WTF I just did in dalaran

[Deleted]

In a place that was supposed to remain neutral since the Sunreavers were blood elves and the blood elves are the ones who taught magic to the alliance in the first place.

Not Blood Elves, High Elves. High Elves remained in the Alliance.

[Enosh]

she got betrayed twice in the span of a few months
don't betray people constantly, you don't get kicked out of Dalaran, not hard logic to follow

I just wish there was a "I fucking told you so" dialogue option, since in the previous meeting with jaina I told her to throw them out

[Scias904]

"Yo Alliance, we murdered and destroyed everything in Southshore, razed and pillaged almost every Night Elf settlement in Ashenvale, cut a swath of destruction through their ancestral homelands and even went as far as to slaughter neutral Dryads. We dropped a nuke upon a neutral settlement in Stonetalon, razed and almost exterminated everyone in Gilneas so we could build a harbour. And to add insult to injury we tracked some of the Worgen, killed them and used their hides as hats.

But you Destroyed Turajo! How fucking dare you! Monsters!"

When you put it this way, considering this is World of Warcraft, sounds like it sucks to be on the losing side.

[mysticx]

she got betrayed twice in the span of a few months
don't betray people constantly, you don't get kicked out of Dalaran, not hard logic to follow

I just wish there was a "I fucking told you so" dialogue option, since in the previous meeting with jaina I told her to throw them out

This really, i'm not up to the "kick the sunreavers out"-part of the questline, but i have seen the "St Anduin chats with Jaina"-bit (Damn that kid is getting annoying!), and there Jaina expounded at length about how she wants to keep the Kirin tor together, but getting betrayed yet again can change one's point of view dramatically... "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me" and all that.

[Theholypally]

I loved it. Finally the alliance grows a pair.

[Combatbutler]

Not Blood Elves, High Elves. High Elves remained in the Alliance.

They are the same people, different political views, but still the same.

[Powerogue]

The thing I'm missing (only getting bits and pieces of this) is:

Did the sunreavers actually authorize Garrosh marching troops through the Dalaran portals? That seems to be the excuse for this whole purging.

Speaking of purging, we shouldn't have killed arthas, they would have been perfect for one another.

[Wayne25uk]

If you call playing SC2, all C&C games, all AoE games, all Civilization games, all LotR:BfME games, among others laughable... then yeah, I agree with you, but I've spent most of my life (Since the PS1 when I was like 7) playing RTS games as they are my favorite genre, not to mention I love history and battle tactics etc. I watch all the shows and try to understand what the commanders of battles did right/wrong etc.

I watch the tournaments too, to understand why everyone is doing what they are doing too, I am no expert by all means, but I consider myself to have a higher than average understanding of battle tactics from the ancient world up until modern times, but as i said... I'm no expert, hence. "From the PoV of someone who plays a lot of strategy and tactical games"

Ok you sound young so il put it into different terms since i was playing games since the early 80s,the tactics you think you are so great at are all false im afraid,the computer is made to react to specific variables and its just an AI,the real world enemy would never react the way you think it does on games,its just programmed to be that way to make the game playable. If you truly believe that playing strategy games makes you a viable commander then im afraid you are suffering from delusions my dear boy.

[rogueMatthias]

in response to the Dalaran arguments...
1) People are fogetting that this is only months after ANOTHER Horde "spy" in the Sunreavers just helped to destroy Theramore and kill the previous leader of the Kirin Tor. Two very significant Horde victories both could only have been achieved from having help from the Sunreavers. Aethas should have locked down the Sunreavers to investigate and find any other traitors before Jaina stepped up to do so, but he did nothing.
2) The Sunreavers ARE responsible. They are responsible for their own group and the people within it, just like any military organisation. Though it was only a few responsible, there was MORE than enough evidence that the parties involved were working heavily with the Horde, despite of the Kirin Tor and that them using Dalaran for Horde gains was becoming a real possibility. Sunreavers should have dealt with the problem and the threat. They chose not to and to ignore it.
3) Jaina gave them the oportunity to all leave peacefully. They refused this. Even after this she was still taking prisoners, she didn't even kill Aethas. She was locking down the Sunreavers, presumably until they could get to the bottom of it all. It was only the Sunreavers that fought back with violence that were killed. Not much of a choice given presumed outcomes, but they could have kept themselves alive just by going peacefully and waiting for diplomacy to sort things out. They chose to kill instead of being imprisoned so I have no hesitation mowing them down.

[Combatbutler]

in response to the Dalaran arguments...
1) People are fogetting that this is only months after ANOTHER Horde "spy" in the Sunreavers just helped to destroy Theramore and kill the previous leader of the Kirin Tor. Two very significant Horde victories both could only have been achieved from having help from the Sunreavers. Aethas should have locked down the Sunreavers to investigate and find any other traitors before Jaina stepped up to do so, but he did nothing.
2) The Sunreavers ARE responsible. They are responsible for their own group and the people within it, just like any military organisation. Though it was only a few responsible, there was MORE than enough evidence that the parties involved were working heavily with the Horde, despite of the Kirin Tor and that them using Dalaran for Horde gains was becoming a real possibility. Sunreavers should have dealt with the problem and the threat. They chose not to and to ignore it.
3) Jaina gave them the oportunity to all leave peacefully. They refused this. Even after this she was still taking prisoners, she didn't even kill Aethas. She was locking down the Sunreavers, presumably until they could get to the bottom of it all. It was only the Sunreavers that fought back with violence that were killed. Not much of a choice given presumed outcomes, but they could have kept themselves alive just by going peacefully and waiting for diplomacy to sort things out. They chose to kill instead of being imprisoned so I have no hesitation mowing them down.

All your points were answered pages ago, let this thread die.

[kage]

It's like at the beginning of the Alliance Jade Forrest questline when the order came down to kill unarmed Horde soldiers who were attempting to surrender. One of the themes of this expansion is the ethics and morality of war.

[Deleted]

Dont even think about comparing Garrosh to the Alliance, looks like many forget what the Alliance did years before.

Nothing Garrosh does could even reach the cruelty of the humans who caged Orc's, man, women and child alike, let them starve to death for years.

This Internment camps are 100 times worse then Theramore.

Im not protecting Garrosh in any shape or form, he's a stupid warmonger but those camps are the peak of disgusting treatment in the history of Warcraft.

[kage]

in response to the Dalaran arguments...
1) People are fogetting that this is only months after ANOTHER Horde "spy" in the Sunreavers just helped to destroy Theramore and kill the previous leader of the Kirin Tor. Two very significant Horde victories both could only have been achieved from having help from the Sunreavers. Aethas should have locked down the Sunreavers to investigate and find any other traitors before Jaina stepped up to do so, but he did nothing.
2) The Sunreavers ARE responsible. They are responsible for their own group and the people within it, just like any military organisation. Though it was only a few responsible, there was MORE than enough evidence that the parties involved were working heavily with the Horde, despite of the Kirin Tor and that them using Dalaran for Horde gains was becoming a real possibility. Sunreavers should have dealt with the problem and the threat. They chose not to and to ignore it.
3) Jaina gave them the oportunity to all leave peacefully. They refused this. Even after this she was still taking prisoners, she didn't even kill Aethas. She was locking down the Sunreavers, presumably until they could get to the bottom of it all. It was only the Sunreavers that fought back with violence that were killed. Not much of a choice given presumed outcomes, but they could have kept themselves alive just by going peacefully and waiting for diplomacy to sort things out. They chose to kill instead of being imprisoned so I have no hesitation mowing them down.

Your missing one little detail. Even in fantasy settings indeed even in ones with "War" in their name violence should never be the only solution. The Sunreavers were part of the Kirin Tor and ergo citizens of Dalaran. In civilised society you do not hand down an order to kill, imprison, or exile one demographic of you population based on their race or political affilations because a few of them have committed treason.

[kmwcane]

Dont even think about comparing Garrosh to the Alliance, looks like many forget what the Alliance did years before.

Nothing Garrosh does could even reach the cruelty of the humans who caged Orc's, man, women and child alike, let them starve to death for years.

This Internment camps are 100 times worse then Theramore.

Im not protecting Garrosh in any shape or form, he's a stupid warmonger but those camps are the peak of disgusting treatment in the history of Warcraft.

I'd say the Orcs coming through the dark portal and slaughtering humans is much worse than anything the Aliiance has ever done and thus the peak of disgusting treatment in the history of Warcraft. But hey, that's just me!

[Florena]

Dont even think about comparing Garrosh to the Alliance, looks like many forget what the Alliance did years before.

Nothing Garrosh does could even reach the cruelty of the humans who caged Orc's, man, women and child alike, let them starve to death for years.

This Internment camps are 100 times worse then Theramore.

Im not protecting Garrosh in any shape or form, he's a stupid warmonger but those camps are the peak of disgusting treatment in the history of Warcraft.

The treatment of the Orcs in the internment camps was a lot better than what the Horde would have done to the Alliance if they'd won that war. The orcs ought to be grateful they weren't slaughtered altogether, as if the Horde had won they'd have wiped out humanity and the rest of the Alliance. Both sides have done questionable things, but don't act like the camps were made just because the alliance are big meany heads.

[kage]

Dont even think about comparing Garrosh to the Alliance, looks like many forget what the Alliance did years before.

Nothing Garrosh does could even reach the cruelty of the humans who caged Orc's, man, women and child alike, let them starve to death for years.

This Internment camps are 100 times worse then Theramore.

Im not protecting Garrosh in any shape or form, he's a stupid warmonger but those camps are the peak of disgusting treatment in the history of Warcraft.

The interment camps are inexcusable, but it is equally inexcusable to whitewash that every man and woman in those camps had set foot on Azeroth to commit genocide against the native inhabitants and take the land as their own. You can argue which is the more unjust act into eternity, but both happened and neither was just.

On another note while understand your outrage the original posters point. He/she/other merely said that he/she/other didn't feel that the Purge was how a hero should behave. Neither faction was even mentioned.

[Florena]

And while I'm sure the alliance was far from kind to the orcs in the camp, part of what made it miserable for them was also the lethargy that came from their demonic taint and not from the Alliance.

[blackblade]

The interment camps are inexcusable, but it is equally inexcusable to whitewash that every man and woman in those camps had set foot on Azeroth to commit genocide against the native inhabitants and take the land as their own. You can argue which is the more unjust act into eternity, but both happened and neither was just.

On another note while understand your outrage the original posters point. He/she/other merely said that he/she/other didn't feel that the Purge was how a hero should behave. Neither faction was even mentioned.

Amusing part is, many of those people who ran those camps are likely Forsaken now.

[kage]

Amusing part is, many of those people who ran those camps are likely Forsaken now.

You have a point. Honestly never even thought of that.

[AlisonPrime]

Hmmm this is not what the Alliance do....

Yes, Indeed, The alliance would never hire a group of people to help clean up stormwind after the first war and then refuse to pay them the promised ammount. They wouldn't riot against the newly unionized group (which resulted in the death of Tiffin Wyrnn). Then in an act of revenge order the death of said unionized group, the leader being murdered infront of his own daughter. Then years and years later order the death of said daughter. Yes, we alliance are 100% innocent and should be viewed in the light above the brutish horde.

We are not a perfect race, our ideals and such change when we see the death of loved ones. Wyrnn wasn't an asshole to the Defias Brotherhood until his wife was murdered by them, leaving anduin motherless. Jaina didn't become a hellraising bitch until the deaths of her friends and people at the hands of Gay-Rash. As a soldier in the alliance, its not your place to judge right and wrong and go against the orders of your king and superiors. You may carry this guilt your entire wow life, but in the end, you can only hope it leads to a better path for your people.

The Sunreavers helped the Horde get into Darnassus to steal the bell. This may have been the act of one single elf on their part, however he was part of the group and they had to be purged from dalaran. I like to hope when the betrayer is found, and alive, he will be punished for not only the crime of treason, but all the murders of the innocent we were forced to preform.

Like I said, War is bloody and horrible. I enjoyed the Dalaran story, but i didnt enjoy having to kill fleeing elves. Except the female ones....cmon, girl's waist is too fucking thin and makes me jealous...