Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[styvan01]

You could be right. But we do not know for certain. What we do know, is the officer confronted him before he shot himself as he was shot in the hand by the officer, the same time he pulled his trigger to kill himself. And let us assume another person who was intent on shooting others, a officer responding quickly would not have made any difference?

You are absolutely right. We will never know, but I would like to believe from people who I talk to who actually know Austin, that this is the case as well as supported by evidence.

[Kiri]

What's unbelievable is that anyone thinks there is such a thing as "removing guns". You'd never get them all, there are more than there are people, perhaps even by a multiple or so. And it's certainly not like you can uninvent them. Forgot 3D printing, you better be ready to ban jigs, drill presses, dremel tools, and, y'know, plastic if you don't want the ample available knowledge for people to just make them themselves. "Can't stop the signal".

Yeah, getting all the guns would be impossible. But I do not think a lot of people really want to do that. At least I never heard that as a serious proposal. Stricter controls, yeah. I mean, even with those, most of the good guys would still be able to have their guns. The goal seems usually to keep them out of the hands of criminals and/or unstable people.
But I personally think what is more important is not to get rid of guns. It is limiting or changing gun culture. In US culture, guns are portrayed as instruments of freedom, as god-given rights that give people strength, rather than dangerous tools that need to be used responsibly. Yes, yes, a lot of gun owners do preach that and take it to heart. But we are talking culture here, especially including media and other such things. Guns are cool. Guns are what solves problems. Guns make you right. Those are messages sent to the youth of America. I mean, heck, some of the most popular movies of the recent decades have people exchanging witty banter while casually shooting and killing other human beings. Sure, those guys usually shoot the bad guys, but 'good' and 'bad' are entirely subjective.

Doing something about this culture might go a long way in combating gun violence. It would likely be more effective than any attempt to just take away guns.

[sarahtasher]

A few stories in this one:

Shadowferal, this video (from 2013, which is old...) feature, I counted, 6 cases

1 from 2012
1 from 2010
1 I can't figure out
1, excuse me, being attacked by 4 guys with firearms, that does not EXACTLY strike me as law abiding citizen.
1 gang case
1 from 2005

Again, to find something akin to the numbers proposed by the NRA, you would need to find at least cases like this for A SINGLE DAY. Not six things spread over six a decade.

(I repeat : the NRA says there are '' 2 million'' stories like this per year. Even if allow Republican style hyperbole and put it down to 200 000, with 99% of those stories ignored by the eeebil SJW media, it would still leave 2000 cases per year. Not 200 cases per 20 years.

[Stormdash]

Doesnt matter, all of those are guns being shot in school grounds.
I highy doubt the statistics have shots while school is in or out of session though.

I've had 1 incident in my country where a PARENT shot another parent.
You've had 17 incidents since january.
Something is wrong, no?
Because in most countries this stuff doesnt happen.

It doesn't matter if intellectual integrity doesn't matter. The fact is stats on "school shootings" are only as useful as the mutual understanding of what "school shootings" refers to. The audience of that stat obviously thinks of "school shootings" as mass casualty attacks upon students while school is in session. The people compiling that stat know this damn good and well and yet report a vast majority of incidents that do not fit that definition as "school shootings" to that audience. That is called "lying" in a lot of circles.

But you can stop kids from having guns if they dont have access to the black market.
Which is a lot of people.
Not everyone has access to the black market of guns.
This at least can stop some shootings, no?

Like they've stopped people in countries where they are banned from getting them? Again, this is unicorn chasing candyland nonsense. Humanity doesn't uninvent things. The path only goes one direction. The extant knowledge of these weapons exists, so unless you plan on banning the ordinary commercial materials and household tools required to roughly slap one together, what have you got even if you could fantasy-land wish all manufactured guns into the void?

[Mullet Man]

Just try and watch the facts from above. In a simple way.

-You live in a country where 18 year olds can buy a gun. (really unbelievable)
-In your country, since January you had 17 school shootings, suicides, accidents, actuall shootings, doesnt matter. A gun was shot in school grounds 17 times since january. (really unbelievable)
-Your solution, instead of removing guns to the masses is giving more guns to people at school to shoot the kids holding a gun. Your solution is more guns!??!?!?!!?

Really, you live in a crazy world. Most countries had zero shootings in schools so far this year.

You didn't answer the question. Let me restate it:
Let me what you would change in regards to the current gun laws that would make a difference?

In response to your comments:
#1
An 18 year old can vote and be drafted into the military. In the eyes of US Law they are an adult.
If they are an adult they should be afforded all rights of a US adult including gun ownership and drinking.
I agree that we can debate on whether an 18 year old is the correct age for these responsibilities. I offered some suggestions in a previous post.

#2
Pointing out a problem doesn't solve that problem. I argue that we need additional resources for mental health, and that is the only real way to make a change in the USA that will have the desired affect.

#3
My solution? Where did I purpose this solution? In a perfect would we wouldn't need to arm anyone. We don't live in that perfect world, and pretending that it exists if we just take away guns is naive. So what do you do? One solution suggested is providing interested teachers with gun safety training and the ability to carry on school grounds if they desire and are vetted. If you have a better solution the world is all ears.

[Stormdash]

Shadowferal, this video (from 2013, which is old...) feature, I counted, 6 cases

1 from 2012
1 from 2010
1 I can't figure out
1, excuse me, being attacked by 4 guys with firearms, that does not EXACTLY strike me as law abiding citizen.
1 gang case
1 from 2005

Again, to find something akin to the numbers proposed by the NRA, you would need to find at least cases like this for A SINGLE DAY. Not six things spread over six a decade.

(I repeat : the NRA says there are '' 2 million'' stories like this per year. Even if allow Republican style hyperbole and put it down to 200 000, with 99% of those stories ignored by the eeebil SJW media, it would still leave 2000 cases per year. Not 200 cases per 20 years.

The federal government opted for "between 500k and 3 million"... either end of that range is more frequent than violent gun crimes, btw.

[Deleted]

Like they've stopped people in countries where they are banned from getting them? Again, this is unicorn chasing candyland nonsense. Humanity doesn't uninvent things. The path only goes one direction. The extant knowledge of these weapons exists, so unless you plan on banning the ordinary commercial materials and household tools required to roughly slap one together, what have you got even if you could fantasy-land wish all manufactured guns into the void?

In countries where guns are banned there isnt any "school gun incidents" (lets call them whatever you like)
And your argument now is that people can just manufacture a gun at home? Come on...who even knows how to do that?

Here at home and on my parents house, nobody knows how to have a gun.
1) Very strict laws
2) We dont know any black markets of guns

Neither me or my family knows how to have a gun. Cool right?
Thats how things should be in a normal country.

[sarahtasher]

The federal government opted for "between 500k and 3 million"... either end of that range is more frequent than violent gun crimes, btw.

When the FBI report for the entire year around 1.5 million crimes that could be stopped by firearms (murders, rapes, robberies, burglaries) and 5 millions various larcenies, does it strike you as possible that 2.5 million were stopped with a gun ?

[Stormdash]

You seem to be under the impression that you are engaging in some kind of debate. You are not. You are not intellectually capable of it. You are this dribbling, whining piece of sub-literate animalistic dogshit, like your retarded president. I have no idea why any one is humouring disgusting individuals like you with anything resembling argument.

When I think of the great orators and debators, when I think of Lincoln-Douglas, I think of people dismissing the words of others as "blah blah blah" and then deeming them as intellectually incapable of debate.

Wow, what a cunt.

The master debater.

[sarahtasher]

When I think of the great orators and debators, when I think of Lincoln-Douglas, I think of people dismissing the words of others as "blah blah blah" and then deeming them as intellectually incapable of debate.



The master debater.

Well, your side is down to insults based on poultry. And it devolved recently even lower, to the point of bragging about not having raging dysentry when drinking milk (which, I hate to tell you that, have way more to do about bacterial fauna in the intestines than genetics...)

[Mullet Man]

And your argument now is that people can just manufacture a gun at home? Come on...who even knows how to do that?

https://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Zip-Gun

[Deleted]

We don't live in that perfect world, and pretending that it exists if we just take away guns is naive. So what do you do?

But you can restrict people from having guns.
I dont know for sure what laws but you want to hear my best one?

Restrict to age of 23 or 25.

Seems like a good age to me.
People usually finished school by then.
And there is no reason to have a gun at age 18-25.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Zip-Gun

I very much prefer that crappy weapon than a full auto assault rifle or any kind of weapon with more than 1 bullet :S

[Mullet Man]

But you can restrict people from having guns.
I dont know for sure what laws but you want to hear my best one?

Restrict to age of 23 or 25.

Seems like a good age to me.
People usually finished school by then.
And there is no reason to have a gun at age 18-25.

If 23 or 25 was the age you became a legal adult, I would agree.
It is currently set at 18 for the USA.

I agree that this can be debated and possibly moved up.
But I think that all rights that go along with being a legal adult should match this age, including voting and drinking.

- - - Updated - - -

I very much prefer that crappy weapon than a full auto assault rifle or any kind of weapon with more than 1 bullet :S

Current USA gun laws do now allow people to get a full auto assault rifle, outside of some very very specific exceptions.

[Deleted]

But I think that all rights that go along with being a legal adult should match this age, including voting and drinking.

Voting and drinking is not dangerous though.
Ok, drinking is dangerous, but still less dangerous than a human being holding a gun.

People are unpredictable sometimes. We are fragile beings.
If we give fragile beings access to guns like they are candy...its bound to be chaos at some point in time.

[Mullet Man]

Voting and drinking is not dangerous though.
Ok, drinking is dangerous, but still less dangerous than a human being holding a gun.

People are unpredictable sometimes.

Sure... but if you are considered an adult in the eye of the law, and can be conscripted, then you should be afforded all the rights of an adult.

Previously, I offered ideas on how we could grant some of these rights to non-adults based on merit.

[lockedout]

But you can restrict people from having guns.
I dont know for sure what laws but you want to hear my best one?

Restrict to age of 23 or 25.

Seems like a good age to me.
People usually finished school by then.
And there is no reason to have a gun at age 18-25.

- - - Updated - - -



I very much prefer that crappy weapon than a full auto assault rifle or any kind of weapon with more than 1 bullet :S

What reason at 23-25 do you all of a sudden have a reason to have a gun that you didn't have at 18?
So no weapons should have more than 1 bullet? Muskets for everyone?

[Antiganon]

Just to put this out there for everyone saying "teach kids about guns, then they will understand and want guns instead of gun control":

I was taught about guns from the age of 7.

I owned this 20ga Mossberg 500 Bantam at age 12.
I had a hunting license.
I was in the woods, in a blind, in coveralls with an orange vest, at 4am, every Saturday and Sunday of deer season when I was at my Dad's house.
I understand why guns are an essential part of civil rights in the US.
I have no interest in taking them away from law abiding citizens.
I will be purchasing a handgun (likely a Glock 9mm) and a shotgun (likely a Mossberg 500) for home defense when finances permit.
I will get a CWL for the handgun.
I will request my wife do the same, and we will get her a handgun as well if she wants.
I will teach my young son and daughter about guns, what they can do, and how to use them responsibly, when they are old enough (10 unless they ask younger, any older and they will 100% have bad information else).

So please understand that when I advocate for better enforcement and background checks, it is because our current laws have loopholes you can drive a mack truck through, and our current enforcement is woefully inadequate, in addition to some truly egregious oversights that need to be corrected.

For me, at least, its far less about the guns than it is who has access to them, and how easily.

[Deleted]

You cant ban people from beeing stupid. Just look at Europe, we have more strick gun laws then the U.S. and people still get shoot in EU, a ban on weapons in America (or anywhere) wount change anything. Throwing hand grenades in to peoples windows is illegal in Sweden, yet it happens. Flying airplanes in to buildings is illegal...
Shooting heroin in the bathroom is illegal, yet people does it. A ban doesnt meen anything, a ban doesnt change anything.

Everyone understans you dont need an assault weapon to "hunt a deer", but when it boils down, what do you really need ?
You dont need a 65" tv to watch tv (you can watch tv on a 32" tv), you dont need a sports car to drive (you can drive a Kia Rio), you dont need AC in the summer in Miami (you can take a swim in the ocean if your warm).

Now im not an American (im a Swede) I do not own a gun, I do not plan on ever owning a gun, I do not care if they ban guns totaly in the U.S or give you a gun when you get gas at the gas station as a extra "thank you for getting gas here". BUT a ban is a false safe feeling, educate people is the better option.

[Deleted]

What reason at 23-25 do you all of a sudden have a reason to have a gun that you didn't have at 18?
So no weapons should have more than 1 bullet? Muskets for everyone?

18y olds are still childs.
Because in your mid twenties you probably got out of school. Isnt that the problem? "School" shootings.

[Antiganon]

This lawyer says they can be charged https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/c...a-1758814.html

let me see if I can find a example of a conviction......http://www.mtmlegal.com/Criminal_Def...d_Robbery.aspx while not a case of a conviction, I did find this part interesting and does support the fact you do not exactly have to have a weapon to be found guilty of armed robbery

Under the Official Code of Georgia Annotated (OCGA) §16-8-40, an armed robbery is a "robbery committed with an offensive weapon, any replica of an offensive weapon, or a device having the appearance of any such weapon."

If an individual is carrying a weapon, while carrying out a robbery, even if he/she does not use that weapon, police officers, prosecutors and judges are likely to assume that the individual intended on using that weapon. Even if you only put your hand in your pocket and led someone to believe you were in possession of a gun, you could be charged with armed robbery.

So no convictions then?

Thanks for playing.