Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Wells]

But then owning a gun wouldn't be so scary that most people are too afraid to exercise their rights to do so.

Assuming fear is why people choose to not own guns does you no favors

[Daelak]

My point wasn't that lower numbers of guns wouldn't necessarily lower gun violence. My point was that you were basically talking about introducing legislation that would specifically target the law-abiding solely for it's secondary effect on criminals. Basically, "I can't punish you, so I'm going to punish your neighbor (even though they're innocent) in the hopes that it deters or negatively impacts you."

If you want to talk about cracking down, you can make the impact more significant for people committing crimes with a firearm. Mandatory double sentencing for crimes involving a firearm. No possibility for parole.

At least those would be laws that punish the criminal gun owners and not the law-abiding gun owners.

I thought we had pretty stringent laws against firearm crimes. I understand why people would have a problem with gun-owners going through more hoops, but I think the benefits and perceived deterrence they have are over-pronounced.

Correct me please if I am misinformed, but I thought gun ownership was on the decline historically, but now a minority of gun owners know have a large stash of firearms (10+).

[Gemini Sunrise]

Assuming fear is why people choose to not own guns does you no favors

It'd be pretty dishonest to assume that it isn't the case for SOME of them (fear of their kids getting into it, etc).

[Wells]

It'd be pretty dishonest to assume that it isn't the case for SOME of them (fear of their kids getting into it, etc).

Sure for some of them. But let's also not forget fear is one of the explicit arguments made in favor of gun ownership. Fear of criminals. Fear if government etc

[Gemini Sunrise]

Sure for some of them. But let's also not forget fear is one of the explicit arguments made in favor of gun ownership. Fear of criminals. Fear if government etc

Of course, of course. Just your post seemed a bit absolute in my view, so I brought it up again. /shrug

[Tinykong]

Assuming fear is why people choose to not own guns does you no favors

If you ignore cost, what reason is there to expressly not own a gun other than the fear of what might happen with it?

It's an inanimate object, merely owning one doesn't grant it special powers.

[Wells]

If you ignore cost, what reason is there to expressly not own a gun other than the fear of what might happen with it?

It's an inanimate object, merely owning one doesn't grant it special powers.

I don't need a reason to not own a gun. I need a reason to own one. I have no reason. Clearly fear driven

[Gemini Sunrise]

If you ignore cost, what reason is there to expressly not own a gun other than the fear of what might happen with it?

It's an inanimate object, merely owning one doesn't grant it special powers.

Lack of interest perhaps. Which is their choice, really.

[Tinykong]

I don't need a reason to not own a gun. I need a reason to own one. I have no reason. Clearly fear driven

You missed my point.

Why do you not want to own a gun? Not wanting something isn't apathetic.

---------- Post added 2013-06-07 at 08:17 PM ----------

Lack of interest perhaps. Which is their choice, really.

Ok, so "I don't want to own a gun because they don't interest me" is a reason. But why don't they interest you? All the reasons for not wanting a gun stem from what a gun is and does.

[Gemini Sunrise]

Ok, so "I don't want to own a gun because they don't interest me" is a reason. But why don't they interest you? All the reasons for not wanting a gun stem from what a gun is and does.

For those that would view it as a hobby and little else (ie: They don't see self-defense as a valid reason to own one)? Perhaps target shooting doesn't give them a rise as a good game of chess might? As such, it's worthless to them to buy more ammo and continue going. Therefore, little point in having the weapon in the first place.

In this case, it's a case of money invested vs. enjoyment.

[Tinykong]

For those that would view it as a hobby and little else (ie: They don't see self-defense as a valid reason to own one)? Perhaps target shooting doesn't give them a rise as a good game of chess might? As such, it's worthless to them to buy more ammo and continue going. Therefore, little point in having the weapon in the first place.

There is a difference between "I have no interest in owning a gun" and "I do not want to own a gun." One of them implies an emotional response (i.e. fear) causing the person not to want one. The other is an apathetic stance because one has no purpose for a gun.

Anyone who has such a strong anti-gun opinion is probably steeped in fear of firearms, whether it's rational or irrational.

[Wells]

You missed my point.

Why do you not want to own a gun? Not wanting something isn't apathetic.

---------- Post added 2013-06-07 at 08:17 PM ----------



Ok, so "I don't want to own a gun because they don't interest me" is a reason. But why don't they interest you? All the reasons for not wanting a gun stem from what a gun is and does.

I understand just fine. I do not want a gun because I have no reason to own one. I do not want things I have no need for. "What a gun is" has nothing to do with it.

---------- Post added 2013-06-07 at 08:43 PM ----------

Your efforts to paint anyone who does not want a gun as afraid I'd stupid.

[Tinykong]

I understand just fine. I do not want a gun because I have no reason to own one. I do not want things I have no need for. "What a gun is" has nothing to do with it.

You do understand the difference between "I don't want to own a gun because I don't need one" and "I do not want to own a gun" right?

[Wells]

You do understand the difference between "I don't want to own a gun because I don't need one" and "I do not want to own a gun" right?

I'm really not interested in your usual weak arguments based on semantics

[Tinykong]

I'm really not interested in your usual weak arguments based on semantics

Hey, more hand waving because you refuse to answer the question at hand.

I've been talking about people who explicitly do not want to own a gun. Not wanting one because you don't care about them is a different mindset.

However, I'm not surprised at your hand waving, your irrational fear of guns has been well established in this thread and many others. Pro-tip: the sky isn't falling.

[Landin55]

If you ignore cost, what reason is there to expressly not own a gun other than the fear of what might happen with it?

It's an inanimate object, merely owning one doesn't grant it special powers.

Actually yeah, a gun is like superpowers, give it to the right man and you can have another man killed almost a mile away. And it wasn't some complicated future machine, or a team of people, just one guy with a gun. I'm just pointing out that a gun can make the impossible possible for anyone. A clearly crazy guy with a knife, well he can do some damage sure, but a clearly crazy guy with his families guns? He becomes 3 times the killer.

[Tinykong]

Actually yeah, a gun is like superpowers, give it to the right man and you can have another man killed almost a mile away. And it wasn't some complicated future machine, or a team of people, just one guy with a gun. I'm just pointing out that a gun can make the impossible possible for anyone. A clearly crazy guy with a knife, well he can do some damage sure, but a clearly crazy guy with his families guns? He becomes 3 times the killer.

There are probably less people capable of using a firearm to kill someone at a 1 mile range than there are people who posted in this thread.

[Wells]

Hey, more hand waving because you refuse to answer the question at hand.

I've been talking about people who explicitly do not want to own a gun. Not wanting one because you don't care about them is a different mindset.

However, I'm not surprised at your hand waving, your irrational fear of guns has been well established in this thread and many others. Pro-tip: the sky isn't falling.

Why do you think I'm afraid of guns? Surely you of all people wouldn't just be making shit up.

[Landin55]

There are probably less people capable of using a firearm to kill someone at a 1 mile range than there are people who posted in this thread.

How about kids huddled in a classroom?

[Tinykong]

Why do you think I'm afraid of guns? Surely you of all people wouldn't just be making shit up.

You've posted quite a few times in this thread how they are force multipliers, how killings and violence are on the rise, how high capacity magazines contribute to lethality and body counts, etc., etc., etc. with links to all kinds of fear mongering drivel about the epidemic of violence and climate of death we are living in.

It's all bullshit. Gun violence is down. You're more likely to die falling down the stairs inside your home than you are to die in a mass killing. Millions of guns are used every year without causing a single death or in an unlawful manner.

Violence and crime are the exception, not the rule.

Quite a few posts back, I referred to people who explicitly do not want to own a gun. Not wanting to own one because you don't need it is an entirely different mindset than I was talking about. Those people are operating out of fear.

---------- Post added 2013-06-07 at 09:11 PM ----------

How about kids huddled in a classroom?

Considering how rarely that happens, I'd wager my assertion applies to that situation, as well. Mass killings are an extremely rare event.