Sylvanas Windrunner

[Deleted]

"Oh my god Thrall, you had to fight in the arena after being raised with a human girl that loved and treated you as her own brother, and then had to see her death? That's pretty bad man.

Me I was just tending the fields until these forsaken guys came rolling up and blighted the hell out of the region liquifying my family and friends in the most horribly painful fashion on Azeroth and was then forced into slave labor and ultimately buried up to my neck waiting for a wandering ghoul to get hungry and eat my face off(literally). But you, what you went through was tough man."



They are intelligent dude. All dragons originated from proto drakes. Just because they don't think on the same level doesn't mean they don't think.

The magnataur? They have had to live in Northrend, one of the most hostile environments on the planet, for their entire existences. Just because they're hostile to us outsiders that came into their homes at about the same time as the cult of the damned started screwing with them doesn't mean we should kidnap their children and hold them hostage and force them to fight for us.

dude u completely missed the point i wasnt comparing these 2 things i was commenting on his claim that "the humans treated the orcs better and only put them in camps" yeh right they threw them to the lions for entertainment

[TheDangerZone]

I don't think Sylvanas likes the forsaken, but he deeply cares for them, at least now.

Before the events in Icecrown, she was all like burning the house down. Squandering no resources to fight Arthas, her sole goal was to obliterate him (as well it was most forsaken). Now, she cares for their survival, even if it just because she doesn't wants to die. She will protect them and not let anyone use them as fodder. Because hse doesn't want to die. She's as bound to them as she is to the Valkyr, and she will take care of them, even if her motives are "selfish".

What more can you expect from an undead psychopath? as far as they go, Lady S. is a doll.

A side point; there's a lot of people that seem to believe that the forsaken are being "duped". Personally I believe it's just devotion. They owe her their existence; they worship her almost as a god and are willing to die for her, even if she doesn't care. I'd call them fanatic, Sylvanas is their dark savior and they will do anything for her.

With all of these, Sylvanas and the forsaken are one of the most interesting aspects of WoW to me. Sylvanas story is one of the most complex and provocatives as she dances on the line of pure evil. She most likely will end up dead, but it has been a hell of a ride.

[Dybia]

dude u completely missed the point i wasnt comparing these 2 things i was commenting on his claim that "the humans treated the orcs better and only put them in camps" yeh right they threw them to the lions for entertainment

The forsaken put the humans in camps too is my point. So tell me, which POW camp experience sounds worse. Fighting as a gladiator raised away from others of your kind, or the horrible torture of the forsaken killing everyone/everything you know and burying you alive to wait for you to be eaten alive or slipping you plagued food to turn you into a ghoul or simply turning you into a semi sentient blob of green goo with no hands legs eyes or mouth using the blight?

[Deleted]

The forsaken put the humans in camps too is my point. So tell me, which POW camp experience sounds worse. Fighting as a gladiator raised away from others of your kind, or the horrible torture of the forsaken killing everyone/everything you know and burying you alive to wait for you to be eaten alive or slipping you plagued food to turn you into a ghoul or simply turning you into a semi sentient blob of green goo with no hands legs eyes or mouth using the blight?

i can see ur point :P. how ever its still extremely unaccurate to make claims that the humans only had orcs in camps sitting in a ring by the fire singing dudaa when they actually were using them in a "kill or be killed" battles for humans entertainment

[Jawless Jones]

and the thread devolves into mindless faction wank and sylvanas/forsaken hate with both sides trying to justify what they're saying while ignoring evidence presented by both sides of the arguement...

at least it hasnt turned into a lordaeron thread yet

[Deleted]

and the thread devolves into mindless faction wank and sylvanas/forsaken hate with both sides trying to justify what they're saying while ignoring evidence presented by both sides of the arguement...

at least it hasnt turned into a lordaeron thread yet

well i allways say give the ppl what they want... Lordaeron belongs to the forsaken, in life and death!!!!!

[Jawless Jones]

The forsaken put the humans in camps too is my point. So tell me, which POW camp experience sounds worse. Fighting as a gladiator raised away from others of your kind, or the horrible torture of the forsaken killing everyone/everything you know and burying you alive to wait for you to be eaten alive or slipping you plagued food to turn you into a ghoul or simply turning you into a semi sentient blob of green goo with no hands legs eyes or mouth using the blight?

actually if warden stillwater wasnt in charge, the sludge fields would have been a mushroom farm, so instead of "rarrgh concentration camps" it would have been "rarrgh slave labour"

it'd be like comparing WW2 concentration camps (altho nothing in wow has ever been close to THAT) to african-americans working the fields in ye olde tymes

the whole 'thrall was a gladiator' thing is over the top (like alot of what is said in these types of threads), he was treated alot better than the other orcs and he was free to think for himself and wasnt afflicted with the withdrawal like of the rest of the orcs trapped in the 'concentration camps'

[Macks]

Thrall was a gladiator lol...nuff said.

[Duncanîdaho]

I've always loved Sylvanas' character. I find the MoP mantid story and the mantid queen very much similar to Slyvanas' story and I don't think many people caught that. A race of people suddenly cut off from their "god" left to make themselves a place in Azeroth on their own. Both worship there race leader with a fanatical like devotion that makes them a very formidable enemy. Both view 'living' very differently then the other races on Azeroth and due to that fact are looked down upon. There is a lack of understanding between the other races. The mantid are simply driven by love of their god, rather than hatred like the Forsaken feel towards the Lich King.

The major difference is that the Mantid have a system in place to prevent their queen from running their race into the ground. The Forsaken are new, and have not had to deal with this yet. But much like the Mantid queen we just slew for the Klaxxi, Slyvanas is starting to go down the path of her fear consuming her. Her actions are now at least now partly dictated by her fear of the void and what lays beyond. Unlike the mantid queen who had no hope once the sha of fear lodged onto her, Slyvanas can still save herself. Or she can continue to go down the path of alienating her fellow Forsaken(some already see what shes becoming), which will eventually lead to rebellion or another assassination. Only time will tell what Blizzard decides to do with her. I very much look forward to finding out.

[Jawless Jones]

Thrall was a gladiator lol...nuff said.

i know he was a gladiator =P

what i was trying to say was that, while he was a gladiator (risking his life for little or no reward etc etc) he was still faaaaaar better off the rest of his race

[Dybia]

i can see ur point :P. how ever its still extremely unaccurate to make claims that the humans only had orcs in camps sitting in a ring by the fire singing dudaa when they actually were using them in a "kill or be killed" battles for humans entertainment

Yeah humans aren't the angels of Azeroth by any means, but the worst human Blackmoore who was the one that put the whole arena thing in motion because of his plan to raise an orc army that served him with the help of some of the others that ran camps too, none of the crap he did really measured up to the clearly generic evil of the forsaken and Sylvanas in this war. There isn't an ounce of altruism in that woman anymore if there ever was. I can't think of a faction the forsaken have come in to 'save the day' for that they haven't then immediately demanded obedience from. They helped the blood elves then threatened to throw them to the undead wolves and abandon Quel'Thalas when Lorthremar told her he still needed time to recover before sending all his forces back out to Northrend to fight the Scourge. As a people they're only out for themselves, and that's fine with Sylvanas because they worship the ground she stands on. My favorite thing from Tides of War was Lorthremar wordlessly saying "Fuck you!" to her now that the blood elves can hold their own borders, by abandoning her while she tried to argue with Garrosh. I hope her worst fears come true in an expansion or two and Varian leads the alliance to take back Lordaeron in full force(Sorry JJ, had to bring it up). As a topping I hope the forces storming in on her are led by Vareesa AND Alleria.

[Deleted]

Yeah humans aren't the angels of Azeroth by any means, but the worst human Blackmoore who was the one that put the whole arena thing in motion because of his plan to raise an orc army that served him with the help of some of the others that ran camps too, none of the crap he did really measured up to the clearly generic evil of the forsaken and Sylvanas in this war. There isn't an ounce of altruism in that woman anymore if there ever was. I can't think of a faction the forsaken have come in to 'save the day' for that they haven't then immediately demanded obedience from. They helped the blood elves then threatened to throw them to the undead wolves and abandon Quel'Thalas when Lorthremar told her he still needed time to recover before sending all his forces back out to Northrend to fight the Scourge. As a people they're only out for themselves, and that's fine with Sylvanas because they worship the ground she stands on. My favorite thing from Tides of War was Lorthremar wordlessly saying "Fuck you!" to her now that the blood elves can hold their own borders, by abandoning her while she tried to argue with Garrosh. I hope her worst fears come true in an expansion or two and Varian leads the alliance to take back Lordaeron in full force(Sorry JJ, had to bring it up). As a topping I hope the forces storming in on her are led by Vareesa AND Alleria.

honestly i think the war to take back lordaeron wouldnt fit very well in game as it would be pretty much old scenery and what? world pvp?i mean i just dont see a full expancion there or even a patch for that matter. could be an awesome book tho.

[Haven]

They are intelligent dude. All dragons originated from proto drakes. Just because they don't think on the same level doesn't mean they don't think.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Proto-drake

They're bestial. They don't communicate. If you use this kind of argument, how can you kill or enslave monkey, wolf and bear mobs? Just because they don't think on the same level as humans, pandaren, and worgen doesn't mean they don't think, man! (yeah yeah I know humans descended from Vrykul)

The magnataur? They have had to live in Northrend, one of the most hostile environments on the planet, for their entire existences. Just because they're hostile to us outsiders that came into their homes at about the same time as the cult of the damned started screwing with them doesn't mean we should kidnap their children and hold them hostage and force them to fight for us.

I don't give a damn, the kalu'ak, wolvar and oracles, and even a living nerubian accepted and cooperated with Horde and Alliance. Those fat mammoth fuckers sealed their fate themselves. Horde and Forsaken aren't your pussy greenpeace to take into consideration the intricate soul organisation and inner emotional turmoils of dumb aggressive beasts.

[Silentrogue]

The necklace quest is so awesome. I love her as a character. I'm also slightly biased because I think (know) that the Undead are the master WoW race.

I like this guy.

Lady S will never abuse the Forsaken, maybe it was in the past she did yeah but now they have this special connection and she is bound to them. Lady S will once again rise up and will take her Forsaken to the climax above any other race in WOW. Lady S has the best interesting story in wow.

/6 Forsaken chars

[GennGreymane]

dude u completely missed the point i wasnt comparing these 2 things i was commenting on his claim that "the humans treated the orcs better and only put them in camps" yeh right they threw them to the lions for entertainment

those dicks destroyed a bastion of humanity, and tried to destroy the rest of it in a blind rage they chose themselves

[PetersenIII]

she presents a real challenge in determining how to judge her.

Not at all, it's simple. She's a cold-hearted revenge-driven bitch who wants to kill all life on the planet uniting it in common undeath (or real death, small potatos) to worship her forever (or at least until the Old Gods reclaim Azeroth). She should be put down like the rabid dog she's become. You mention about her worthy deeds in life? Guess what: doesn't fucking matter. She didn't hold to her principles in death, so she never actually owned them in life.

You could cure cancer, fund schools and libraries accross the nation, give the lion's share of your money to charity, but if you kill one person you're a fucking murderer and they put you in fucking jail.

[Scummer]

I read it and you must remember as well that it wasn't only the fear of the eternal darkness that make she accept tha pact with the Valkyr, it was showed to her what would happen to the Forsaken if she dies, I'm not saying they ARE the reason but they are part of it, for sure, I believe Sylvanas discovered that she cares about them, in her own way of course, she realized that they aren't JUST a tool anymore but because of her personality she never gonna say it...Sylvanas want to live, she want to take care of the Forsaken, the people that she saw raise from the ashes, literally, the "bulwark against the infinite" is just a goal, or a excuse, if you will.

Then you're interpretation directly conflicts with what she says.

"They had been honed into the perfect weapon. Her weapon. And they had struck the killing blow for which she had built them. She cared nothing for their fate.
"Let them perish!" Sylvanas cried. "I am finished with them!""

She only wishes to come back after she slips into this void after admitting she doesn't care for the Forsaken as a people. So no, the idea that she came back to save her people is wrong.

To her they're just a resource. Nothing more, nothing less.

You see I can appreciate it if somebody likes evil (immoral, bad call it what you will) characters, the problem occurs when people try to constantly argue that they are not even though every action they have committed coupled with their quotes and personality conflict with this.
Now she was a likeable character but that time has gone.

and the thread devolves into mindless faction wank and sylvanas/forsaken hate with both sides trying to justify what they're saying while ignoring evidence presented by both sides of the arguement...

Like I said at the start she's a controversial character .

[Maximus Testiculos]

Sylvanas mass-raises innocent people into undead against their will. The thing that she hated Lich King for.

That should make all the world try to chase her. But it gets ignored for some reason.

[TheDangerZone]

Then you're interpretation directly conflicts with what she says.

"They had been honed into the perfect weapon. Her weapon. And they had struck the killing blow for which she had built them. She cared nothing for their fate.
"Let them perish!" Sylvanas cried. "I am finished with them!""

She only wishes to come back after she slips into this void after admitting she doesn't care for the Forsaken as a people. So no, the idea that she came back to save her people is wrong.

To her they're just a resource. Nothing more, nothing less.

You see I can appreciate it if somebody likes evil (immoral, bad call it what you will) characters, the problem occurs when people try to constantly argue that they are not even though every action they have committed coupled with their quotes and personality conflict with this.
Now she was a likeable character but that time has gone.

If I'm to be honest, I'm not sure how much we should rely on Sylvanas words, she was suicidal and in complete emotional breakdown. I'm not saying she liked them at all, just that her words seemed more spite than true honesty.

[Deleted]

Sylvanas mass-raises innocent people into undead against their will. The thing that she hated Lich King for.

That should make all the world try to chase her. But it gets ignored for some reason.

For now the reason is dead*boobies*.

But i am sure this silvanaz will soon die once for all ( prolly the only char to have died so much in a story .. my god what a loser ) by the hand of some horde fed up with it's behavior or by the High King of the Alliance : Varian Wrynn , strongest war alive.