US Supreme Court to Hear Case on Same-Sex Marriage

[Infjustice]

The Bible does not contradict itself. People have such a twisted view on the Bible and many do not even know what it says. The Bible has been proven time and time again to be historically and scientifically accurate.

Wait, wait, wait, wait. Please tell me you're joking. Hahahahahahha. Holy shit. As a history major, calling the bible historically accurate is like saying Justin Beiber is a good artist. Scientifically as well? Oh my god the brainwashing you've been through.
Hey, you know that part where it says the Hebrews were slaves in Egypt? Not true at all, in fact Egyptian history was very well kept. They were surprisingly truthful, and they hired Egyptians to build the pyramids. No slaves there.
Do go on though, this is GOLD.

[Shinoashi]

The Bible does not contradict itself. People have such a twisted view on the Bible and many do not even know what it says. The Bible has been proven time and time again to be historically and scientifically accurate.

I do not want to preach the Bible here.. But I will just give a few examples in order to prove my point.

Leviticus 17: 11
"For the life of the flesh is in the blood..."
George Washington died from bloodletting. Bloodletting was a common practice a few hundred years ago. The Bible said it was the source of life hundreds and hundreds of years before it was proven to be true.

Isaiah 41:22
"It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth..."
Again, the earth was proven to be round hundreds of years after this was written.

And for a historical reference.

Deuteronomy 20:17
"But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites..."
Until the Hittite civilization was rediscovered in the 19th century, there was really no evidence of them having ever existed outside of the Bible. Skeptics used this to say that the Bible was historically inaccurate and could not be trusted. But, in the 19th and 20th centuries, the Hittite capital city of Hattusa ( which is modern day Boðazköy in northern Turkey) was discovered, and proved the Bible's historical accuracy.

I think if people actually took the time to read and study and understand the Bible, their opinion on it might be changed. People have such an anti-Bible stance these days, and they don't even have a decent concept of it. Study it, then speak against it if you want. But people just hate any idea of religion, and call the Bible bollocks and discredit anything it says, even though it has been proven to be scientifically and historically accurate.

Again, I am not imposing my religion on others, I was simply stating references to support my opinion.

oh the tired posting scripture to prove how accurate the bible is nonsense....

fact: many books, yes the bible is a good book, nothing more, has used historical points many a time. just because its fucking there doesnt mean that it was published before the event....

secondly religion is frowned upon on these forums. so, honestly, take your religious bullshit and spew it somewhere else please. thanks.

thirdly, who the fuck are you to deny people, whom are tax payers, just like the rest of us, the right to marry who-so-ever the fuck they want? why? because your beloved religion says its bad? go away....

btw, the church didnt even put a hand on marriage until the found out they can make a profit off it.

[Bakis]

Why shouldnt I get the same economic benefits as well. They are denied to me too simply because I chose not to get married and will never do so. I dont want to lose half of everything I own just because one day my wife decides she wants it and files for divorce to go to another man and eventually do the same thing to him.

Why cant we dissolve all government benefits to marriage forever and let the people decide what marriage means to them. Im sick and tired of being screwed over financially by the government because I am not married and have no kids.

They could indeed but that is another issue.
I dont know the details regarding how they are implemented in detail but more towards focusing the simple fact of sharing living, but fundamentally you got a point.
Problem is now that the legislation is effectively descriminating gay couples compared to straight couples, not singles vs couples.

[Vargarii]

No, it's been around for thousands of years. Other cultures may have had same sex unions but that's not the same as now, people also used to get stoned for being gay.

Years before that, it was fairly widely accepted in a number of prominent cultures and societies throughout the years. I fail to see your point. Homosexuality was common and acceptable during greek and roman times, and a number of others. You can't just pick and choose the time periods that suit your argument.

[Puck]

Always something isnt it? You dont get 100% of what you want and its not good enough, yet you expect people to give 100%. There is something called a compromise, something the civil union created.

There will be no compromise, you either accept equality or fade into irrelevance.

[Solzan Nemesis]

FWIW, while I'm a Deist myself, I was raised Anglican, Sunday School, everything. I've read the Bible multiple times, in multiple translations, and prior to college was debating joining the ministry. I've since moved more towards my current Deism, but that has more to do with expanding my religious horizons in the belief that multiple cultures and faiths' interpretations of the God concept are more likely each a flawed but valuable perspective, and coming to true understanding is more likely to require collating and comparing various traditions, rather than declaring one to be the "one true faith" and dismissing all others as garbage. I was close to minoring in theology during my undergrad.

So I take great issue with people who make religious arguments, but who have clearly not even read their own holy texts, let alone the greater field of theological writings based on the original holy books. Statements like implying that Leviticus singled out "homosexuals" as abominations but not other stuff, for instance, are just mind-numbingly false; if you'd actually READ Leviticus rather than just flipping to the passage your pastor said "proves gays are evil", I wouldn't have to post to correct it.

And I don't understand people who claim to be religious but haven't read the texts. It's like claiming to be a mathematician but not understanding how algebra works. You need that basic stuff to have any clue as to what you profess to believe. There's no excuse.

*_*......................................I love you...

[Infjustice]

There will be no compromise, you either accept equality or fade into irrelevance.

Your avatar makes everything you say that much cooler.

[Immitis]

Once again, you cant make the comparison to racial discrimination. The race you are born which you cannot choose does not equal the sexual lifestyle you choose to engage in which you can decide. You want the same rights? then youre free to have them. Just choose someone of the opposite sex to marry.

unless your bisexual you cant choose which sexual lifestyle you want to be a part of

[Endus]

Once again, you cant make the comparison to racial discrimination. The race you are born which you cannot choose does not equal the sexual lifestyle you choose to engage in which you can decide. You want the same rights? then youre free to have them. Just choose someone of the opposite sex to marry.

Sexual orientation is just as genetic as race.

If you seriously think it's a "choice", when did you choose to be straight? How do you handle the attraction you clearly feel for people of the same gender? I mean, it's a choice, right? That is your argument.

Which means your own sexual orientation was a "choice".

I said earlier that I'm straight. I'm straight because a sweaty, toned, shirtless guy with wicked abs does absolutely nothing for me. If it were a girl, that would almost certainly be getting my motor turning. That's HOW I know I'm straight. I can't "choose" to be gay, because the dude is never going to get my motor running like that. I'm just not attracted to him.

But apparently, you are attracted to dudes, and hate that about yourself, and want others to suffer for not making the same "choice". And that's really kind of sad and unfortunate.

[Solzan Nemesis]

unless your bisexual you cant choose which sexual lifestyle you want to be a part of

Wait... Is that why I think sexual lifestyle is a choice?

[Spectral]

FWIW, while I'm a Deist myself, I was raised Anglican, Sunday School, everything. I've read the Bible multiple times, in multiple translations, and prior to college was debating joining the ministry. I've since moved more towards my current Deism, but that has more to do with expanding my religious horizons in the belief that multiple cultures and faiths' interpretations of the God concept are more likely each a flawed but valuable perspective, and coming to true understanding is more likely to require collating and comparing various traditions, rather than declaring one to be the "one true faith" and dismissing all others as garbage. I was close to minoring in theology during my undergrad.

Well, thanks for the perspective! On my own end, I was fairly religious when I was ~12, and slowly edged away from it as I became more educated, finally abandoning whatever remaining pretense of religiosity I had sometime during grad school. I was to be fairly well versed in arguing apologetics, but I don't seem to have much of a stomach for it anymore; my mind immediately just sort of rolls over and says, "this shit again?".

And I don't understand people who claim to be religious but haven't read the texts. It's like claiming to be a mathematician but not understanding how algebra works. You need that basic stuff to have any clue as to what you profess to believe. There's no excuse.

I've always found this absolutely unfathomable. If there were some piece of work that I believed had been written by a deity, or at least inspired by one, I'd read it over and over and over again to make absolutely sure I didn't miss anything. What could possibly be more important? I don't really know what to make of people that say they're Christian, but have never read the Bible. Are they lying about their beliefs? Unspeakably lazy? Shaped by the culture around them, but never stopped to think about what they're saying? I don't get it.

[Immitis]

Wait... Is that why I think sexual lifestyle is a choice?

i mean i dont know for sure since im not bisexual but im only assuming that if someone was attracted to both genders that theoretically if they wanted to they could choose which one they want to be a part of O-O

[Gothicshark]

The Bible does not contradict itself. People have such a twisted view on the Bible and many do not even know what it says. The Bible has been proven time and time again to be historically and scientifically accurate.

I do not want to preach the Bible here.. But I will just give a few examples in order to prove my point.

Leviticus 17: 11
"For the life of the flesh is in the blood..."
George Washington died from bloodletting. Bloodletting was a common practice a few hundred years ago. The Bible said it was the source of life hundreds and hundreds of years before it was proven to be true.

Isaiah 41:22
"It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth..."
Again, the earth was proven to be round hundreds of years after this was written.

And for a historical reference.

Deuteronomy 20:17
"But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites..."
Until the Hittite civilization was rediscovered in the 19th century, there was really no evidence of them having ever existed outside of the Bible. Skeptics used this to say that the Bible was historically inaccurate and could not be trusted. But, in the 19th and 20th centuries, the Hittite capital city of Hattusa ( which is modern day Boðazköy in northern Turkey) was discovered, and proved the Bible's historical accuracy.

I think if people actually took the time to read and study and understand the Bible, their opinion on it might be changed. People have such an anti-Bible stance these days, and they don't even have a decent concept of it. Study it, then speak against it if you want. But people just hate any idea of religion, and call the Bible bollocks and discredit anything it says, even though it has been proven to be scientifically and historically accurate.

Again, I am not imposing my religion on others, I was simply stating references to support my opinion.

No one is doubting the historical accuracy of the bible when it comes to the history of the Jewish people, in fact it is because the Hebrews had the highest literacy rate in the ancient world that their history is so accurate. But at the same time they where an agricultural society and had laws and rules based on this premise as opposed to other nations which had very different economic and literacy rates. Also the idea the world is round can be dated before the passages you point out were written. In fact most ancient society knew the earth was a sphere and the first person to prove it was an ancient Greek. His math was slightly off because he assumed he was at the equator, but he had a fairly good idea the earth was a big ball. It was his work that convinced Columbus to sail to India by heading west in the Atlantic, if he had accurate numbers he may not have made the attempt.

[TequilaFlavor]

I am curious what mmoc'ers would consider as an alternative word then for "marriage" for same-sex individuals?

My first thought was "bondage," but I think there's enough stigma attached to the topic already before throwing that word into the mix as well.

In Germany, same-sex marriage is actually called "Lebens-Partnerschaft", which translates word for word as "partnership for life". "Partnerschaft" just means "being a couple" in "everyday-speech" without strong "marriage connotations" and sounds a bit "technical" to Germans.

Gays can get "married", call themselves a "married couple" and do get the exact same legal treatment as any other married couple in terms of taxes, heritage and divorce rules, but the legal term is not "marriage" (as it is with a man-woman combination) but "Lebens-Partnerschaft" and has a small legal code defining it and basically saying "it's the same as marriage in every way".

And Germany is usually seen as pretty progressive socially, still the different terms exist and no one seems to make a big fuzz over it.

Make of that what you will.

[Vargarii]

The Bible does not contradict itself. People have such a twisted view on the Bible and many do not even know what it says. The Bible has been proven time and time again to be historically and scientifically accurate.

II think if people actually took the time to read and study and understand the Bible, their opinion on it might be changed. People have such an anti-Bible stance these days, and they don't even have a decent concept of it. Study it, then speak against it if you want. But people just hate any idea of religion, and call the Bible bollocks and discredit anything it says, even though it has been proven to be scientifically and historically accurate.

1KI 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

2CH 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem


GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

ISA 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

MAT 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;


Your own example collides with another verse that is only possible with the conecpt of a flat world.

I apologize for being off topic, I just hate when people make these kind of arguments.

[MasterHamster]

Not allowing same-sex marriage is simply disrimination.. there's plenty of legal and economic advantages of being legally married, and denying people that right (human right number 16) is also unconstitutional by definition

[Slybak]

Always something isnt it? You dont get 100% of what you want and its not good enough, yet you expect people to give 100%. There is something called a compromise, something the civil union created.

Give? What exactly are you being asked to give?

You seem to be operating under the assumption that homosexuals exercising the fundamental right to marriage comes at some kind of cost to one of your own fundamental rights, and that this unstated right supersedes their fundamental right to marry. That is a pretty big claim to make when you don't even define the right in question.

[Solzan Nemesis]

i mean i dont know for sure since im not bisexual but im only assuming that if someone was attracted to both genders that theoretically if they wanted to they could choose which one they want to be a part of O-O

My becoming bisexual has all was fault like my choice. But I fine most people disagree with me on that.

[Thage]

I said earlier that I'm straight. I'm straight because a sweaty, toned, shirtless guy with wicked abs does absolutely nothing for me. If it were a girl, that would almost certainly be getting my motor turning. That's HOW I know I'm straight. I can't "choose" to be gay, because the dude is never going to get my motor running like that. I'm just not attracted to him.

Now, this sweaty, toned, shirtless girl with wicked abs...

Can she be Samantha Wright? Because if so, I'm going to need a cold shower.

[Spectral]

Sexual orientation is just as genetic as race.

Well, not quite. One point of contention here would be the use of "genetic" rather than "innate". There's ample evidence that developmental factors including the hormonal concentrations during fetal development contribute to sexual orientation. Also, there's a legitimate argument to be had about whether there's cultural factors that sway people's orientation. One brief discussion can be found here.

More to the point, I think is that it doesn't matter if it's genetic, innate, developed via culture, or an outright choice. That argument's interesting, but it's nothing but a distraction when it comes to legal rights. Even if every single gay person actively chose to be gay (this is obviously not the case), there would still be no valid legal basis for denying them equal protection of the law.