Boy... this makes me really eager to stop advocating mens rights...

[starlord]

Yes, equating someone that wants equal rights to a child abandoner, when speaking about men is indeed man hate.

equating someone who talks about child abandonment in the name of equal rights with a child abandoner seems pretty reasonable. thats what refusing to support or care for your child is.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

So she should take full responsibility for her actions because he doesn't want to take any for his?

Try and think of it like this: What if abortion were not possible? In fact, at least in the US, this isn't really that far fetched; probably about half the country would prefer it not be legal and the majority look down on it.

That would make more sense IF abortion were not legal. But it is.

[TheBeardedOne]

thats not harm, no. as i said, giving both parents the "option" to force their responsibility on the other solves nothing.
abortion doesnt force responsibility on anyone like "opting out" does, so its not a valid reason to have it. neither is it a thing most women would do unless they were extremely desperate. its a last resort, not "lulz im opting out, c ya". those few that treat it as such are putting their health at risk.

there is really no basis for any inequality that doesnt amount to how peoples bodies work differently in this regard.

I'm sorry 18 plus years of added unwanted stress isn't harm? are you in touch with reality? By doing this you a denying a person of their bodily autonomy(you are forcing harm upon another person for 18 years at least), you are forcing harm onto another persons body, not to mention denying them of their lifestyle as well as their finances,
Secondly giving both parties the option to force responsibility (this is purely your opinion) onto the other is wrong but allowing one party to do it to the other is right?
Thirdly there is a clear bias that isn't based how peoples bodies work differently.

The option I gave doesn't force responsibility on anyone, it allows everyone the right to their bodily autonomy and it gives everyone a choice of what to do with their own lives and be responsible for their own choices

[starlord]

Abortion not legal, child support mandate continued: More single mothers.

Abortion not legal, child support mandate not continued: Women being much more careful/'tight-lipped' about who they have sex with.

at least guys wont get trapped from all that sex outside of marriage they wont be having.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

equating someone who talks about child abandonment in the name of equal rights with a child abandoner seems pretty reasonable. thats what refusing to support or care for your child is.

No, at this point of a man taking responsibility away, there would BE NO CHILD. If anything, if would be abandoning a fetus.

Just like how women aren't murdering babies, they are killing a fetus.

[LilSaihah]

at least guys wont get trapped from all that sex outside of marriage they wont be having.

You say that as though having sex with a random whore every weekend isn't a bad thing. ;o

[Wells]

No, at this point of a man taking responsibility away, there would BE NO CHILD. If anything, if would be abandoning a fetus.

Just like how women aren't murdering babies, they are killing a fetus.

Child support doesn't go to a fetus, it goes to a child. Saying you're not going to support your child when its a fetus doesn't make it any better. You don't get extra credit for letting the mom know you're going to be a deadbeat ahead of time.

[Aylasita]

What does men's rights have to do with Hating on women, or proving women are bad?

Nothing!

Just like women's rights have nothing to do with Hating on men, or proving men are bad.



Anyone coming at it from this angle is just proving themselves immature and frankly not very smart.

[Deleted]

Abortion not legal, child support mandate continued: More single mothers.

Abortion not legal, child support mandate not continued: Women being much more careful/'tight-lipped' about who they have sex with.

There's spillover between the two, of course; women will be more careful about who they have sex with even if they can get child support. People tend to be very careful about doing things that have harsh consequences, though, and not being drip-fed money will be a very real disincentive towards single motherhood.

Abortions would still happen even if they were illegal.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I'm starting to doubt you here.

Where did I say that you want to force women to get abortions?

I do apologize Wells. i cannot find a thing. I either misunderstood a different post, or mixed up who had said it.

Again, I apologize, sincerely. I also apologize this took so long, and that I put you on the back burner. Friends called me for a raid/rbgs.

[LilSaihah]

Abortions would still happen even if they were illegal.

I probably should've written "not possible" instead of "not legal" to more directly address the proposition.

[Wells]

I do apologize Wells. i cannot find a thing. I either misunderstood a different post, or mixed up who had said it.

Again, I apologize, sincerely. I also apologize this took so long, and that I put you on the back burner. Friends called me for a raid/rbgs.

I'm going to let it go in so much as I'm going to pretty much ignore you from this point on.

[Deleted]

I probably should've written "not possible" instead of "not legal" to more directly address the proposition.

But they are possible, women have been causing abortions by themselves long before science as of today.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Child support doesn't go to a fetus, it goes to a child. Saying you're not going to support your child when its a fetus doesn't make it any better. You don't get extra credit for letting the mom know you're going to be a deadbeat ahead of time.

I think there is a big difference. Its why there is a difference between aborting a baby at around 2 weeks, and doing it at 8.5 months. Saying I cannot/do not want to pay for and raise a child at this point in my life is exactly the intent behind getting an abortion, or later on in the pregnancy, putting it up for adoption. Some of you guys are totally forgetting that intent is totally important when judging something that a human being does. You could see an article where a man kills a dog, and warp it into a man torturing it to death. But the intent was putting it out of its misery.

---------- Post added 2013-01-21 at 02:34 AM ----------

Abortions would still happen even if they were illegal.

This does not matter in this conversation.

---------- Post added 2013-01-21 at 02:34 AM ----------

I'm going to let it go in so much as I'm going to pretty much ignore you from this point on.

Fair enough. Thats your choice. All I can do is apologize for being mistaken.

[starlord]

I'm sorry 18 plus years of added unwanted stress isn't harm? are you in touch with reality? By doing this you a denying a person of their bodily autonomy(you are forcing harm upon another person for 18 years at least), you are forcing harm onto another persons body, not to mention denying them of their lifestyle as well as their finances,

no. thats not what bodily autonomy is. just because i feel bad doesnt mean someone violated my body.
he owes the child, not the mother. children have rights to be supported for 18 years.

Secondly giving both parties the option to force responsibility (this is purely your opinion) onto the other is wrong but allowing one party to do it to the other is right?

theyre not forcing it, theyre choosing not to negate it. important distinction. having sex means you take responsibility for the results, whatever they may be.

Thirdly there is a clear bias that isn't based how peoples bodies work differently.

only if you dont understand how it works. mothers and fathers are both "forced" to care for their children. the only difference is a child is formed inside the mother.

The option I gave doesn't force responsibility on anyone, it allows everyone the right to their bodily autonomy and it gives everyone a choice of what to do with their own lives and be responsible for their own choices

no. it puts the entire responsibility on the mother to either abort, give up her child (she may not be able to do either because of her natural instincts), or raise it without help. i dont see how thats equal.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

no. thats not what bodily autonomy is. just because i feel bad doesnt mean someone violated my body.
he owes the child, not the mother. children have rights to be supported for 18 years.
theyre not forcing it, theyre choosing not to negate it. important distinction. having sex means you take responsibility for the results, whatever they may be.

only if you dont understand how it works. mothers and fathers are both "forced" to care for their children. the only difference is a child is formed inside the mother.

no. it puts the entire responsibility on the mother to either abort, give up her child (she may not be able to do either because of her natural instincts), or raise it without help. i dont see how thats equal.

Sorry, "natural instincts" is not a good excuse for raising a child you can;t support, or forcing another to give their money away on something you didn't want in the first place.

You doing something because of your instinct does not mean you are being forced. So she COULD do it, but chooses not to do so.

[starlord]

Sorry, "natural instincts" is not a good excuse for raising a child you can;t support, or forcing another to give their money away on something you didn't want in the first place.

You doing something because of your instinct does not mean you are being forced. So she COULD do it, but chooses not to do so.

during pregnancy and just after birth women feel certain hormones bonding them very tightly to their children. this is besides the fact that she shares her body with it. there is no more intimate connection. there are many mothers who made plans to abort or give up their children but were unable to because of this.

its just not cut and dry.

[LilSaihah]

during pregnancy and just after birth women feel certain hormones bonding them very tightly to their children. this is besides the fact that she shares her body with it. there is no more intimate connection. there are many mothers who made plans to abort or give up their children but were unable to because if this.

its just not cut and dry.

during puberty and just after puberty boys feel certain hormones bonding them very tightly to their dick. this is besides the fact that he shares his body with it. there is an intimate connection. there are many boys who made plans not to stick their dicks in things or become priests but were unable to because of this.

its just not cut and dry.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

during pregnancy and just after birth women feel certain hormones bonding them very tightly to their children. this is besides the fact that she shares her body with it. there is no more intimate connection. there are many mothers who made plans to abort or give up their children but were unable to because of this.

its just not cut and dry.

This does not mean anything would be forced on you, and does not make it anything more than a choice.

[starlord]

during puberty and just after puberty boys feel certain hormones bonding them very tightly to their dick. this is besides the fact that he shares his body with it. there is an intimate connection. there are many boys who made plans not to stick their dicks in things or become priests but were unable to because of this.

its just not cut and dry.

females experience this too, so im not sure what you're getting at.

---------- Post added 2013-01-20 at 11:49 PM ----------

This does not mean anything would be forced on you, and does not make it anything more than a choice.

i didnt say it wasnt. its hardly "the same choice" as simply walking out the door, no mess no fuss,though.