At what Ilvl is it worth going back to fire?

[Deleted]

Hey there!

My question is simple. At what Ilvl is it worth going back to Fire? Is there even an ilvl reachable atm? That will do competitive dps, and even beat Arcane?
Or will Fire just be behind Arcane and also the top of the meters, until 5.2, and maybe further on?

Let me here your opinions and maybe some sims!

[mrgreenthump]

Atm there is no such point. But if Arcane gets a nerf in 5.2 as it prolly will, then fire will prolly be better for progression regardless of rng.

[Deleted]

Alright. That kind of sucks I guess. I´ve noticed some texts about it, in other threads. People said like "Fire might be good if you have enough gear for it". But we will just have to wait until 5.2 then I guess

[PPN]

The big fire nerf came when i had around ilvl 482. Now i have ilvl 492 and i have to say that i always did good compared to other dpsers in raids (Top 3). It always depends on the bossmechanic if the fire spec gets favourized or not.

In lfr i had mages with same ilvl in arc specs and sometimes they were better, sometimes even, sometimes worse. Duno maybe the rng of fire. Also in lfr you can never say how good the others are, as ilvl isnt everything

If you arent in a hardcore progress guild just play what you like. Ive tried arc too when the nerf hit CM for fire, but after 2 days i gave up cause i found it just disgusting. Id rather stop raid and only pvp as frost then to play pve arc nowadays.

[Deleted]

Since we are a pretty hardcore guild I can´t really go back to fire, unless it´s getting better than Arcane again!

[Deleted]

Why do people make comparisons to other players? equal skill will mean that arcane outperforms fire unless very special circumstances.. A statement like " yeah i played as fire and outperformed that arcane mage on that boss" means either a) you are better than that mage b) you have way better gear or c) specialsauce circumstance

[Deleted]

We can't say until 5.2 hit live, there will be many changes until it goes live so its impossible to know which spec will be the best.

I dont wanna change all my gear again, i've done so 3 times in a few weeks cause of nerfs/tests, thats enough.

[Deleted]

Atm there is no such point. But if Arcane gets a nerf in 5.2 as it prolly will, then fire will prolly be better for progression regardless of rng.

They need to leave their filthy fingers off the Arcane spec.

[checking facts]

first ask yourself the following question: "would you rather play as fire or arcane?"

• if the answer is "fire", than ilvl 0;
• if the answer is "arcane", than the ilvl is +∞;

[elpadrino293]

Atm there is no such point. But if Arcane gets a nerf in 5.2 as it prolly will, then fire will prolly be better for progression regardless of rng.

i honestly do not believe fire is in such a bad spot.
#39 Elpadlol Wind Lord Mel'jarak 25H 532625

[Deleted]

i honestly do not believe fire is in such a bad spot.
#39 Elpadlol Wind Lord Mel'jarak 25H 532625

Taking Mel'jarak as a reference for fire mages' damage it's totally senseless...
Fire needs an adjustment, but all we get is more nerfs because of arcane changes -.-

[mrgreenthump]

i honestly do not believe fire is in such a bad spot.
#39 Elpadlol Wind Lord Mel'jarak 25H 532625

He asked when it was going to pass arcane on overall/make it competitive against it, now sure on Windlord fire can do better dps, but its still miles behind on most fights..

[Deleted]

i honestly do not believe fire is in such a bad spot.
#39 Elpadlol Wind Lord Mel'jarak 25H 532625

Taking a clearly overgeared character on a mass aoe fight, yeah...

[elpadrino293]

Taking Mel'jarak as a reference for fire mages' damage it's totally senseless...
Fire needs an adjustment, but all we get is more nerfs because of arcane changes -.-

Taking a clearly overgeared character on a mass aoe fight, yeah...

498 ilvl is overgearing current heroics?
and if fire's aoe is irrelevant, than is arcane's single target irrelevant as well? or are we only comparing arcane's strengths to fire's weaknesses? it's not like i was going crazy trying to aoe... other than simply spreading my dots via inferno blast, there was no aoe used other than a single flamestrike throughout the entire fight.

[Deleted]

Taking a clearly overgeared character on a mass aoe fight, yeah...

From my point of view, you don't understand Wind Lord on HC (because it's far from a mass AoE fight), nor do you seem to understand that he's not overgeared at all. He's killed 6/16 HC and in fact 498 is about average for that progress.

Wind Lord is probably the only fight this tier where Fire performs consistently better than Arcane as 600% damage taken can actually lead to decent Combustions once again; and as these can be spread to adds once they respawn and you take it from there. That said, Arcane is still optimal on almost every other fight.

[elpadrino293]

From my point of view, you don't understand Wind Lord on HC (because it's far from a mass AoE fight), nor do you seem to understand that he's not overgeared at all. He's killed 6/16 HC and in fact 498 is about average for that progress.

Wind Lord is probably the only fight this tier where Fire performs consistently better than Arcane as 600% damage taken can actually lead to decent Combustions once again; and as these can be spread to adds once they respawn and you take it from there. That said, Arcane is still optimal on almost every other fight.

wouldn't the change to cleaves and damage modifiers, garalon leg issue that lead to the change, apply here as well?

[Deleted]

wouldn't the change to cleaves and damage modifiers, garalon leg issue that lead to the change, apply here as well?

Not 100% sure what you mean by this; you saying that Garalon is another fight where Fire is better due to Barrage Cleave fix?

[Aquamonkey]

first ask yourself the following question: "would you rather play as fire or arcane?"

• if the answer is "fire", than ilvl 0;
• if the answer is "arcane", than the ilvl is +∞;

I like how you specified positive infinity.

[elpadrino293]

Not 100% sure what you mean by this; you saying that Garalon is another fight where Fire is better due to Barrage Cleave fix?

saying that the 600% damage modifier from the boss doesn't hit for 600% on the adds in this case

"Sort of, and something we should take this opportunity to clarify. In Cataclysm, cleave-type mechanics double-dipped on damage bonuses, but we changed that universally in Patch 5.0 on a fundamental level. If you go back to Halfus or Wind Lord Mel'jarak, you'll find that cleave effects that derive their damage from the initial hit now only award the bonus damage on the target that is receiving increased damage.

Note that this works both ways. If you Sinister Strike a target that has a 50% damage reduction effect on it, your Blade Flurry will still do full damage to a secondary target, which previously would not have been the case." -blue quote

[Deleted]

first ask yourself the following question: "would you rather play as fire or arcane?"

• if the answer is "fire", than ilvl 0;
• if the answer is "arcane", than the ilvl is +∞;

I would love Fire, since I think that Fire is the funniest specc in the game! But as I raid in a pretty hardcore guild. I can´t just use whatever I like.