Patch 5.2 Warlock discussion

[Deleted]

Why wouldn't you use it?

Because it's a zero dps increase and wastes a glyph slot that I could be using on something actually beneficial?

[Mezz123]

So as of right now between the 3 classes which shows the most dps. I'm an aff lock and the nerf is not gonna sway me but for my secondary spec I would like to choose the optimal of the 2.

[Viggers]

The ranged melee attack had nothing to do with ToC not being castable while HoP was on you; that happened because ToC was in it's original incarnation built as a melee swing when it was called Demonic Slash in both Meta and DA forms. I guess this was another undocumented fix in 5.1 however, as it's not something that's been reported since so far as I can see.

oh ok. wow, never knew that thanks for the info!

[xskarma]

So as of right now between the 3 classes which shows the most dps. I'm an aff lock and the nerf is not gonna sway me but for my secondary spec I would like to choose the optimal of the 2.

I'd wait with that question till we get the tuning pass underway. It shouldn't be long now, as GC said they were in the middle of it (meaning we'll start seeing something next build I think)

[Kink]

So, anyone planning on race changing to a Troll for 5.2? mainly for the bonus of Beast Slaying and this patch containing a majority of beast bosses and rares. Berserking and the reduction of movement impairing effects are always nice too. I'm thinking this is an affliction only switch if grim of sac is still viable on the release of the patch and orc still staying ahead for demo/supremacy destro.

[Ezzyo]

I hate racials with such a passion. Not saying that because of my alliance lock or anything. Nevermind, I am.

[Deleted]

I hate racials with such a passion. Not saying that because of my alliance lock or anything. Nevermind, I am.

I was about to tell you that it's just a minor minor dps increase, but then I stopped and slapped myself. All the minor minor things add up and lead to awesomeness!
I was once a human, who became a worgen, who became an orc! The 100% crit trinket is a massive nerf to the worgen racial, dunno if anybody considered that. It's minor minor minor, but as previously stated, it all adds up. Orc (or 5.3 troll!) power!

[Deleted]

on the PTR, our demonic gateway is despawning...

again!

[Bonkura]

Got Breath of the Hydra from LFR. It seems to have a ridiculously inconsistent proc rate even for Affliction. Some times I get a new proc after less than 30 secs and next time having to wait 2 mins for the next one. I spent 10 mins on a dummy and it had an uptime of 20% from the trinket (compared to 43% from Light of the Cosmos).

Edit: 21% uptime as Destro after 10 mins on dummy with RoF rotation. It can proc from RoF.

[Deleted]

I hope that doesn't mean they are using their PPM system on trinkets... -_-

[Bonkura]

yeah it seems like a 2PPM trinket. zzzz

[xskarma]

I hope that doesn't mean they are using their PPM system on trinkets... -_-

That's just what I was thinking. They've used it on the weapon enchants, and I'd allready figured they'd put it into use for more things if it was a succes. (no idea what they'd consider a succes, but w/e)

I wonder what that would do for the skill cap if all trinkets were now unpredictably going off withh the new RPPM system. It'd mean no more keeping tabs on ICD's and such AND no more taking advantage of trinkets proccing roughly at the same time. Not sure if I'd like that, even if I suck at taking advantage from ICD's on a consistent basis.

[Zinnin]

I think PPM on trinkets is crap design. A lot of what makes slower resources like fury or emberbits interesting is that we can bank and plan ahead for trinket procs, without having a good idea on when procs are going to happen we aren't going to take full use out of our resource systems.

Weapon enchants are fine because the procs are small enough that they aren't really something you dump resources into. Trinkets though, especially as we get further into the expansion and trinket procs become more on par with DS, are super important things for us to be able to effectively react too.

I kind of get the feeling that they are trying to move towards PPM so the game isn't all about blowing everything on the pull, which is something they've talked about in the past. The complete lack of an on use trinket next tier makes me qqqqqq.

[xskarma]

I think PPM on trinkets is crap design.

Well we're not sure if every trinket does this, or just this one (as it seems to). GC gave us plenty of information about trinket procs and ICD's at one point during beta, so let's hope he (or they) do that again.

I kind of get the feeling that they are trying to move towards PPM so the game isn't all about blowing everything on the pull, which is something they've talked about in the past.

Wouldn't surprise me the least. I think if they move to this RPPM system for more things it cuts out most of the big stacking you can do which makes it harder for them to balance classes and keep classes and specs equal.

I also don't think they'll see it as a negative side effect that RPPM will make PvE trinkets less interesting for PvP (even if the effects themselves are still very good)

On the plus side, I just realised they may be able to make trinket procs more powerful and interesting when you can't count on them anymore to occur when you want them and stack things for them. This may not actually be a bad thing.

Then again this might just all be completely beside the point if it turns out these new trinkets mostly work just like the old ones we've had, and I'm speculating about things they haven't even considered.

[Count Zero]

Sounds like a good question for a GC tweet. Pithy question, yes/no answer.

Aaaand just asked him.

[villie]

Don't like the sound of this change, purely cause it puts the my mastery stacking GoSac banking embers for procs playstyle in the toilet, tho i can see the plus side if they were to buff our overall damage to compensate due to pure rng and limits on trinket proc's. I can only see rotations becoming easier and dumbed down with this change tho, especially affliction. Seems i maybe stacking haste, casting CB whenever its up and running with a mongo'ing pet 5.2 if this change ends up being legit.

[Bonkura]

You can still stack embers... you will just be more likely to dump them on smaller procs from professions/enchants.

[Jessicka]

I think PPM on trinkets is crap design. A lot of what makes slower resources like fury or emberbits interesting is that we can bank and plan ahead for trinket procs, without having a good idea on when procs are going to happen we aren't going to take full use out of our resource systems.

Weapon enchants are fine because the procs are small enough that they aren't really something you dump resources into. Trinkets though, especially as we get further into the expansion and trinket procs become more on par with DS, are super important things for us to be able to effectively react too.

I kind of get the feeling that they are trying to move towards PPM so the game isn't all about blowing everything on the pull, which is something they've talked about in the past. The complete lack of an on use trinket next tier makes me qqqqqq.

Looks more like a PvP thing to "fix" burst issues/keep PvE gear out of PvP.

[villie]

You can still stack embers... you will just be more likely to dump them on smaller procs from professions/enchants.

Yer but whether or not stacking mastery and spending on those procs is going to provide as close a dps comparison to just stacking haste and running with GoSup is the question, being tailoring/engineering will almost required to run with the spec i guess (tho tbh i'd imagine most destro sac specs would use those proff if they have any sense regardless)

Looks more like a PvP thing to "fix" burst issues/keep PvE gear out of PvP.

The pvp power and 1mins on pvp trinkets are better than any in game pve trinket, and proc trinkets are horrible due to lack of control, your forced to burst when u don't want to or when your opponents still have defensive cds. The only way i would see ppl using a pve proc trinket in pvp atm are humans and blow everything out of the gates comps, and a ppm would actually be a buff to that playstyle as theoretically you could have back to back procs.

[Jessicka]

The pvp power and 1mins on pvp trinkets are better than any in game pve trinket, and proc trinkets are horrible due to lack of control, your forced to burst when u don't want to or when your opponents still have defensive cds. The only way i would see ppl using a pve proc trinket in pvp atm are humans and blow everything out of the gates comps, and a ppm would actually be a buff to that playstyle as theoretically you could have back to back procs.

Well this is the thing, a PvE trinket with an on-use 2-3min cooldown such as those we've seen in the past, does risk PvP desirability due to such cooldowns being typically more powerful than shorter, 1 minute ones (exactly why the PvP ones were nerfed in the first place). Also, regular ICD proc trinkets are much more predictable, making them easier to stack with on use abilities than RPPM procs - which is exactly the problem we're talking about. In both cases, these changes can only make PvE trinkets less desirable for PvP than they already are.