Patch 5.2 Warlock discussion

[Greywardenn]

I have been looking for confirmation - but I can't find anything. The two guesses are 20% and 15%.

I find it quite unbelievable that people have spent 16-18 weeks of coins and gotten 1 item or 3 items. That just doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, at the very least it's supposed to be the same as actual LFR drop rate. Have you guys gotten only 1 item out of all these weeks of LFR? Duplicate items count.

I don't use tokens on LFR but have used them since the expansion launched for raids and have received two items,...my first was about 2-3 weeks in and my second was last night lol

[Deleted]

I really didn't get what you wanted to say there

What i meant was, give the ability to use Havoc as a single target damage increase aswell (duplicating the spells onto the same target) so that then we can either choose to use it for cleaving or as a small single target damage CD, but to do this the copied spell(s) would need to be uneffected by grimoire of sacrifice as it would make it the go to talent, Hope this is clearer

[randa]

I stopped using tokens on bosses that drop items that I already have, even if I own only one item that boss has on his loot table and I need the other one. I have been burned 3 times now, with duplicates, so this increase to a maximum number of tokens that we can hold on is very welcomed by me.

[Zathrendar]

As for destro, I think gameplay-wise it's better than it has ever been. In WOTLK it was a decent rotation, Cata made it fairly more clunky with ISF and finally MOP has distinguished it from demo and fire, giving the spec a wide array of dps tools and the ability to do away with the imp.

[Deleted]

It's the same thing isn't it? I offered feedback that HoG design in 4.0 was bad because your reforges for the evening depended on whether your Shadow Priest showed up or not. Blizzard agreed it was stupid, and even took on my suggestion to put the 6s duration on Cremation in place of the Hellfire radius increase. I offered feedback that Corruption was unwieldy being refreshed by Touch of Chaos, they disagreed, I got on and got used to it. That's how feedback works.

I don't see PvP or dailies or VP capping as mandatory content, so I don't push myself to do them. I just got over the fact that doing them was pissing me off and stopping me doing what I wanted to do so I stopped and do what I'd rather do instead. I'm not going to waste hours getting lost in stupid minutiae which might once per expansion make enough difference to make one less pull. It's called perspective.

Yes its same thing - so if we have 4 SAME things - and you like 2 of them and 2 dislike, you wont be mad if blizzard would do same. Thats subjective.

But objectively if 4 things are SAME - you should use SAME politics for all of them. Blizzard decided that "HoG issue" - mostly "skill/lag" issue than any other, that makes only few % less DPS isnt "just a choice that players made", but on the other hand "forcing" ppl to spend lot of hours a week to get those few % more DPS is ok. That behavior is called hypocrisy.

[Deleted]

I have been looking for confirmation - but I can't find anything. The two guesses are 20% and 15%.

I find it quite unbelievable that people have spent 16-18 weeks of coins and gotten 1 item or 3 items. That just doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, at the very least it's supposed to be the same as actual LFR drop rate. Have you guys gotten only 1 item out of all these weeks of LFR? Duplicate items count.

I've never had any great luck with loot in WoW, but yeah every week, 3 coins, so far I only got 2 items and that was the first two coins I spent. across two level 90 toons I've received a total of 4 LFR drops since each tier became available also.

[Deleted]

What i meant was, give the ability to use Havoc as a single target damage increase aswell (duplicating the spells onto the same target) so that then we can either choose to use it for cleaving or as a small single target damage CD, but to do this the copied spell(s) would need to be uneffected by grimoire of sacrifice as it would make it the go to talent, Hope this is clearer

Oh ok that has already been proposed on these forums, thing is you would have around the same DPS in single target and cleave fights (an additionnal immolate isn't a real DPS increase ) : doesn't strike me as a good idea since we would probably get nerfed eventually :s
And what about double Chaos Bolt on the same player ?

[Deleted]

Oh ok that has already been proposed on these forums, thing is you would have around the same DPS in single target and cleave fights (an additionnal immolate isn't a real DPS increase ) : doesn't strike me as a good idea since we would probably get nerfed eventually :s
And what about double Chaos Bolt on the same player ?

I think a solution to that is to just not let ember consuming spells be duplicated while using Havoc on your primary target, the thing is it means that we still get more bonus on cleave, but it isint as dramatic as now when compared to single target, the problem is that the spell would have to be uneffected by Grimoire of sacrifice to keep everything in check.

[Scathbais]

I've never had any great luck with loot in WoW, but yeah every week, 3 coins, so far I only got 2 items and that was the first two coins I spent. across two level 90 toons I've received a total of 4 LFR drops since each tier became available also.

Unfortunately rng is rng. I received 3 lfr tier tokens in one day (head, shoulders, and legs) without using any coins. I probably got at least 10 lfr items just from running them every week. My coin rolls, I save for normal/heroics have been pretty lucky as well: 489 neck, 496 ring, 496 offhand, 2x the same 496 chest and the 496 EoT trinket. I have won a few others that I don't recall.

---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 02:50 PM ----------

Yes its same thing - so if we have 4 SAME things - and you like 2 of them and 2 dislike, you wont be mad if blizzard would do same. Thats subjective.

But objectively if 4 things are SAME - you should use SAME politics for all of them. Blizzard decided that "HoG issue" - mostly "skill/lag" issue than any other, that makes only few % less DPS isnt "just a choice that players made", but on the other hand "forcing" ppl to spend lot of hours a week to get those few % more DPS is ok. That behavior is called hypocrisy.

/makes popcorn, extra butter

---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 02:58 PM ----------

Another issue with Destruction is stat weightings and gearing; since Havoc is so important to cleaving, and Sac has such good synergy, there'll still be no reason not to go Sac there all the time because of the change in stat priorities. I know I don't like playing without a pet, and it puts me off playing Affliction, it makes me wonder how many other Warlocks feel the same about being so railroaded.

I agree that stat weights are a problem with destro. Having to reforge dependent upon a grimoire is a bit silly. But I think Destro without a pet is just fine. In my mind, if we don't sacrifice our minions they will wind up getting french-fried by our embers anyway.

[xskarma]

"forcing" ppl to spend lot of hours a week to get those few % more DPS is ok. That behavior is called hypocrisy.

That's the same old tired "dailies are bad and I'm forced to do them"-debate. People have differing opinions about what "forced" means, and this is not the place to harp on about them. You've been dragging things into the discussion that have nothing to do with the original point (which I had to go through the thread to find actually)

Yes - same story as with:

- we are not forcing you do get 3 gold coins every week
- we are not forcing you do get 1000 valor points every week

etc.


After so many years playing this game you are still getting very general post as something important ?

Which was in reply to the scaling post GC made that Jessicka linked. What on earth does scaling have to do with dailies?! There's nothing in that post GC made that even remotely signifies anything to do with dailies or people being forced into anything.

I suggest you drop this subject and get back on the actual topic of this thread: the 5.2 patch and any changes being made that effect warlocks.

[Strafer]

dem green icons

maybe now the quest line is availabe

[Jessicka]

Yes its same thing - so if we have 4 SAME things - and you like 2 of them and 2 dislike, you wont be mad if blizzard would do same. Thats subjective.

But objectively if 4 things are SAME - you should use SAME politics for all of them. Blizzard decided that "HoG issue" - mostly "skill/lag" issue than any other, that makes only few % less DPS isnt "just a choice that players made", but on the other hand "forcing" ppl to spend lot of hours a week to get those few % more DPS is ok. That behavior is called hypocrisy.

The difference is who's making the choice. In my case, I made the complaint, Blizzard made the decisions. In your case, you're making the complaint, but it's entirely in your hands to make the decision as to whether you go out and do it. To say those things are mandatory if you don't pick the best race, the best computer hardware, the best broadband connection, the best people the raid with and so on, all of which will offer similar increments, then how can you possibly argue that dailies are mandatory? How can you argue you need the gear from VPs or Coins if someone else has already beaten the boss without it?

---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 07:44 PM ----------

I have been looking for confirmation - but I can't find anything. The two guesses are 20% and 15%.

I find it quite unbelievable that people have spent 16-18 weeks of coins and gotten 1 item or 3 items. That just doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, at the very least it's supposed to be the same as actual LFR drop rate. Have you guys gotten only 1 item out of all these weeks of LFR? Duplicate items count.

I think it's closer to 5%. They say it's about the same chance of winning something in the old system, so 15-20% that it drops in the first place, then competing with 3-4 other players for it.

---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 07:46 PM ----------

I agree that stat weights are a problem with destro. Having to reforge dependent upon a grimoire is a bit silly. But I think Destro without a pet is just fine. In my mind, if we don't sacrifice our minions they will wind up getting french-fried by our embers anyway.

I disagree, but if it wasn't already clear, Sac is pretty much anathema to me; each to their own

[Ezzyo]

The lack of warlock changes in the recent notes is fairly unnerving. Wish KJC would get moved around to passive, or nerfed. It's simply too much against their policy of making all 3 talents in a tier equally unappealing.

[Deleted]

And again an haste buff, with the Legendary meta... :/
Not going to help close the gap between Aff & the rest.

[Rustjive]

I think it's closer to 5%. They say it's about the same chance of winning something in the old system, so 15-20% that it drops in the first place, then competing with 3-4 other players for it.

That math doesn't work out. Binomial distribution of 5% drop, 25 person sample size means that in any given kill there is roughly 27% chance that no one gets anything. The mean number of items is 1.25.

If we consider the mean number of items to be dropped by any boss in a 25-person LFR to be 5, then 20% chance is accurate. If the mean number of items dropped is 4, then the chance of a drop for any individual person is 16%.

Honestly, both 15% and 20% sound plausible - the lowest probable number is 12% (3 pieces of gear on average drop per kill over the entire raid). I really think that a lot of people are writing off duplicates as the same as gold, when they're not.

Edit: at 12% my own personal results get really out of whack. I can personally remember 13 pieces from coins - I would not be surprised if the actual number was 15. With 48 coins, that puts my mean at 5.76 pieces, with a stddev of 2.25. Means I had 1-in-50000 luck. At 16% my luck is 1 in 500.

[xskarma]

And again an haste buff, with the Legendary meta... :/
Not going to help close the gap between Aff & the rest.

Mhmm, even if you went Supremacy the gap with Affli would grow is my guess, due to Affliction having more benefit from it. (not mentioning the fact that Havoc cleaving is what's keeping Destro afloat at the moment. Even with this you'd loose on single target so being good at cleaving is what you need to do to keep up.)

[Scathbais]

And again an haste buff, with the Legendary meta... :/
Not going to help close the gap between Aff & the rest.

Would be better if it affected our Dark Soul stat instead of haste.

[Nerraw]

Wait, did they change KJC in some way? I've been out of the loop for a bit, but did they change it away from the current 5.1 model? (Which fucking rocks)

Last I heard they're removing the activated part of it. The passive stays the same way as now.

[Ezzyo]

Last I heard they're removing the activated part of it. The passive stays the same way as now.

Correct, and that's the issue as the previous poster mentioned. It's TOO good. In mop, a talent being too good is a bad thing to have. I can't think of one situation where I would ever use the on use as is. If it was a life or death where you couldnt get by with the movement speed decrease, you're still better off using FF then putting it on a minute cd.

I have a tinfoil feeling the lack of changes and the epic questline are just to take the edge off the last minute execution of KJC by firing squad. Poor destro!

[Jessicka]

Actually, KJC isn't always desirable and certainly has varying value depending on spec (i.e. as good as it is for Affliction, it's nowhere near as good for Demo; Destro it's somewhere in between). If you're not making use of it because you're using Fel Flame instead a lot to avoid the slow then you might be better off taking AV.