Boy... this makes me really eager to stop advocating mens rights...

[Deleted]

Why should he have a say in it? It's not his body that the baby would live and grow inside. If a man so badly wants a kid he should find a woman who wants one with him.



Both do but men are also equally responsible for creating a situation if pregnancy should arise.

Why? Not his body, not his responsibility.

[Deleted]

But they you just said Men have no right to opt out of it as men have a RESPONSIBILITY to see it through.
So, tell me, What is the male version of an Abortion then? Where is the "opt out of having a child" part for a man?"

Your opt out is by not having sex or having sufficient protection so that a pregnancy does not happen. You know, having sex is not exactly a right. You're not entitled to have sex just because you want to feel the pleasure it might give you.

Why? Not his body, not his responsibility.

No sperm = no pregnancy. If a man chooses to have sex then it is his responsibility just as much as it is the womans responsibility.

[Deleted]

Your opt out is by not having sex or having sufficient protection so that a pregnancy does not happen.

Ah, so only WOMEN are allowed post pregnancy opt outs?

Thank you for showing how sexist your opinion really is.


What if I am totally fine, using protection and everything, but some crazy girl pokes holes in the condom? Is that MY FAULT AND I SHOULD BE FORCED INTO BEING A MONEY SLAVE just because the woman rigged the game.

[Deleted]

Your opt out is by not having sex or having sufficient protection so that a pregnancy does not happen. You know, having sex is not exactly a right. You're not entitled to have sex just because you want to feel the pleasure it might give you.


No sperm = no pregnancy. If chooses to have sex then it is his responsibility just as much as it is the womans responsibility.

Then you contradict yourself. If a man is responsible for that, then he also is equally responsible for having a say in abortion. You cannot escape this double standard no matter how hard you try.

[Deleted]

Then you contradict yourself. If a man is responsible for that, then he also is equally responsible for having a say in abortion. You cannot escape this double standard no matter how hard you try.

No, he is not. No matter how much you'd want to control someone elses body.

[Deleted]

No, he is not. No matter how much you'd want to control someone elses body.

But it's OK to control someone financially right?

Also, answer my example above, what's the situation if the woman is sabotaging my "rights" of protection?

[Unalorian]

So, tell me, What is the male version of an Abortion then? Where is the "opt out of having a child" part for a man?"

Ever heard of condoms?

This discussion is beyond ridiculous, believe me: I have a 8 week old son now just sleeping by my side. I eye-witnessed the whole 7 month of my wife pain and discomfort (2 first months doesnt count), a >24-hour normal labor delivery, and now more pain with breast feeding every 2-3 hours, no sleep, post-labor depressions and what not. I even told my wife that after all I saw her go through, if it happens that she is pregnant again and want to opt-out, I will never hold any judgment on her.

So as you can see, coming with the "oh my mate had a girlfriend that aborted and now he is psychologically impaired" is plain silly.

[Cybran]

Your opt out is by not having sex or having sufficient protection so that a pregnancy does not happen. You know, having sex is not exactly a right. You're not entitled to have sex just because you want to feel the pleasure it might give you.

No sperm = no pregnancy. If a man chooses to have sex then it is his responsibility just as much as it is the womans responsibility.

So men have to just roll over and allow the biased system to rob them blind, because they are not women. You are saying that "female bodily integrity" >>>> men's rights? You do realise that this is sexism, correct?

Because the woman has 6 months to terminate her responsibily and the man has to live with her choice, how is this not sexism? Why does she decide for both of them?

[Deleted]

So men have to just roll over and allow the biased system to rob them blind, because they are not women. You are saying that "female bodily integrity" >>>> men's rights? You do realise that this is sexism, correct?

You're not entitled to have sex just because you're a man. How hard can it be to not have sex or use sufficient protection?

[Deleted]

Ever heard of condoms?

This discussion is beyond ridiculous, believe me: I have a 8 week old son now just sleeping by my side. I eye-witnessed the whole 7 month of my wife pain and discomfort (2 first months doesnt count), a >24-hour normal labor delivery, and now more pain with breast feeding every 2-3 hours, no sleep, post-labor depressions and what not. I even told my wife that after all I saw her go through, if it happens that she is pregnant again and want to opt-out, I will never hold any judgment on her.

So as you can see, coming with the "oh my mate had a girlfriend that aborted and now he is psychologically impaired" is plain silly.

And so you bring an example that as ZERO bearing on the situation, why exactly?


Let's say I go out with a woman, we get cosy, we end up doing the horizontal tango, I use protection and everything. But BAM, she gets pregnant, we do some DNA tests and it's confirmed mine.

Where am I in this situation now? If she chooses to keep it, I'm shit outta luck, despite my acts of prevention. If she chooses to abort, we're both off the hook.

So either way, my financial future is entirely in HER hands, I have zero control over my legal rights in this situation right now.


How is this fair?

---------- Post added 2013-01-20 at 11:38 AM ----------

You're not entitled to have sex just because you're a man. How hard can it be to not have sex or use sufficient protection?

I see you avoided my scenario again.

What happens if the Condom is sabotaged by the woman?

[Deleted]

No, he is not. No matter how much you'd want to control someone elses body.

You just said that it's a man responsibility as well because of his sperm. By that logic, he also has a say in abortion, because of his sperm. Why do you turn it around?


This is why I'll live and die alone. You just cannot trust people. If you are a man, and dare complain about an injustice, people tell you to "man up". Little do they know that men are also humans.

[silverhatred]

You're not entitled to have sex just because you're a man. How hard can it be to not have sex or use sufficient protection?

Look if you are going to have the woman choose whether she is having the baby or not and not let the man have any say then that should relieve him of his responsibility. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Deleted]

You're not entitled to have sex just because you're a man. How hard can it be to not have sex or use sufficient protection?

How many times has it not been fucking stated that the man doesn't have exactly the same responsibility for the kid because he does not have the right to terminate the pregnancy? With rights come responsibility, and it's ultimately the woman's responsibility whether the kid is born.

If we didn't value the woman's bodily integrity, then he should be able to force an abortion if he so wanted (and obviously the woman could also choose to abort if she didn't want the kid, regardless of what the man wants). But because we do value the woman's bodily integrity, the next best thing is for the man to be able to "abort" his financial responsibilities without violating anyone's bodily integrity. The woman can then choose whether to abort the kid or go against the fathers wishes and have the kid - but raise it on her own.

You're arguing the same shit that has been countered on every fucking page of this thread.

[Deleted]

Let us bring up a Hilarious Hypothetical.

A Man is raped by a woman, the woman gets pregnant off of the man. Where does the man stand in this?

If she is not caught and she asks for Alimony, he has to give it to her.

If she is caught, he now has a baby he has to look after or sign up for adoption.

[Deleted]

I see you avoided my scenario again.

What happens if the Condom is sabotaged by the woman?

Sorry for not spamming f5 every single second to see if anyone made a new post.

If you get your condom sabotaged then you've obviously failed on the "sufficient protection" part.

How many times has it not been fucking stated that the man doesn't have exactly the same responsibility for the kid because he does not have the right to terminate the pregnancy? With right's come responsibility, and it's ultimately the woman's responsibility whether the kid is born.

It's also up to the man whether there is a kid in the first place or not.

You just said that it's a man responsibility as well because of his sperm. By that logic, he also has a say in abortion, because of his sperm. Why do you turn it around?

I do not turn it around. It's in her body that the child is gonna be living and growing, it's her body that gets strained by a pregnancy, not the mans.

[Deleted]

It's also up to the man whether there is a kid in the first place or not.

Oh look. WE HAVE NOT COUNTERED THIS ON EVERY PAGE EITHER NOW HAVE WE?

The fact is that the woman gets the final say in whether a kid is born or not.

I'm getting really tired of this bullshit repeating. We counter every argument you make, and then you just start from the first argument again. This is some fucking groundhog day shit or something.

[Deleted]

If you get your condom sabotaged then you've obviously failed on the "sufficient protection" part.

So it's the MAN'S fault if he gets sabotaged?

What if he's Date Raped? Is it the MAN's fault to?

Why do Women get choices men do not?

Edit:

So basically, according to feminists, I am not allowed to protect myself from rapists, crazy abusive girlfriends and Gold digging women.

BUT IF EVER A MAN FORCES IT ON A WOMAN!

[Cybran]

You're not entitled to have sex just because you're a man. How hard can it be to not have sex or use sufficient protection?

Protection is not absolute and some women get pregnant on purpose to rob rich men/keep their boyfriends.

Regardless, how come the only option I have is protection? And women have protection, abortion and adoption? The way I see it us men are the inferior gender when it comes to reproduction. We suck at it. We are at the mercy of women, because our Y chromosome is an incomplete X, we are walking abortions at the genetic level and emotional cripples (according to feminists). As such why aren't we getting some rights to level the playing field? Aren't you gals about equality after all?

Give us a form to fill during the first 6 months. Where we state that the pregnancy is unwanted, we are not emotionally and financially ready for a child and that we want all our ties to the fetus cut off. A form that makes us not fathers, but sperm donors.

[Deleted]

Sorry for not spamming f5 every single second to see if anyone made a new post.

If you get your condom sabotaged then you've obviously failed on the "sufficient protection" part.



It's also up to the man whether there is a kid in the first place or not.



I do not turn it around. It's in her body that the child is gonna be living and growing, it's her body that gets strained by a pregnancy, not the mans.

How do you not turn it around if you apply different rules to two similar situations?

Can you not see the double standard in what you're saying. A man is responsible for a child because it's his sperm, but he cannot have a say in abortion because it's the woman's body? Well what about the "sperm" argument in this case? Where did it go?

I can say the same thing about responsibility when it comes to women: if a man cannot decide the fate of the unborn, then neither can he be held accountable for the birth of a child, since the child came from a woman's body which a man as no control upon.

[Deleted]

Why are you so against giving men some rights when it comes to protecting themselves against unwanted kids? Why should we be the only ones at risk of financial slavery for 20 years?

Do you really want to protect the abilities of gold digging whores to fuck over men's lives so bad?