lands, because it's the Dark Portal entryway and people typically take the portal from their capital, making it a favored target. And Mount Hyjal and Uldum, in Cataclysm.

When I took the Kalimdor path as Alliance, I saw a fair amount of PvP activity, but the bulk of it was from people in the appropriate level range. When I took the EK path, I saw less of it, but it was generally the proper level as well anyway. I would say the reason is that the Horde starter zones are more traditionally located in Kalimdor, and the opposite is true of the Alliance, and the few exceptions have an easy way to make the switch before entering the contested zones.

If you think ganking isn't happening in Cata zones, then you haven't been playing there much.

[Kantoro]

Excellent, and it inspires me now to create a toon on a PvP server...or, at least, transfer a well-geared PvP toon to a PvP server

The thread could have stopped here. For all the supposed ownage by the blue, the fact that you can level up on on a PvE server and transfer to a PvP server at 90 fully PvP geared deflates every single thing he said. There is no hardcore in this game, it's like the sad individuals who run around flagged on a PvE/RP server thinking they are badass. When in reality they are just too soft to roll with a real PvP environment.

[worsthitmanNa]

Lowbies need some better protection but 90 who transfer to a pvp realm tough luck lol.

[Deleted]

Last few times i flew trough the dark portal in blasted lands it hase always been full of corpses and lvl 90's flying around nuking everyone they see.

For me a pvp server is like it was in vanilla and tbc, mostly same lvl people killing eachother at meeting stones or in zones where questing paths collided (like STV, tanaris, High lvl farming zones,...).
There where times where a random high level would come and nuke you, maybe even camp you, but never at the magnitude it is now.

That blue post seems like an excuse from Blizz because they screwed leveling on a pvp server with CRZ because you get ganked to crap most of the time.

[thunderdragon2]

I seriously doubt this. There were 3 zones that stood out to me as being big gankfests, for both new toons leveling 1-90. Blasted Lands, because it's the Dark Portal entryway and people typically take the portal from their capital, making it a favored target. And Mount Hyjal and Uldum, in Cataclysm.


If you think ganking isn't happening in Cata zones, then you haven't been playing there much.

interesting i was only killed once by horde in hyjal there i skipped uldum i hit 85 in deepoholm, ill agree with you on blasted lands, in battle group helfire is just a sess pool for ganking now and the plague lands i got ganked many times there also. the other zones were just random one offs if i got ganked there at all, i guess the affected areas differ from battle group to battle group

which leads me to ask which are you on as im in misery battle group

[Zoneseek]

This is not the argument.


CRZs were meant to get a few more lowbies looking to level so zones don't feel empty.


Instead it imports an endless supply of level 90s looking to get their rocks off on ganking to compensate for their small manhoods.


Instead of that 1 or 2 known douchenozzles spending an hour or two camping Redridge, CRZ's now takes 10 servers worth of douchenozzles and puts them all in the same zone so the camping and griefing is endless.

Well if that's a problem for you, you simply picked the wrong server type. Transfer or reroll are the options.

[Shekita]

I can understand people liking that atmosphere but I think saying that people who voice their opinion on it are crying is a little much don't you think? I think saying people who have differing opinions are crying about anything is a little overused.

With that said I really don't mind the idea of PvP servers. I don't play them but that's not because of max level PvP, I rather enjoyed that. What irritates me is I just don't find leveling on them any fun at all, at least on any character that cannot stealth but that's just my opinion. The reason for that is max levels just doing nothing but 1 shotting and camping lowbies. I don't mind people being killed by someone 10 levels higher than me but 70 levels higher than me and then not letting me play is just nonsense. You can call that PvP but it's really not because there is no versus.

It's like me saying I am going to go hunting and I stomp ants all day. But again I understand why people enjoy it and are so fierce in defending it.

So what your'e saying is if it's unfair then it's not "versus"? That's not the definition unfortunately, player versus player literally means player against player. So if 1 player attacks another player regardless of faction, race, level, spec, etc. it is indeed still PVP as in one player controlling a character attacking another character controlled by a player.

So "pvp" isn't based on your or anyone else's opinion of what's considered PvP and what isn't. PvP is pretty black and white. If 2 players engage in combat, that is Player versus Player. Plain and simple.

Kudos to the blue who understands this and politely told the person to get over it.

Good lord, most of the WoW player base would have died if they know how brutal open PvP was in earlier MMO's.

Look up what you could lose in Shadowbane or Lineage II or UO in PvP. Plus those games didn't have an option for a pvp or pve server, it was all PvP. You had to put up or shut up...or find enough friends to put up for you heh.

[Melodi]

It's amusing it was stated that way in a Blue Post, I'll admit that. If you rolled on a PvP server you knew what might happen to you while you leveled. If you don't like it, transfer to a PvE server, or simply get better so you don't get your face smashed in. Not much you can do when you're on a lowbie, but again, you chose that server. There's a description of what exactly a PvP server is when you choose it, there's no excuse for ignorance.

I refuse to roll a character on a PvP server because I don't want to have to worry about getting ganked at every turn while I'm trying to level, do dailies, or whatever activity I might fancy at the time. I like to choose when I flag myself and gank someone.