Crying about PVP realms ''Blue'' response

[Enosh]

BUT when you got ganked you could relog to your main and hunt the guy down or ask for help from friends. Now it's almost impossible - not only because people are far more spread out (moving from Pandaria to Tanaris take a long time),

you couldn't have picked a worse example :P

portal from panda city->dalaran->caverns of time

[Orange Joe]

I did, they aren't corrections. One is a restatement of his original position (not even a response to me, never mind a correction of it) and the second is attacking my "opinion" - which I didn't ever give.

but you'd know that, having read them in full yourself. Right?

I have no idea what you're going on about. My argument is very simple.

- Ganking and camping by max-level players has always been the stated intent of PvP realms.
- Population levels in ones outside the current expansion content have suffered population issues, and CRZ corrected that, restoring the intended experience.
- If you're having issues with the PvP server experience post-CRZ, the issue is that you did not understand what PvP servers exist to provide, not that there's something "wrong" with them because they allow ganking and camping by high levels.

I'm not "changing my mind all the time", and I have no idea where you're pulling that from. I've been saying the same thing since I first posted in this thread.

Was a direct reply to you. He restates what his point is. (in other words corrected you on his point)

You have the right to your opinion. You do NOT have the right to express your opinion in public without criticism. If you didn't want people to point out the errors and such, you have the freedom to just not post it to forums for such debate and criticism.



Oh, that's just not true. Ganking was constant against level 15s, in Vanilla. There were no flying mounts then, and once TBC came out, people tended to congregate in the endgame zones, meaning there was lower population levels in the old world, meaning you saw less ganking than you should have.

CRZ has finally resolved that issue and returned the proper amount of ganking. And while I'd love to see the emergence of actual mounted combat, allowing you to engage other players in the air from your own flying mount and rendering nowhere outside of a Sanctuary zone in any way even a little bit "safe", the existence of flying mounts has been true since TBC and isn't really a new and fresh issue now that CRZ has launched.

Where is the attack?

[Deleted]

By genre and title maybe, but not in the old world. In levelling my alts from late Wrath (I started my main mid-Wrath) all the way through Cataclysm it's felt more like a singleplayer game to me. The old zones on my realm were dead, buried, put on ice, 6 feet under, dead. I started my mage in Cataclysm and finished my levelling to 85 shortly before the Mists pre-patch. In that time, I met one, one, other person in the world. That to me is not an MMO. CRZ fixed that. When I'm on my warrior which I'm levelling from time to time now, I meet a bunch of people every 1-2 minutes. To me that is an MMO.

If something happens on a continual basis for 8 years, people can be forgiven for getting used to it and assuming it will continue.

Just sayin'

---------- Post added 2012-12-21 at 01:39 PM ----------

Was a direct reply to you. he restates what his point is (in other words corrected you on his point)

if it's a reply to me - list my points and the direct rebuttals they recieve. Good luck with it, because all he does is ignore my post and then restate his earlier one.

Where is the attack?

You have the right to your opinion. You do NOT have the right to express your opinion in public without criticism. If you didn't want people to point out the errors and such, you have the freedom to just not post it to forums for such debate and criticism.

There you go. And again, I didn't put out any opinions. Me saying "wow has been largely world pvp free for 8 years" isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

[Nerraw]

If something happens on a continual basis for 8 years, people can be forgiven for getting used to it and assuming it will continue.

Just sayin'

The policy is still the policy, and it has stayed that way even though they finally fixed their game.

I still don't get why people would roll on a PVP realm in the first place when the exact experience they're wanting has been available on PVE realms forever. Didn't anyone stop up to think that Blizzard might actually do something to fix PVP servers one day so that they would provide the intended experience?

[Orange Joe]

If something happens on a continual basis for 8 years, people can be forgiven for getting used to it and assuming it will continue.

Just sayin'

---------- Post added 2012-12-21 at 01:39 PM ----------



if it's a reply to me - list my points and the direct rebuttals they recieve. Good luck with it, because all he does is ignore my post and then restate his earlier one.




You have the right to your opinion. You do NOT have the right to express your opinion in public without criticism. If you didn't want people to point out the errors and such, you have the freedom to just not post it to forums for such debate and criticism.

There you go. And again, I didn't put out any opinions. Me saying "wow has been largely world pvp free for 8 years" isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

Got anything to back up that "fact"? ANY kind of proof you can link at all?

[Deleted]

The policy is still the policy, and it has stayed that way even though they finally fixed their game.

Practice > policy.

I still don't get why people would roll on a PVP realm in the first place when the exact experience they're wanting has been available on PVE realms forever. Didn't anyone stop up to think that Blizzard might actually do something to fix PVP servers one day so that they would provide the intended experience?

Maybe, just maybe they signed up to a pvp as they were 1, 2, 3 4 or up to 8 years ago after some experience of them and with a certain set of (very easy to understand) expectations.

Just a thought.

Oh and blizzard hasn't fixed pvp servers. it's detroyed them. It is providing world pvp, but not server based world pvp.

---------- Post added 2012-12-21 at 01:47 PM ----------

Got anything to back up that "fact"? ANY kind of proof you can link at all?

As I already said, some things are so obvious and so well known that they require no evidence.

However, the existence of this thread is ample proof on it's own.

[Orange Joe]

Practice > policy.


Maybe, just maybe they signed up to a pvp as they were 1, 2, 3 4 or up to 8 years ago after some experience of them and with a certain set of (very easy to understand) expectations.

Just a thought.

Oh and blizzard hasn't fixed pvp servers. it's detroyed them. It is providing world pvp, but not server based world pvp.

---------- Post added 2012-12-21 at 01:47 PM ----------



As I already said, some things are so obvious and so well known that they require no evidence.

However, the existence of this thread is ample proof on it's own.

I can provide proof otherwise, in fact feel free to check the active pvp forums here at MMO champ.

[Nerraw]

Practice > policy.

Maybe, just maybe they signed up to a pvp as they were 1, 2, 3 4 or up to 8 years ago after some experience of them and with a certain set of (very easy to understand) expectations.

Just a thought.

Oh and blizzard hasn't fixed pvp servers. it's detroyed them. It is providing world pvp, but not server based world pvp.

Previous practice didn't break the policy, neither does the new one. And the only thing promised by the policy is unhindered faction vs. faction engagements. We had that before, and we have that now.

[Deleted]

Previous practice didn't break the policy, neither does the new one. And the only thing promised by the policy is unhindered faction vs. faction engagements. We had that before, and we have that now.

The policy is irrelevent, only practice matters.

---------- Post added 2012-12-21 at 01:58 PM ----------

I can provide proof otherwise, in fact feel free to check the active pvp forums here at MMO champ.

Start a thread saying "was world pvp been dead for years before CRZ." When you get a massive influx of "yes ofc it was" feel free to change your position.

[Nerraw]

The policy is irrelevent, only practice matters.

Blizzard's stance on the subject would say otherwise, as seen in the post quoted in the OP. Which is all that really matters.

[Orange Joe]

Start a thread saying "was world pvp been dead for years before CRZ." When you get a massive influx of "yes ofc it was" feel free to change your position.

Halaa, wintergrasp, tol barad, All of those prove you wrong. They all involved world pvp. This is the first expansion we don't have an entire zone dedicated to pvp.

[Deja Thoris]

Blizzard's stance on the subject would say otherwise, as seen in the post quoted in the OP. Which is all that really matters.

Yes because someones stance has NEVER been changed with logic and good debate has it?

"It is, therefore it will always be so" Is that your stance? (If it is it's pretty retarded)

[Orange Joe]

Yes because someones stance has NEVER been changed with logic and good debate has it?

"It is, therefore it will always be so" Is that your stance? (If it is it's pretty retarded)

On something like this where you have the option to opt out. No it isn't retarded.

[Junkdepot]

I keep seeing this constantly:

- Ganking and camping by max-level players has always been the stated intent of PvP realms.

Can someone please show me where that is the stated intent of Player vs Player Realm Policy? For the link impaired:

Player vs Player Realm Policy
Keywords: pvp, player vs player, policy
Player versus Player (PvP) realms are specifically designed to allow open combat between members of the Horde and the Alliance factions. As such, players on these servers have a greater ability to resolve cross-faction disputes on their own. The In-Game Support staff will not intervene in cross-faction player disputes on PvP realms.

...

PvP Realm Policies
Actions that would typically be considered "dishonorable" are considered legitimate PvP tactics and will not be addressed by our Game Master (GM) staff. Actions that fall into this category include, but are not limited to:

Corpse camping.
Tricking players into getting flagged for PvP (i.e. jumping in the middle of another player's area effect spell).
Killing players well below your level.

Just because Blizzard acknowledges that these "dishonorable" actions might occur and that they are not actionable offenses, does not imply that these are the reasons the realms exist.

[BeastmasterGuardian]

Can someone please show me where that is the stated intent of Player vs Player Realm Policy?

Sure. 1st Paragraph:

Player versus Player (PvP) realms are specifically designed to allow open combat between members of the Horde and the Alliance factions.

Ganking is open combat. Pwning is open combat. PvP is open combat. 1v1 is open combat. 5v1 is open combat.

Not sure how much more specific you need it.

Actions that would typically be considered "dishonorable" are considered legitimate PvP tactics

/end thread

---------- Post added 2012-12-21 at 07:24 AM ----------

Yes because someones stance has NEVER been changed with logic and good debate has it?

"It is, therefore it will always be so" Is that your stance? (If it is it's pretty retarded)

Why would a company change a policy it made 8 years ago and updated 4 months ago? The only people that have an issue with PvP are the ones who can't handle what a PvP realm TRULY is... a ganking wonderland.

Reroll... or pay a xfer fee.

/cast Kleenex

[Nerraw]

Yes because someones stance has NEVER been changed with logic and good debate has it?

"It is, therefore it will always be so" Is that your stance? (If it is it's pretty retarded)

If PVP servers are not meant to be free of rules of any kind, then what server-type is? Some of us did roll on PVP because of the thrill of constant danger, not despite it.

[Endus]

I keep seeing this constantly:

Can someone please show me where that is the stated intent of Player vs Player Realm Policy? For the link impaired:

Just because Blizzard acknowledges that these "dishonorable" actions might occur and that they are not actionable offenses, does not imply that these are the reasons the realms exist.

You just quoted it, yourself.

The PvP policy describes the different ruleset for PvP servers, and describes several ways in which it is explicitly intended to be different than the PvE experience. They mention ganking by high level players and corpse camping specifically, though do not limit it to only the actions they list. For instance, creating a raid and destroying an enemy-faction town and all the quest providers within, as well as the guards and any players who show their face, would be perfectly legitimate on a PvP server. That's not specifically mentioned, though, it's covered under the umbrella of "actions that would fall into this category".

They specifically state that ganking and camping is allowed, as a description of the difference between a PvP and a PvE server. That's deliberately stating that the intent of a PvP server is to allow that behaviour to go unchecked.

[BeastmasterGuardian]

They specifically state that ganking and camping is allowed, as a description of the difference between a PvP and a PvE server. That's deliberately stating that the intent of a PvP server is to allow that behaviour to go unchecked.

Exactly:

Player versus Player (PvP) realms are specifically designed to allow open combat between members of the Horde and the Alliance factions.

If this does not sound like an appealing gameplay experience, it is strongly recommended that you select a Player versus Environment (PvE) realm.

Not Blizzard's fault that some people don't read all the rules or research a realm before rolling a character.

[Endus]

If PVP servers are not meant to be free of rules of any kind, then what server-type is? Some of us did roll on PVP because of the thrill of constant danger, not despite it.

That's why I rolled on them. I don't gank people, for the most part. I counter-gank, if it's bad in a zone and my guildmates leveling alts are having issues. I engage in large-scale world PvP. I level alts, and enjoy the extra burst of adrenaline when I see a red name flying overhead and hope they don't look down.

CRZ has rekindled my love for leveling an alt. That's why I take exception to people saying "CRZ has ruined PvP servers", or "it's impossible to level an alt". Those aren't true. It may be that you don't enjoy it, due to the constant threat. I can totally understand that. It's not a "bad thing" to not like the PvP server experience. It's just that there are PvE servers out there, designed to cater to your preferences. And, seeing as those servers exist, and there are plenty of people who really do like PvP servers exactly as they now are (and for the most part once were, at least in ethos and expression), I don't think it's beyond the pale to ask that you play on the server type you enjoy, rather than trying to ruin the PvP experience for those of us who do, actually, enjoy it for what it is.

[BeastmasterGuardian]

CRZ has rekindled my love for leveling an alt. That's why I take exception to people saying "CRZ has ruined PvP servers", or "it's impossible to level an alt". Those aren't true. It may be that you don't enjoy it, due to the constant threat. I can totally understand that. It's not a "bad thing" to not like the PvP server experience. It's just that there are PvE servers out there, designed to cater to your preferences. And, seeing as those servers exist, and there are plenty of people who really do like PvP servers exactly as they now are (and for the most part once were, at least in ethos and expression), I don't think it's beyond the pale to ask that you play on the server type you enjoy, rather than trying to ruin the PvP experience for those of us who do, actually, enjoy it for what it is.

THIS x 1,000,000 +1, Thumbs Up!