[Megathread] Everquest Next

[Edge-]

Don't get me wrong, I want some addons especially for the UI, but there is a slippery slope especially with content difficulty once people become so addon dependant (DBM for instance). I'd just rather the addons be approved by the EQN team.

They can limit what addons have access to similar to what Rift or EQ2 does (IIRC). Allowing access to UI elements is far different than allowing for a DBM-esque addon from what I understand.

[RoninaThorstone]

Yeah. DBM has to do with datamined fight scripts used to estimate when an attack is going to happen, right? Like, knowing the cooldown on defile to predict when they will occur.

[Remilia]

I think that's about it, though I don't bother with addons much. Whatever happened to paying attention =\

[Ponzoo]

WoW happened to paying attention. I agree, and half the time hate loading up with addons for WoW, unfortunately guilds want performance over skill and a lot require the use of DBM. I use a base of addons: Titan Panel for general info, Bagnon cause WoW's bags were terrible, Recount to show me big numbers, and DBM because my guild requires me to have it.. it can be nice for the upcoming timers, but for the most part I don't stand in stuff. A few weeks back my guild came across the Malkorok addon, basically allows people to click off the sections of the platform that were dangerous for the slam, I refused to get it.

I played in Vanilla when addons were barely used.. I certainly didn't use any!

[Kelimbror]

I think that's about it, though I don't bother with addons much. Whatever happened to paying attention =\

Addons free the content designers to develop more complicated mechanics and layered events than simply relying on your eyes to see things. DBM can't play the game for you. Most people like clear communication and efficiently executing. That's proven to be a more successful raid design than to have a handful of unclear and very boring mechanics to deal with. A good example would be the difficulty level between SWTOR raids and WoW raids where one has no DBM and the other does. Difficulty isn't even comparable. (I've done them both at high levels)

[Fencers]

Addons free the content designers to develop more complicated mechanics and layered events than simply relying on your eyes to see things. DBM can't play the game for you. Most people like clear communication and efficiently executing. That's proven to be a more successful raid design than to have a handful of unclear and very boring mechanics to deal with. A good example would be the difficulty level between SWTOR raids and WoW raids where one has no DBM and the other does. Difficulty isn't even comparable. (I've done them both at high levels)

Nah, this is statement is pretty subjective and not quantifiable.

[Kelimbror]

Nah, this is statement is pretty subjective and not quantifiable.

Nah, it is quantifiable by looking at the content...which you admittedly don't have much experience in. So I'm not sure you're fit to make such an assessment. Games without addons have much simpler mechanics. Mechanics are entirely quantifiable in how many actions are required to deal with them, how much cooperation is needed, etc. All of this could be broken down into data. Surely you already knew this, however.

[Fencers]

Nah, it is quantifiable by looking at the content...which you admittedly don't have much experience in. So I'm not sure you're fit to make such an assessment.

Not sure what you are talking about., I have played World of Warcraft and SWTOR in very progression focused guilds. I am familiar with both games, there was little to no appreciable difference in difficulty between the two as I have experienced.

Subjectively speaking, both are MMOs among the most simplistic I have played aside from those made for actual children; Wizard 101, Disney' Toon Town, Super Hero squad, etc.

Misinterpreting, "I no longer play SWTOR and WOW" as having no experience of the games is a false assumption.

Games without addons have much simpler mechanics.

This is flatly false from design POV and wholly subjective to your own experiences. This is further complicated by your word choice of "boring". Which is a qualitative measure of your own device.

Mechanics are entirely quantifiable in how many actions are required to deal with them, how much cooperation is needed, etc. All of this could be broken down into data. Surely you already knew this, however.

Naturally, I understand quantifiable & qualitative data analysis. However, difficulty can not be quantified. It's a subjective concept. Complexity is the measure you are actually describing which is all together a different subject.

Such that a complex action can be subjectively "easy", likewise a simple action can be subjectively "difficult". Both of which can be proven in theoretical and practical example in various fields including video game design, gameplay and execution of design as expressed in gameplay.

[Kelimbror]

Not sure what you are talking about., I have played World of Warcraft and SWTOR in very progression focused guilds. I am familiar with both games, there was little to no appreciable difference in difficulty between the two as I have experienced.

Everything I've ever read implies you have no relevant/current experience with World of Warcraft. In regards to your semantic argument that fills up the rest of your post, and the implication that a statement is false, you are simply incorrect. Easy is subjective, but number of quantifiable things that correlate an intricacy are not. That is data. To think that the games are remotely comparable, or that any game with raiding can come close to the raw, numerical steps involved in any given encounter in WoW is fallacy at its finest.

While there's no definitive proof that there is causality between the evolution of raid design in tandem with robust addons like DBM, unless we are arguing like robots who don't factor common sense into an equation it's a pretty notable difference. Furthermore, if you see no difference in complexity or challenge of raiding in SWTOR and WoW, then you are 100% not qualified to have this discussion.

Edit: It would be like not knowing the difference between a mild drizzle and a blizzard and then commenting as an expert meteorologist.

[iggie]

Will players be able to PK (or WPVP) more than what WoW currently allows us to do?

With more PK I mean:
- less safe zones
- less instances
- less overpowered NPC guards
- less restrictions overall (why can't I attack my own faction?)
- less "artificial" rules that break immersion

Hopefully there isn't a lot of PKing. Maybe a few FFA zones at most, but people like you aren't wanted in the game. See the panel videos where they cover the question, or this direct quote

"This is not going to be Grieferquest, and every system will be designed around not allowing that. It's one of those things where you have to make it so that griefers can't ruin the experience for everyone else."

- - - Updated - - -

For what it's worth, Blizzard has said in the past that they've felt free/forced (depending on your perspective) to create more complex and challenging boss mechanics because of how DBM removes a lot of the UI issues that would make such mechanics otherwise very frustrating.

On the other hand, I did feel like SWTOR had some bosses that were ok on mechanics, but their tuning was weak, weak, weak. So very weak.

DBM, then KLM threat meter, then decursive, etc etc. Hell, I use an enhancement mod in WoW that tells me what to press when, and it gets me top 20 parses on heroic bosses. I don't even have that good of gear. Mods can easily get out of control.

[Fencers]

Everything I've ever read implies you have no relevant/current experience with World of Warcraft. In regards to your semantic argument that fills up the rest of your post, and the implication that a statement is false, you are simply incorrect. Easy is subjective, but number of quantifiable things that correlate an intricacy are not. That is data. To think that the games are remotely comparable, or that any game with raiding can come close to the raw, numerical steps involved in any given encounter in WoW is fallacy at its finest.

While there's no definitive proof that there is causality between the evolution of raid design in tandem with robust addons like DBM, unless we are arguing like robots who don't factor common sense into an equation it's a pretty notable difference. Furthermore, if you see no difference in complexity or challenge of raiding in SWTOR and WoW, then you are 100% not qualified to have this discussion.

Edit: It would be like not knowing the difference between a mild drizzle and a blizzard and then commenting as an expert meteorologist.

I must repeat again that you are confusing difficulty with complexity. The two are different concepts. The former is a subjective qualifier: "easy", "boring", etc.

Also you are making flat out false declarative statements like; "Games without addons have much simpler mechanics."

The inverse is not true across any consistent standard divorced of your own subjective view. That you may think SWTOR is simpler than World of Warcraft is your own personal measure. One which you have not even revealed, you are just saying it is so.

Which is fair. You are entitled to believe it is true. Just as I, and I purposefully made note to express this above, found WoW to be no more difficult than SWTOR from my subjective POV.

A simple action such as threading a needle can be subjectively difficult. Whereas a complex action such as typing on the internet can be subjectively easy.

There is no objective measure of what one may find to a degree harder or easier within video games. There is no consistent evidence otherwise that as a rule or principle of game design the lack or or inclusion of addons make any game easier or harder [subjective] &/or allow for lesser or greater complex interactions of play systems.

[Loaf Lord]

New dev diary vid.

[Dilbon]

Meh, I don't like tiered crafting that much. Yeah it works, but it's a bit silly and unrealistic, if one can use that word in a fantasy game.

[Remilia]

Minecraft MMO! Kind of exactly what I was kind of expecting and hoping, >.>

[Loaf Lord]

Yeah me too. There's so much potential in it.

[zito]

No real gardening/farming to grow your own resources?

BLASPHEMY

:l

[Ponzoo]

Going in the right direction for me! Excited about what I can gather for my crafting bitches!

[Loaf Lord]

No real gardening/farming to grow your own resources?

BLASPHEMY

:l

They might not be ready to share that stuff yet. I think it would be silly to exclude those things from a big sandbox MMO.

[RoninaThorstone]

Well, it seemed that there were plants growing in the cellar of his castle. Maybe he planted them there?

Or, you might be able to CREATE the conditions for certain things to grow. Like, collect Ashen Soil and place in high sunlight and get Cinderbloom or low sunlight and get flameshrooms.

[Loaf Lord]

If they let me grow mushroom chairs I'll be so happy. I need mushroom furniture. Need.