Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Deleted]

No. This is a product of our gun culture, not the definition of it.

I don't think you can make uncultural things cultural if you cojoin them with the word culture.

Thug-culture is as much cultural as gun-culture is.

[Ghostpanther]

It's why police officers feel they need to go down the use of force continuum to begin with.

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You keep leaving questions unanswered.

Why are police in America overusing force?

In the great majority of the cases it is because the ones they take down are armed or attacking them. Or they are waving around a gun look-a-like because the manufacturers are allowed to make air pistols which look like the real thing. In other words, accidents. But ones which could be prevented with some legislation on what air guns can look like.

[petej0]

You keep leaving questions unanswered.

Why are police in America overusing force?

It isnt guns if that is what you are looking for. Guns does not explain away taser and other non-police shooting deaths where the victim isnt armed or armed with something other then a gun.

Ask a cop why they are overusing force. Ask them why they use a taser when it wasnt justified.

It has been going down. Overall crime has been going down. The media however fails to mention that little tidbit at times, for their own little political agenda benefit. :P

If anything, it is a slow trending down with peaks here and there

http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-...data/year.html

[TZucchini]

No. This is a product of our gun culture, not the definition of it.

I don't see how those two things are different in the least. A culture of permissive gun laws and a love/fascination of firearms leads to the highest per capita rate.

[Ghostpanther]

interesting read



very interesting

It is and I think the number one highest ( decline in family and parenting values ) issue listed is the real problem with crime in the US. It also shows that access to guns is pretty low compared to most others.

[PhaelixWW]

do you think not keeping track of number of civilians shot is because of the paperwork involved?

Do you think that not having a "civilians killed by law enforcement" category on the UCR is an intentional omission?

[Ghostpanther]

If anything, it is a slow trending down with peaks here and there

http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-...data/year.html

The list only shows it to 1917? And we surely know how much the population has increased since then. So we need to look at the % rate, not numbers so much. A lot more cops out there now than in 1917. Plus I was referring more to civilians being killed by the police. A study in 2011 shows 610 killed. The latest data shows 320 in 2013. As the crime rate goes down, the number of criminals killed by police will decline also.

[Mayhem]

It is and I think the number one highest ( decline in family and parenting values ) issue listed is the real problem with crime in the US. It also shows that access to guns is pretty low compared to most others.

makes no sense when the crime rate is declining

[petej0]

The list only shows it to 1917? And we surely know how much the population has increased since then. So we need to look at the % rate, not numbers so much. A lot more cops out there now than in 1917.

It goes back to 1791, but your point is taken.

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makes no sense when the crime rate is declining

Doesnt matter. It just means that crime today, people feel is because of family values.

[Mayhem]

Do you think that not having a "civilians killed by law enforcement" category on the UCR is an intentional omission?

no, i am wondering though that number of bullets fired is being tracked, but number of civilians killed is information useless enough for not keeping track of

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Doesnt matter. It just means that crime today, people feel is because of family values.

well ghostpanther wrote that´s the real problem

[Ghostpanther]

makes no sense when the crime rate is declining

Huh? Yes it does. The lack of strong family values and good leadership within too many families is still the number one reason for crime and a lack of responsibility in my opinion and apparently one which was shared by most in that poll.

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well ghostpanther wrote that´s the real problem

It is one of the major contributors to crime. The crime rate has been declining mainly for 2 reasons, Law enforcement has got better and more criminals have been taken off the streets.

[Mayhem]

Huh? Yes it does. The lack of strong family values and good leadership within too many families is still the number one reason for crime and a lack of responsibility in my opinion and apparently one which was shared by most in that poll.

if a decline in family values is the number one reason for the crime rate then a declining crime rate would mean an increase in family values, or do you mean a decline in family values is the number one reason for a declining crime rate?

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It is one of the major contributors to crime. The crime rate has been declining mainly for 2 reasons, Law enforcement has got better and more criminals have been taken off the streets.

well if you have numbers to back this up

other than that we probably don´t have to talk about what people feel is the problem for the crime rate

[Ghostpanther]

if a decline in family values is the number one reason for the crime rate then a declining crime rate would mean an increase in family values, or do you mean a decline in family values is the number one reason for a declining crime rate?

Read my post above this one.

[PhaelixWW]

I don't see how those two things are different in the least. A culture of permissive gun laws and a love/fascination of firearms leads to the highest per capita rate.

And I'd argue that recent efforts at pushing useless gun control agendas has had a more major impact on the number of gun purchases and the per capita rate lately.

[Mayhem]

And I'd argue that recent efforts at pushing useless gun control agendas has had a more major impact on the number of gun purchases and the per capita rate lately.

i can agree with that, pushing useless agenda isn´t helping anybody except the ones that get money out of it

[Ghostpanther]

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well if you have numbers to back this up

other than that we probably don´t have to talk about what people feel is the problem for the crime rate

You like to post charts. Read these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarce..._United_States the prison population going up can coincide with a decline in the crime rate. It is common sense it would. However this may not stay this way. The Obama administration has started releasing more prisoners who he feels are minor drug offenders, which explains the small decrease we are seeing the last 2 - 3 years. How much this will impact the over all crime rate remains to be seen. Hopefully it will not contribute to another increase. Maybe they learned their lesson.

[NineSpine]

You like to post charts. Read these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarce..._United_States the prison population going up can coincide with a decline in the crime rate. It is common sense it would. However this may not stay this way. The Obama administration has started releasing more prisoners who he feels are minor drug offenders, which explains the small decrease we are seeing the last 2 - 3 years. How much this will impact the over all crime rate remains to be seen. Hopefully it will not contribute to another increase. Maybe they learned their lesson.

The problem with your argument is that the decline in crime was experienced across the industrialized world, not just in the United States, so connecting it to the rise in incarceration rates is a spurious correlation, as the incarceration rates were not increasing across the industrialized world.

[Ghostpanther]

The problem with your argument is that the decline in crime was experienced across the industrialized world, not just in the United States, so connecting it to the rise in incarceration rates is a spurious correlation, as the incarceration rates were not increasing across the industrialized world.

If you remember correctly....I did say it was one reason, along with better law enforcement. But it still stands to reason a decline of criminals out on the streets could have a positive impact on the crime rate. The better law enforcement not only can solve crimes, but lock up or fine those who do commit them.

[NineSpine]

If you remember correctly....I did say it was one reason, along with better law enforcement. But it still stands to reason a decline of criminals out on the streets could have a positive impact on the crime rate. The better law enforcement not only can solve crimes, but lock up or fine those who do commit them.

It also "stands to reason" that giving more people felony records and then putting them back out on the street should make crime worse. "Standing to reason" proves nothing, not even possibility, as a variety of incompatible ideas can "stand to reason". You are just providing hypothesis for why crime went down, and you are acting as though your hypothesis are valid because they could be true. I don't care what could be true. I care what IS true.

[Ghostpanther]

It also "stands to reason" that giving more people felony records and then putting them back out on the street should make crime worse. "Standing to reason" proves nothing, not even possibility, as a variety of incompatible ideas can "stand to reason". You are just providing hypothesis for why crime went down, and you are acting as though your hypothesis are valid because they could be true. I don't care what could be true. I care what IS true.

What is true? What is your explanation for the decrease in the crime rate in the US and also in other countries? Name the other countries, along with a comparison to the rates in the US, with prison populations, etc.