Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[ohiostate124]

You mean the soldiers wouldn't kill their civilian friends and families?!

- - - Updated - - -



Of course they would.

Of course. People don't seem to understand that the military is just a bunch of regular people. No one just BLINDLY follows orders.

[Breccia]

Need a breather from the Comey thread.


Bob Owens, Editor of 2nd Amendment Blog, Dead From Self-Inflicted Gun Shot

From what I understand, he was kind of a big name in the field and will be missed.

[TITAN308]

Supposedly he was well known. I never heard of him personally. Then again I only follow TTAG and TFB in regards to blogs.

[Daelak]

You're fucking kidding, right? You do realize that the military swears to defend the Constitution before the President, right?



Wow. Just... wow.

You're seriously comparing the fanaticism of Syrian military doctrine with US military doctrine?

You are off in fairytale land now. The military is revered because of their deference to the chain of command, that is exactly why we are feared around the world. You are smoking some good shit if you believe that the military would stand down an order against an enemy labeled by the CoC, CENTCOM, etc., no matter where they are.

Yeah, they are both disciplined militaries who do what they are ordered to do. We aren't some loosely arranged Sub-Saharan African military.

- - - Updated - - -

You mean the soldiers wouldn't kill their civilian friends and families?!

- - - Updated - - -



Of course they would.

And they would be summarily court marshaled. You are putting way to much stake into some weird hollywood version of the military full of conscientious objectors.

[PhaelixWW]

You are off in fairytale land now. The military is revered because of their deference to the chain of command, that is exactly why we are feared around the world.

What the actual fuck...

No, nonononono. The US military is "feared" (and respected) around the world because of its training and its equipment, not its blind devotion to following orders.

Feel free to post some supporting shit that indicates that the US military is feared because it blindly follows orders.

You are smoking some good shit if you believe that the military would stand down an order against an enemy labeled by the CoC, CENTCOM, etc., no matter where they are.

If that attack was directed at a civilian population in the US itself, many of them absolutely would. Like I said, not 0%, but not 100%.

Yeah, they are both disciplined militaries who do what they are ordered to do.

You just described, in extremely vague terms, every single military in the world. All militaries will "do what they're ordered to do"... most of the time. But no military, ever, follows every single order blindly. And on the spectrum of militaries likely to follow illegal and immoral orders, the US military is nowhere near the top.

And they would be summarily court marshaled. You are putting way to much stake into some weird hollywood version of the military full of conscientious objectors.

I never said that nobody would follow such an order. I said that some unknown percentage of the military, when faced with the kind of tyrannical government we're hypothetically talking about, would feel duty-bound to uphold the Constitution and actually fight back against the government at that point.

Some would follow the order and fire. Some would refuse to fire and be arrested. Some would break from the military and actively fight back against the corruption.

[Zoranon]

You're seriously comparing the fanaticism of Syrian military doctrine with US military doctrine?

Even in Syria, the official military has pretty much disintegrated and many soldiers deserted. Fighting there is done by volunteers from Iran and Lebanon mostly.

The idea that military are mindless automatons that will happily kill their own citizens when ordered to is ridiculously stupid.

[TITAN308]

In most military codes it is actually written you can be court marshaled for not disobeying an unlawful order.

[Daelak]

What the actual fuck...

No, nonononono. The US military is "feared" (and respected) around the world because of its training and its equipment, not its blind devotion to following orders.

Feel free to post some supporting shit that indicates that the US military is feared because it blindly follows orders.



If that attack was directed at a civilian population in the US itself, many of them absolutely would. Like I said, not 0%, but not 100%.



You just described, in extremely vague terms, every single military in the world. All militaries will "do what they're ordered to do"... most of the time. But no military, ever, follows every single order blindly. And on the spectrum of militaries likely to follow illegal and immoral orders, the US military is nowhere near the top.



I never said that nobody would follow such an order. I said that some unknown percentage of the military, when faced with the kind of tyrannical government we're hypothetically talking about, would feel duty-bound to uphold the Constitution and actually fight back against the government at that point.

Some would follow the order and fire. Some would refuse to fire and be arrested. Some would break from the military and actively fight back against the corruption.

Those are all big things that contribute to US military superiority, but the one that will always be stronger than bombs and carrier groups is the breaking down of the individual in training to fight as a cohesive unit, this is why desertions are low. Our units are so well-trained that they won't care or won't find out until there would be some time of reckoning/judgement. The military via de-humanization of our enemies, makes it incredibly easy for soldiers both close range combat and drone operators, to engage and eliminate their target, hardly taking a second's notice whether the target were innocent US civilians or a terrorist cell in the US.

The ones fighting would have no idea whether it would be civilian population or not, it would be on a need to know basis.

The US military is far and away on top of the list in terms of overall levels of orders executed without exception, if we weren't we wouldn't have the strong military we have had today.

I think that percentage would be incredibly low, and when a certain percentage of the military did start to object, desert, fight, they would be purged.

- - - Updated - - -

Even in Syria, the official military has pretty much disintegrated and many soldiers deserted. Fighting there is done by volunteers from Iran and Lebanon mostly.

The idea that military are mindless automatons that will happily kill their own citizens when ordered to is ridiculously stupid.

Haha ok buddy, whatever helps you sleep at night.

The idea that the fweelings of some soldiers wouldn't be met with a court martial or worse if they disobeyed commands is fiction. Soldiers are trained to follow orders and work as a unit, and militaries around the world have killed civilians on orders, irrelevant if they were even hostile to begin with.

[Rooflesstoofless]

Need a breather from the Comey thread.


Bob Owens, Editor of 2nd Amendment Blog, Dead From Self-Inflicted Gun Shot

From what I understand, he was kind of a big name in the field and will be missed.

One day I'm going to figure out why the same group that can't understand body autonomy is also the same group most likely to take their own life with a gun.

[TITAN308]

One day I'm going to figure out why the same group that can't understand body autonomy is also the same group most likely to take their own life with a gun.

I'm not sure I see the connection between suicide and a legitimate concern that this is in the same bathroom as your 10 year old daughter:

[PhaelixWW]

I'm not sure I see the connection between suicide and a legitimate concern that this is in the same bathroom as your 10 year old daughter:

I think all the talk about gender neutral bathrooms are only talking about single-user bathrooms, so nobody should be in the bathroom with anybody else in the first place.

[TITAN308]

I think all the talk about gender neutral bathrooms are only talking about single-user bathrooms, so nobody should be in the bathroom with anybody else in the first place.

I don't want Wanda from In Living Color in a multi-person bathroom with my daughter either. I'm not sure what you want me to say. lol

[Deleted]

You are off in fairytale land now. The military is revered because of their deference to the chain of command, that is exactly why we are feared around the world. You are smoking some good shit if you believe that the military would stand down an order against an enemy labeled by the CoC, CENTCOM, etc., no matter where they are.

Yeah, they are both disciplined militaries who do what they are ordered to do. We aren't some loosely arranged Sub-Saharan African military.

- - - Updated - - -



And they would be summarily court marshaled. You are putting way to much stake into some weird hollywood version of the military full of conscientious objectors.

You have no understanding of the military if you think we would do anything like that. We are not the Syrians, and the use of chemical weapons is unlawful, so is the full scale massacre of civilians. In the military there is a thing such as unlawful orders, and if such an order given nobody would follow it. I guarantee that. We are disciplined, and highly skilled, true. But we are not psychopathic murderers. Especially not against our own people. I, as a soldier in the United States Army, would never follow such an order.

[Ghostpanther]

You have no understanding of the military if you think we would do anything like that. We are not the Syrians, and the use of chemical weapons is unlawful, so is the full scale massacre of civilians. In the military there is a thing such as unlawful orders, and if such an order given nobody would follow it. I guarantee that. We are disciplined, and highly skilled, true. But we are not psychopathic murderers. Especially not against our own people. I, as a soldier in the United States Army, would never follow such an order.

Thank you for your service. And well stated post. I think some have no idea what it is like in the military and have these misguided ( political? ) concepts which are not true. Having served 3 years myself and have a son now who is a Major in the US Army, I know what I am talking about, as you do.

[Deletedaccount1]

You have no understanding of the military if you think we would do anything like that. We are not the Syrians, and the use of chemical weapons is unlawful, so is the full scale massacre of civilians. In the military there is a thing such as unlawful orders, and if such an order given nobody would follow it. I guarantee that. We are disciplined, and highly skilled, true. But we are not psychopathic murderers. Especially not against our own people. I, as a soldier in the United States Army, would never follow such an order.

execute order 66

[Deleted]

Those are all big things that contribute to US military superiority, but the one that will always be stronger than bombs and carrier groups is the breaking down of the individual in training to fight as a cohesive unit, this is why desertions are low. Our units are so well-trained that they won't care or won't find out until there would be some time of reckoning/judgement. The military via de-humanization of our enemies, makes it incredibly easy for soldiers both close range combat and drone operators, to engage and eliminate their target, hardly taking a second's notice whether the target were innocent US civilians or a terrorist cell in the US.

The ones fighting would have no idea whether it would be civilian population or not, it would be on a need to know basis.

The US military is far and away on top of the list in terms of overall levels of orders executed without exception, if we weren't we wouldn't have the strong military we have had today.

I think that percentage would be incredibly low, and when a certain percentage of the military did start to object, desert, fight, they would be purged.

- - - Updated - - -



Haha ok buddy, whatever helps you sleep at night.

The idea that the fweelings of some soldiers wouldn't be met with a court martial or worse if they disobeyed commands is fiction. Soldiers are trained to follow orders and work as a unit, and militaries around the world have killed civilians on orders, irrelevant if they were even hostile to begin with.

You clearly have never been near the military. This isn't Star Wars, we're not Stormtroopers, kiddo. I am trained to follow lawful orders, not unlawful. What you're describing is illegal for me to do in the US Army. I am trained not to follow orders like that. Stop talking out of your ass.

[Deletedaccount1]

Daelak does make a good point. If soldiers can disobey orders because they are wrong, why did the Jedi get killed?

[Ghostpanther]

Daelak does make a good point. If soldiers can disobey orders because they are wrong, why did the Jedi get killed?

They could be related to the extent they both represent fantasy. :P

[Deleted]

Daelak does make a good point. If soldiers can disobey orders because they are wrong, why did the Jedi get killed?

We thought the Jedi were a bunch of baby seals

[Nihilist74]

I had no particular reason to post this. I just really like it. Especially the bill at the end hold the bomb and going, "whoot! whoot!".