MM may be coming back in 5.2

[Deleted]

Biggest buff for MM would be RF and Readiness on same 3 min CD + of course some simple dmg buff for.. well all abilities.

[Deleted]

It's weird, using the "PTR changes" on femaledwarf actually gives me 3k less dps as MM now...

[Beebeey]

i dont mean it but i am afraid that GC gonna read those posts and say hell yeah what idea
removing readiness i dont understand them
its make sense when other classes say that i wont care about
but hunters make QQ job
we were crying at cata to get readiness for all spec now its bad ?
so finally we got some cool stuff and we want more from blizzard while keeping what we earned
and sorry for all its was angry concerning moment

You're fine.

I doubt that Blizzard pays much attention to hunter requests, given the fact that for the most part have completely ignored MM in the first place.
I didn't play during Cataclysm. I was however a MS MM hunter during WoTLK.

From what I can see there were a lot of great changes to the class as well:
-- Primarily removing mana regeneration and having to switch between Hawk/Viper: It simply made no sense considering our role in-game to have to regen 'mana'.

Now, I was never around during Cata, but it looks like Blizz just completely dissected part of the factors that made MM unique and made them baseline, without taking into consideration that another form of dmg increase might be needed: Double so when they just completely removed ArP from the game and class itself.

Readiness and trueshot aura were very good during WoTLK, so I have to agree with the statement that it was fine during said expansion because I still remember the game this way.

Now, I can't speak for all of the changes during Cataclysm, but it looks like there are definitely a few tweaks or increases to things that could put the class on the map again. A lower cast time for AS is definitely one of those key factors, but as someone else pointed out -- only if you can get AS to hit with a certain time frame (which further helps to make all other shots lock right into place).

I do agree with the poster that just changing trueshot aura to give a higher raid buff would probably not be ideal for class balance when I think about it. CS or PS could use a bit of a work around however, and that's not too far off here. I highly doubt they would do anything to ss in the first place.

I don't think the idea is so far out of league - we're talking about a hard talent reset with a 5 minute cd here. That's not to say that we necessarily need it with BM's current state.

---------- Post added 2013-01-16 at 03:52 PM ----------

i ve played wow since 2007,always and only hunter's class,and cannot remember ANY post about "Buff BM pls",now that mm is bottom spec,there's a lot of discussion about it.
However,y this buff will not be enough,they need to boost chimera/steady shot damage,cause sts's damage is ridicolus low,but ptr is still long,we will see^^

I actually recall a lot of people talking about how it would be neat to play BM as anything but a leveling/PVP spec in-game.

[Daos]

hey paladin :P
pls stop QQing about readiness

Hey guess what? I don't play paladin anymore. Also, due to alts, it isn't really a good argument to dismiss someone's opinion completely because they may not main the class being discussed. SCRUTINIZE their opinion, sure, but dismissing it outright is bad form.

Now, on topic, I feel like you think I'm arguing for Readiness to go away. I'm reasonably confident I specifically said that's not what I wanted, but rather for Readiness to only affect defensive abilities. I've yet to hear a good argument for why it should affect offensive abilities in Mists. We're no longer in Wrath / Cata, so the argument that it was fine for Marks at that time is no longer applicable. Most hunters got an additional 3 abilities forced into their rotations, all of which are reset by Readiness, so all having it reset offensive abilities does is add unnecessary bloat to a class that already has more abilities in their toolbox (and thus more hotkeys needed) than just about any other class.

Additionally, what I'm also not arguing for is for Readiness to not affect offensive abilities and for those abilities to not get adjusted with that in mind. I'm not even sure how anyone would think that's on the table, since a couple seconds of analysis would dictate that's a terrible idea.

Edit: clarification

[Steliios]

You're fine.

I doubt that Blizzard pays much attention to hunter requests, given the fact that for the most part have completely ignored MM in the first place.
I didn't play during Cataclysm. I was however a MS MM hunter during WoTLK.

From what I can see there were a lot of great changes to the class as well:
-- Primarily removing mana regeneration and having to switch between Hawk/Viper: It simply made no sense considering our role in-game to have to regen 'mana'.

Now, I was never around during Cata, but it looks like Blizz just completely dissected part of the factors that made MM unique and made them baseline, without taking into consideration that another form of dmg increase might be needed: Double so when they just completely removed ArP from the game and class itself.

Readiness and trueshot aura were very good during WoTLK, so I have to agree with the statement that it was fine during said expansion because I still remember the game this way.

Now, I can't speak for all of the changes during Cataclysm, but it looks like there are definitely a few tweaks or increases to things that could put the class on the map again. A lower cast time for AS is definitely one of those key factors, but as someone else pointed out -- only if you can get AS to hit with a certain time frame (which further helps to make all other shots lock right into place).

I do agree with the poster that just changing trueshot aura to give a higher raid buff would probably not be ideal for class balance when I think about it. CS or PS could use a bit of a work around however, and that's not too far off here. I highly doubt they would do anything to ss in the first place.

I don't think the idea is so far out of league - we're talking about a hard talent reset with a 5 minute cd here. That's not to say that we necessarily need it with BM's current state.

---------- Post added 2013-01-16 at 03:52 PM ----------



I actually recall a lot of people talking about how it would be neat to play BM as anything but a leveling/PVP spec in-game.

i am bm player from the begining
i don't know but i feel if reediness gone from base line or being specific for MM it gonna be huge nerf
i think the problem not in readiness the problem in what ability's we have
i need stamped is offensives ability with 5min i need the reset cd
i saw lots of hunter was complaining about blizzard making some ability's base line and they don't like that
now some ppl want to REMOVE HUGE ABILITY LIKE READINESS because 3 more ability i don't get it
i cant understand those ppl
they should talk about powershot bug 4-5 month from mop lunch and still bunged + glaive toss bug too
this insulting to us from blizzard i am so sad i cant afford anymore nerfs and bugs
i like how other classes they defend their classes mage locks warriors ........
sorry again for all ppl that i expressed my opinion wrong to them
and sorry about my poor english

[Dald]

Sticking with the Piercing Shots buff/change. Arcane Shot criticals applying Piercing Shots or non-critical Chimera, SS or AiS applying Piercing Shots.

[Nemesis003]

Sticking with the Piercing Shots buff/change. Arcane Shot criticals applying Piercing Shots or non-critical Chimera, SS or AiS applying Piercing Shots.

the Marks only shots should always apply "piercing shots" IMO that would up the DPS enough to put it right in line with the other hunter specs, no more changes needed.

[Penguintamer]

Looks like another PTR build without any true DPS buffs to Marksmanship, and no word at all on how Ghostcrawler is going to deliver after he agreed that our class has too many buttons to press.

It's really sad, how bad Marksmanship is now. And I'm not even talking about DPS. What do you even GET when you choose Marksmanship? You get...3 fucking abilities. Chimera Shot, Aimed Shot and Steady Shot. How is that even considered a fucking spec? No Readiness, no Silencing Shot, you literally get nothing for choosing Marksmanship. There's no flavor or utility. Chimera Shot isn't even interesting anymore, and never has since they removed all of it's extra utility when it interacted with stings. Now it's just a hard-hitting Arcane Shot. It's a very sad spec at the moment.

This spec needs a revamp. I don't understand why they're even bothering to lower the cast time of Aimed Shot. It's just taunting us by making our rotation more difficult to figure out. What do they want as our focus dump? The set bonuses interact with Arcane Shot so we're going to be forced to use that, but with Aimed Shot having a lower cast time, it might be a dps increase to get enough haste to use that as our focus dump instead. And even then the set bonuses will get in the way.

[Warrada]

Looks like another PTR build without any true DPS buffs to Marksmanship, and no word at all on how Ghostcrawler is going to deliver after he agreed that our class has too many buttons to press.

It's really sad, how bad Marksmanship is now. And I'm not even talking about DPS. What do you even GET when you choose Marksmanship? You get...3 fucking abilities. Chimera Shot, Aimed Shot and Steady Shot. How is that even considered a fucking spec? No Readiness, no Silencing Shot, you literally get nothing for choosing Marksmanship. There's no flavor or utility. Chimera Shot isn't even interesting anymore, and never has since they removed all of it's extra utility when it interacted with stings. Now it's just a hard-hitting Arcane Shot. It's a very sad spec at the moment.

This spec needs a revamp. I don't understand why they're even bothering to lower the cast time of Aimed Shot. It's just taunting us by making our rotation more difficult to figure out. What do they want as our focus dump? The set bonuses interact with Arcane Shot so we're going to be forced to use that, but with Aimed Shot having a lower cast time, it might be a dps increase to get enough haste to use that as our focus dump instead. And even then the set bonuses will get in the way.

Nice resume about MM spec and my (and many other Hunters) frustation with the spec and how Blizz neglect it...

I'll ctrl +c it to the thread where GC has been posting.. Hopefully he reads it and say something...

[Beebeey]

i am bm player from the begining
i don't know but i feel if reediness gone from base line or being specific for MM it gonna be huge nerf
i think the problem not in readiness the problem in what ability's we have
i need stamped is offensives ability with 5min i need the reset cd
i saw lots of hunter was complaining about blizzard making some ability's base line and they don't like that
now some ppl want to REMOVE HUGE ABILITY LIKE READINESS because 3 more ability i don't get it
i cant understand those ppl
they should talk about powershot bug 4-5 month from mop lunch and still bunged + glaive toss bug too
this insulting to us from blizzard i am so sad i cant afford anymore nerfs and bugs
i like how other classes they defend their classes mage locks warriors ........
sorry again for all ppl that i expressed my opinion wrong to them
and sorry about my poor english

He didn't technically say to remove it though, that's the thing.

[Madwolf]

BM is my favorite spec, and I like MM as a secondary when it's viable, but it still isn't, and I'm not sure how this is going to help matters much. I just wish I didn't have to go Survival to do quality AoE damage. Why can't they make pet cleave more effective or traps hit harder? I personally am no fan of Survival, I just don't like the way it plays, but I feel like MM doesn't really have a direction at the moment. I get what it's intent is, but it seems like they didn't want it to hit too hard and cause our pets not to matter so they tried hard not to make it overly powerful, and ended up not making it powerful enough. Then BM was number one when we all started, and now they're afraid to do anything to it at this point because as much as Hunter's love BM, there is a small but VOCAL community in WoW that HATES BM, and it seems they get their way expansion after expansion.

Honestly I think part of the problem is Readiness. I think it's hard to balance Hunter abilities when you can do two of everything back to back. That makes PvP and PvE even harder to balance for us because now you not only have to balance the PvE abilities so they're not OP on hitting readiness, but PvP abilities too. It would be nice if Hunter PvP and PvE abilities where largely the same, but they're not even close, so that just makes the process harder.

I think in the next expansion they're going to re-tool us all over again, and I'm not upset about that, but I hope when they do they give each class a defining mechanic and then gel the 3 so that we don't end up half-way into an expansion with Tier-Gear that only benefits 1 spec out of 3. I just don't see how it's that hard to do this. It seems like if you put in effort to eliminate this issue by designing the 3 specs right it'd make the rest of the expansion a breeze for them.

[Deleted]

Wow Madwolf you just completely written my thoughts out in a way I wouldn't even be able to write out. I gotta admit though, as much as I love Beast Mastery (and probably always will) I am getting a teeny tiny bit bored of it now. Honestly if Marksmanship is pulling the same or better single target DPS next tier I would have absolutely no problems with that.

Other than the whole Readiness fiasco I still think Kill Shot resetting it's cooldown is a clunky mechanic and the Careful Aim phase isn't something I enjoy that much. I would also like the level 60 tier to be turned into 3 different passives as Fervor and Dire Beast just aren't very interesting buttons to press.

Keeping my fingers crossed for some minor changes in 5.2. A somewhat redesigned or rescaled 4 piece T15 set bonus would be very welcome.

[Zeherah]

It's weird, using the "PTR changes" on femaledwarf actually gives me 3k less dps as MM now...

This is probably because you have MM configured for suboptimal use of aimed shot on my site so it's probably using aimed shot at times that actually cause a dps loss instead of just when it'll be a gain. The default settings are probably not ideal given the changes in mechanics MM has seen. Try adjusting the settings some and it should go up.

[Asrialol]

Hey guess what? I don't play paladin anymore. Also, due to alts, it isn't really a good argument to dismiss someone's opinion completely because they may not main the class being discussed. SCRUTINIZE their opinion, sure, but dismissing it outright is bad form.

Now, on topic, I feel like you think I'm arguing for Readiness to go away. I'm reasonably confident I specifically said that's not what I wanted, but rather for Readiness to only affect defensive abilities. I've yet to hear a good argument for why it should affect offensive abilities in Mists. We're no longer in Wrath / Cata, so the argument that it was fine for Marks at that time is no longer applicable. Most hunters got an additional 3 abilities forced into their rotations, all of which are reset by Readiness, so all having it reset offensive abilities does is add unnecessary bloat to a class that already has more abilities in their toolbox (and thus more hotkeys needed) than just about any other class.

Additionally, what I'm also not arguing for is for Readiness to not affect offensive abilities and for those abilities to not get adjusted with that in mind. I'm not even sure how anyone would think that's on the table, since a couple seconds of analysis would dictate that's a terrible idea.

Edit: clarification

How on earth is making Readiness not affect offensive abilities an solution to ability / rotation bloat? How does it free up keybinds or space on the bar? How does it bloat the rotation when it's basically just making CDs pop up faster, how is that bloating, really? Is pressing a few more buttons once extra each 5 min really that big of a deal?

[Steliios]

Nice resume about MM spec and my (and many other Hunters) frustation with the spec and how Blizz neglect it...

I'll ctrl +c it to the thread where GC has been posting.. Hopefully he reads it and say something...

he don't give &*#@ about hunters anyways good luck to find good response
go twitter https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler

---------- Post added 2013-01-17 at 01:21 AM ----------

How on earth is making Readiness not affect offensive abilities an solution to ability / rotation bloat? How does it free up keybinds or space on the bar? How does it bloat the rotation when it's basically just making CDs pop up faster, how is that bloating, really? Is pressing a few more buttons once extra each 5 min really that big of a deal?

that's what i am trying to say
/faceblame
its sound like nerf to me

[Hayro1]

more buffs for the marksmanship master race plz

It's way past your bedtime.

[erbs101]

Hello,
I feel the Aimed Shot buff would roughly be a 3-5% dps increase overall for mm. But i feel thats not the buff MM needs. Right now MM has the most weakest signature shot damage per focus cost among the 3 specs for hunters.

The buff i feel MM needs for it to be a viable spec for hunters are:

• Change Chimera Shot to something like this => An instant shot that causes 245% ranged weapon Nature damage plus 1450, refreshing the duration of your Serpent Sting and healing you for 3% of your total health.

• Change Careful Aim Mechanic to something like this => Increases the critical strike chance of your Aimed Shot by 100% on targets who are above 80% health.

• Lastly Multi-Shot Vision => trigggers when a hunter gets a critical damage while using multi-shot.

Mult-Shot Vision - grants the hunter increased critical damage by 200% for 10 secs when dealing multi-shot.

I think Rapid Fire or Readiness would not help MM overall yes it will provide dps increase but i feel its not what mm needs

[BukkaKid]

It's been mentioned time and again; why not just have Arcane Shot work in tandem with Piercing Shots? It's downright the simplest and easiest change to incorporate. It fits the build/spec and it works with a mechanic already cemented into the spec.

Curious, what would be the DPS increase if PS did take into account AS also? Would it be on par or slightly better DPS over BM and SV? I don't think the DPS increase would be anything gamebreaking...

[Beoren]

I've created a topic on EU forums, please comment\ participate we need to make some pressure if we want them to address hunter issues..

Link - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6298043534

[Tehstool]

It's been mentioned time and again; why not just have Arcane Shot work in tandem with Piercing Shots? It's downright the simplest and easiest change to incorporate. It fits the build/spec and it works with a mechanic already cemented into the spec.

Curious, what would be the DPS increase if PS did take into account AS also? Would it be on par or slightly better DPS over BM and SV? I don't think the DPS increase would be anything gamebreaking...

Adding piercing shots to arcane shot would probably make mm top dps.