Aethas Sunreaver should not lead the Sunreaver Onslaught

[Lighto73]

Play the Alliance version.

You have no idea how many were involved, just that the Sunreavers were the ones.

As such, what was done was justified. And again, She ARRESTED them. The ones who were killed were the ones who ATTACKED her, Vereesa, or the player. God forbid they defend themselves.

They're an ARMY, not civilians. If one person steps out of line, they all get punished. It's with that with every army in the real world.

By this logic, the Jews should have just let themselves be arrested, and they should have been killed for not wanting to be arrested for not committing any crimes.

Just because it happens in the real world, doesn't make it right.

[TheDangerZone]

Actually, just because members of a faction, which tries to remain neutral, end up going behind that faction leaders back doesn't make the faction leader a bad leader, not when his ideals were for something good. Its just rotten eggs in a clutch of fresh ones.

Aethas though should be part of this, Jaina came in from nowhere, took leadership, and ruined everything he worked for, and even killed innocent people he was leading. He owes it to those sunreavers to get back at the kirin tor and spill some of there blood.

I think that Aethas knew that some of his Sunreavers where helping Garrosh. For the horde player and Nazgrim is common knowledge that the Sunreavers are helping Garrosh, at no point they are secretive about this. Either Aethas "looked the other way" as Jaina put it, or he is incredibly incompetent to keep tabs on his own people. This does make him a bad leader, he is either duplicitous or he just can't keep his people in check.

So I'm glad that Aethas is not in charge of this (sides, he still has to be too emotionally shaken to lead anyone) if Rommath had been the one in Dalaran, things would have gone completely different. As it is, I'm happy that is Theron the one leading; with Halduron and Romath maybe joining hin in the Onslaught, maybe he could leave Liadrin in charge of Silvermoon.

---------- Post added 2012-12-23 at 01:48 AM ----------

Have you played horde and alliance side, or just getting an alliance only perspective. Of course the alliance one is trying to convince you, the alliance player, that your side is right and thats the only way to interpret events. Try playing from the hordes side and see just how innocent the alliance is.

Having just played the horde side, Jaina doesn't kill and teleports to the violet hold, and the Silver covenant doesn't use lethal force unless there's resistance, neither they kill the VIP's in the Sunreaver sanctuary.

[Deleted]

So I'm glad that Aethas is not in charge of this (sides, he still has to be too emotionally shaken to lead anyone) if Rommath had been the one in Dalaran, things would have gone completely different. As it is, I'm happy that is Theron the one leading; with Halduron and Romath maybe joining hin in the Onslaught, maybe he could leave Liadrin in charge of Silvermoon.

Lor'themar siding him out shows that Aethas was indeed incompetent. It was Aethas ineptitude with the Sunreavers "traitors" that led to Lor'themar's plan of joining up the Alliance failing, forcing Silvermoon to go against Dalaran.

[Falrinn]

Lor'themar siding him out shows that Aethas was indeed incompetent. It was Aethas ineptitude with the Sunreavers "traitors" that led to Lor'themar's plan of joining up the Alliance failing, forcing Silvermoon to go against Dalaran.

I'm thinking Blizzard should of named the new Horde faction the "Silvermoon Onslaught" or "Sin'dori Onslaught" rather then the "Sunreaver Onslaught", and then simply used Aethas and any other VIP Sunrevers as secondary characters. I think the fact Lor'themar is leading the offensive has less to do with Aethas being incompetent and more to do with Lor'themar needing some more time in the spotlight. For example he has yet to pledge himself to the rebellion, which I would be very surprised if it didn't happen in 5.2.


As for the Purge of Dalaran, it's a little off topic and honestly anyone who sees it as a black and white subject will be arguing until the end of eternity because it's not a black a white subject. Was Jaina justified in making a move against the Sunreavers? Yes. Were her methods extremely harsh even under the circumstances? Yes. Despite the harshness of her actions, is the fact she opted not to commit full blown genocide on the Sunrevears notable? Yes. All that considered, did she cross the line? I don't know, depends on where you think the line is. You can see why this is a problematic subject.

[Arbs]

Nah, I prefer to have Lor'themar as a Warchief and have others focus on the offensive.

Rexxar will be Warchief, the story is there. you just gotta look with open eyes & see the timbits.

[Deleted]

I think that Aethas knew that some of his Sunreavers where helping Garrosh. For the horde player and Nazgrim is common knowledge that the Sunreavers are helping Garrosh, at no point they are secretive about this. Either Aethas "looked the other way" as Jaina put it, or he is incredibly incompetent to keep tabs on his own people. This does make him a bad leader, he is either duplicitous or he just can't keep his people in check.

So I'm glad that Aethas is not in charge of this (sides, he still has to be too emotionally shaken to lead anyone) if Rommath had been the one in Dalaran, things would have gone completely different. As it is, I'm happy that is Theron the one leading; with Halduron and Romath maybe joining hin in the Onslaught, maybe he could leave Liadrin in charge of Silvermoon.

I think if Rommath was in charge of Sunreavers in Dalaran, I'm pretty sure they'd be out of Dalaran even faster; he's not exactly fond of Kirin Tor, let alone Alliance.

Regardless, it was Aethas' fault for Sunrevers being where they are now.. and as well as Garrosh's.

Having just played the horde side, Jaina doesn't kill and teleports to the violet hold, and the Silver covenant doesn't use lethal force unless there's resistance, neither they kill the VIP's in the Sunreaver sanctuary.

If you play alliance, you can kill the sunreavers who are cowering on the streets; killing their dragonhawks to prevent them from escaping Dalaran, leaving them with either the choice of jail or death; not to mention that Venessa says that she was always looking for excuse to kick the sunreavers out of Dalaran, because Rhonin refused to.

[Nekosom]

I think if Rommath was in charge of Sunreavers in Dalaran, I'm pretty sure they'd be out of Dalaran even faster; he's not exactly fond of Kirin Tor, let alone Alliance.



If you play alliance, you can kill the sunreavers who are cowering on the streets; killing their dragonhawks to prevent them from escaping Dalaran, leaving them with either the choice of jail or death; not to mention that Venessa says that she was always looking for excuse to kick the sunreavers out of Dalaran, because Rhonin refused to.

Just because the player has the choice to kill cowering civilians means very little. It's about what the NPCs do and what the quest objectives are, and your job is to kill belligerents. Can you blame them for trying to stop the Sunreavers from escaping? The mages who escaped are now hostile forces on this hub.

People are acting like Jaina was planning to exterminate the lot of them, when the simple fact of the matter is that imprisoning them was the only way they couldn't be used against her people any longer. Separating friend from foe had become utterly impossible (Aethas was apparently unable or unwilling to do so), and kicking them out only added to the Horde's forces. She may have made a rash decision, but it was hardly an unjustified one.

[TheDangerZone]

I think if Rommath was in charge of Sunreavers in Dalaran, I'm pretty sure they'd be out of Dalaran even faster; he's not exactly fond of Kirin Tor, let alone Alliance.

Regardless, it was Aethas' fault for Sunrevers being where they are now.. and as well as Garrosh's.

Well, yeah XD. What I mean, if Rommath had, somehow gotten past Garithos actions and himself be the leader of the Blood elves on Dalaranm he would have been much more assertive in his actions, either if helping Garrosh or following Jainas orders, he would have seen it through competently. He's a pretty decisive guy.

If you play alliance, you can kill the sunreavers who are cowering on the streets; killing their dragonhawks to prevent them from escaping Dalaran, leaving them with either the choice of jail or death; not to mention that Venessa says that she was always looking for excuse to kick the sunreavers out of Dalaran, because Rhonin refused to.

Seeing the video, you can decide either attacking sunreavers or not when they aren't your objectives, and Vereesa gives you to choice of killing or just incapacitating the Dragonhawks (but seriously, her "I don't care" is way creepy) What I mean is that lethality from Jaina and the silver covenant is the last resort.

[Dairios]

Rexxar will be Warchief, the story is there. you just gotta look with open eyes & see the timbits.

Holy crap, I need to go out and get a box of Timbits.

On topic: People need to stop fighting like one side is good and one side is evil and come to realize that... Blizzard just wrote a beautifully set piece of political/factional intrigue with great moral dilemma for all involved and shaded it in gray very well. It's definitely not Black and White and that's a good thing. Remember this, guys!

[TheDangerZone]

Holy crap, I need to go out and get a box of Timbits.

On topic: People need to stop fighting like one side is good and one side is evil and come to realize that... Blizzard just wrote a beautifully set piece of political/factional intrigue with great moral dilemma for all involved and shaded it in gray very well. It's definitely not Black and White and that's a good thing. Remember this, guys!

This. Seriously, this. No side is completely on the wrong, and neither side are monsters or victims. Don't let the faction bias get to you people!

[Zaelsino]

I'm thinking Blizzard should of named the new Horde faction the "Silvermoon Onslaught" or "Sin'dori Onslaught" rather then the "Sunreaver Onslaught", and then simply used Aethas and any other VIP Sunrevers as secondary characters. I think the fact Lor'themar is leading the offensive has less to do with Aethas being incompetent and more to do with Lor'themar needing some more time in the spotlight. For example he has yet to pledge himself to the rebellion, which I would be very surprised if it didn't happen in 5.2.

Completely agree. They're putting perhaps a little too much emphasis on the Sunreavers, when the entire point of them getting the boot (from the Horde-side perspective, at least) was to have Silvermoon's own factions step in on their behalf. Since, well... the Sunreavers simply aren't in a great spot. Most of them are still imprisoned.

Leading with their namesake seems sketchy to me, even if it is Theron doing the leading.

[Verdugo]

This. Seriously, this. No side is completely on the wrong, and neither side are monsters or victims. Don't let the faction bias get to you people!

Both sides are monsters, as long as they both exist there can be no peace. Exterminate them both.

[TheWindWalker]

By this logic, the Jews should have just let themselves be arrested, and they should have been killed for not wanting to be arrested for not committing any crimes.

Really loving some Godwin's, huh? If "the Jews" had been found responsible for giving the French an atomic bomb that was used on Vienna then stole a fuel-air bomb from Hamburg, and then the leader of Belgium started arresting them (sending them to a prison and not concentration camps) and killing those who fought back, then maybe you'd have a point.

But you don't.

[Deleted]

I'm thinking Blizzard should of named the new Horde faction the "Silvermoon Onslaught" or "Sin'dori Onslaught" rather then the "Sunreaver Onslaught", and then simply used Aethas and any other VIP Sunrevers as secondary characters. I think the fact Lor'themar is leading the offensive has less to do with Aethas being incompetent and more to do with Lor'themar needing some more time in the spotlight. For example he has yet to pledge himself to the rebellion, which I would be very surprised if it didn't happen in 5.2.

I agree. It's a bit too confusing. More, the "Onslaught" was also used before by the Scarlet, adding more unneeded baggage.

[TheDangerZone]

Both sides are monsters, as long as they both exist there can be no peace. Exterminate them both.

Blergh, misanthropy.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Blergh, misanthropy.

What do you expect from him?

[TheDangerZone]

What do you expect from him?

*looks over* actually, the name didn't ring any bells. I get that it might have been a good thing!

[Aeluron Lightsong]

*looks over* actually, the name didn't ring any bells. I get that it might have been a good thing!

Nah both sides are fine but I just think he hates Warcraft and wants it to die but I digress. Aethas should be involved...it's his name sake after all. Innocent or not he has to be involved. Maybe we can figure out if he was innocent and if all of the Sunreavers are guilty or not. I want to solve that mystery.

[TheDangerZone]

Nah both sides are fine but I just think he hates Warcraft and wants it to die but I digress. Aethas should be involved...it's his name sake after all. Innocent or not he has to be involved. Maybe we can figure out if he was innocent and if all of the Sunreavers are guilty or not. I want to solve that mystery.

This, I want to know how much Aethas knew, how much the duplicitous Sunreavers went behind his back, or if he chose to "look the other way" as Jaina put it.

I really don't know if Aethas will be really involved in this expedition, my guess is that he will have mirror role to Vereesa (As Theron's will be Jaina's) being a quest giver or something. I do think, though, that the naming is more of a pride matter instead of whom is going to lead, "Sunreaver Onslaught" Being more of a take that to Proudmore and the alliance, like "we still standing, we still strong!"

After all the Dalaran Purge bussiness, I do think that Aethas is either incompetent, too trusting or duplicitous himself. Either way, I do not see him as fit to lead anything.

[Qly]

I don't like Aethas, he was too cocky and full of himself. Sure he's a broken man, everything he ever stood for was shattered, blah blah blah, /violin... Had he stood with silvermoon like he was always told, instead of being a lapdog to the kirin tor none of this would've happenned

However, i do feel like there's some redemption down the road, and i also feel like rommath's story is about done... Do i smell some sacrifice on rommath's part?
I love lor'themar leading the assault, he's a great man, and conscious, like a leader should be.

One last thing: During the siege of orgrimmar, wouldn't it be awesome if we had a boss fight who was different for the horde or the alliance (think lootship). Where the other side tells you: "This is OUR SIDE's fight we will not let you interfere, stand back!" I could see both Jaina and Aethas as boss fights, both using basically the same talents only ice and fire based