February 7: Blizzard Conference Call

[But I Hate You All]

Quoting myself for some damn'd good accuracy.

As to why the game's losing subs at peak season again: It's old.

And once again its old but has been updated and revamped quite a bit.

It's time to debunk the "its old or its 8 yrs old" bullshit

[Leonard McCoy]

And once again its old but has been updated and revamped quite a bit.

It's time to debunk the "its old or its 8 yrs old" bullshit

I mean you honestly can't though. People will keep parroting it, like the game is just this static thing that can't have any significant alterations. Yes it's old congratulaions. It's build on an old fucking model of doing things. You know what else was old? Talent trees. They got around to changing that didn't they? BUT WHAT HAPPENED IT WAS OLD? look at that it magically fucking changed. This whole it's old shit is really fucking tired argument. It's a massive fucking cop out in my opinion and it really shows you something about the people on this forum haters or fanboys. They just accept whatever is shoveled their way and don't bother to question anything.

Maybe we should put old wow in an old aged home? On life support? Hell the game is so fucking slow it feels like a senior citizen driving down the road...

[Deleted]

Losing 400k + subs in (essentially) the quarter you release an expansion is troubling.

Very good point.

Cata was still rising 3 months into expansion, and Wrath rose for a full year to the peak of all-time Wow subs around 12mill.

[Teriz]

I think part of the problem is how hideously out of date the models look now. I rolled a Pandaren, and then tried to roll a human. The Human just looked so awkward and stiff compared to the Pandaren that I just re-rolled another Panda.

The old races looked REALLY bad next to the newer Pandaria models and enemies.

They really need to update those character models.

[killidan]

To add on to what others have said. What is really hurting the game is dead realms. Blizzard saying the only way off is to pay for a server transfer or start over is basically a big "fuck you" in a lot of their eyes. Log into a dead server and you will know why so many people have left the game.

http://www.wowprogress.com/realms/rank/us

For the realms ranked 200 and below only 3 have 3000 lvl 90 characters. That's nearly 50 servers and only 3 have 3000+ Now lets look at the next 50 above them. They have 23 w/ 3000 lvl 90s.

To start they should fold those bottom 50 into the 50 above them (by time zones obviously.) This will infuse more players into dying servers and giving dying servers more players.

US-Eldre'thalas has been dead. Top guilds left the server or left the game or disappeared due to lack of recruits for raiding. We used to boast 15+ competitive raid guilds in TBC, now there is only one 25-man and 3-4 10-man guilds raiding normal/some heroic. People used to post for recruiting and first-kills on server forums, not it's all silent. Most guilds are casual and maybe few bosses into normal 10-mans. From being a relatively good server we went to a dead server within 2-3 years.

Blizzard has done nothing.

I simply refuse to pay money for THEIR failure to fix the problem.

---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 03:26 AM ----------

Meh, lots of people don't like the new daily model and Blizzard's response is basically to tell everybody they're wrong. Can't say I'm terribly surprised.

GC has been boneheaded for years now, I'm surprised more people haven't left since the 12M peak.

[Elian]

Here's my experience after getting MOP for $9.99 from black Friday deals
MISTS OF PANDARIA WAS:
You enter the 1st zone you meet the pandas
then you enter the 2nd zone and you meet even more pandas
after that, you enter the 3rd zone expecting things to be different, but, hey, again you meet the Pandas.
then you go to the next, Pandas again.
and so on and so forth until you hit lvl 90
after you hit 90 more dailies from pandas.
even CATA was better than this shit, at least it has variety in structures and lore.

[Loaf Lord]

Cata was still rising 3 months into expansion

Pretty sure Cata was bleeding from the beginning.

[Nimitzles]

US-Eldre'thalas has been dead. Top guilds left the server or left the game or disappeared due to lack of recruits for raiding. We used to boast 15+ competitive raid guilds in TBC, now there is only one 25-man and 3-4 10-man guilds raiding normal/some heroic. People used to post for recruiting and first-kills on server forums, not it's all silent. Most guilds are casual and maybe few bosses into normal 10-mans. From being a relatively good server we went to a dead server within 2-3 years.

Blizzard has done nothing.

I simply refuse to pay money for THEIR failure to fix the problem.

---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 03:26 AM ----------



GC has been boneheaded for years now, I'm surprised more people haven't left since the 12M peak.

Well making 25s = 10s is the biggest mistake they have made for the game.

[Elian]

it's going to be bad day for some GMs in the future, they will be laid off.

[ramennoodleking]

We like to discuss the game and thats what this thread is about.

Why are YOU here?

I was here to read the sub numbers, and then saw this timeless tirade of nonsense taking place. You aren't discussing the game, you are discussing why you think this decline in numbers means. If you don't like what's going on in the game don't play, but using declining numbers as some soapbox to spring board your disappointments really isn't warranted.

[Loaf Lord]

it's going to be bad day for some GMs in the future, they will be laid off.

Why? They're making record profits.

[killidan]

I was here to read the sub numbers, and then saw this timeless tirade of nonsense taking place. You aren't discussing the game, you are discussing why you think this decline in numbers means. If you don't like what's going on in the game don't play, but using declining numbers as some soapbox to spring board your disappointments really isn't warranted.

We are discussing why the numbers are declining, true. I do whatever I want, not any of your business. I can not play and come here and discuss the game suckage. So you complaining and crying won't change anything.

You came to a forum to read sub numbers? not much to read about it "in the forums". It is posted on the front page anyways.

9.6M

nothing else for you. You may find different kinds of discussion on some finance forum somewhere in the intertubez.

If you like the game so much, why not log in and play? kk thx bai

[MoanaLisa]

I mean you honestly can't though. People will keep parroting it, like the game is just this static thing that can't have any significant alterations. Yes it's old congratulaions. It's build on an old fucking model of doing things. You know what else was old? Talent trees. They got around to changing that didn't they? BUT WHAT HAPPENED IT WAS OLD? look at that it magically fucking changed. This whole it's old shit is really fucking tired argument. It's a massive fucking cop out in my opinion and it really shows you something about the people on this forum haters or fanboys. They just accept whatever is shoveled their way and don't bother to question anything.

You make it sound as if it's an entirely different game altogether. Yes, there have been lots of changes but the basic fact is that someone that quit in vanilla could be dropped into the game today and would recognize it pretty quickly, recognize most of the spell mechanics, and know where they are and quite a bit of what there is to do. While the game has been added to, changed and evolved a great deal over the years, in just about every way that truly matters it's still the same game and is immensely familiar to those who have stuck with it for half-a-decade or more. That is partially the basis for the "but it's old" argument and there's some truth to it. Anyone with half a brain can see and understand this.

Talent trees changed entirely yet my shadow priest is still casting the same spells pretty much as the last expansion. Mind Blast, Devouring Plague, Shadow Word: Pain and on and on have been staples of the game pretty much forever. Their inner workings change over time but they're still doing the same thing they've basically always done. My mage still feels like a mage, my shaman still feels like a shaman even after having the totem system totally overhauled.

So, if someone has played WoW for a long time, it is familiar to the point of being a little old. Whether or not one is tired of it is a personal thing but don't insult people's intelligence by implying that with all the changes over the years, the game now is akin to a totally brand new thing and wouldn't be recognizable to older players. It isn't. You know it, I know it. And a lot of other people know it too. Stop pretending otherwise.

[SamR]

Pretty sure Cata was bleeding from the beginning.

Didn't Osmeric keep bumping his thread about how the rate of decline in MoP was looking to be steeper than in Cata?

And people have already posted earlier in this thread that the quarter after Cata, WoW lost 600k subs.

So not only was Cata losing subs the first quarter after launch, it lost more subs that MoP did during that first quarter.

[Deleted]

TAKEN FROM BLIZZARDS FINANCIAL REPORT (conference call) :-

" As of December 31, 2012, Blizzard Entertainment’s World of Warcraft remains the #1 subscription-based MMORPG, with more than 9.6 million subscribers.2"

Now lets go down the page to check what that little 2 means.

"2According to Activision Blizzard internal estimates "

So basically the 9.6million is a total estimate from the guys at Blizzard. Basically they have to post this admission of guesswork for legal reasons because if theyre caught manipulating their own figures the taxman wont be happy.

Also, lets note that these figures are as at 31 December 2012, which is only 2 months after MoP release.

EDIT: dont forget that Asia dont use a subscription system at all. Their culture of gaming is with 'timecards' and Blizzard have always 'estimated' how many of these time cards are being used at one time. Basically they dont know and its almost impossible to count.

[Deleted]

EDIT: dont forget that Asia dont use a subscription system at all. Their culture of gaming is with 'timecards' and Blizzard have always 'estimated' how many of these time cards are being used at one time. Basically they dont know and its almost impossible to count.

its easy to count. Just take all accounts that logged in in the frame of 1 week and graph this for the whole quartal, this can be done automated during maintaince time.
You could even further distinguish between accounts who were active the whole time (played each week) and who are fuzzy (had weeks with no played time)
Just taking subnumbers here in eu is a bad examination in comparison, you dont know how many dont play but still got a sub running cause their plan was for several months.

tldr: theres no excuse, it can be done and actually better

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

TAKEN FROM BLIZZARDS FINANCIAL REPORT (conference call) :-

" As of December 31, 2012, Blizzard Entertainment’s World of Warcraft remains the #1 subscription-based MMORPG, with more than 9.6 million subscribers.2"

Now lets go down the page to check what that little 2 means.

"2According to Activision Blizzard internal estimates "

So basically the 9.6million is a total estimate from the guys at Blizzard. Basically they have to post this admission of guesswork for legal reasons because if theyre caught manipulating their own figures the taxman wont be happy.

Also, lets note that these figures are as at 31 December 2012, which is only 2 months after MoP release.

EDIT: dont forget that Asia dont use a subscription system at all. Their culture of gaming is with 'timecards' and Blizzard have always 'estimated' how many of these time cards are being used at one time. Basically they dont know and its almost impossible to count.

The update is why Blizz says its a best estimate. Asia is the wild card, and always the biggest fluxuator.

It's not a conspiracy to fix the numbers by not banning.bots or outright lying.

---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 11:11 PM ----------

its easy to count. Just take all accounts that logged in in the frame of 1 week and graph this for the whole quartal, this can be done automated during maintaince time.
You could even further distinguish between accounts who were active the whole time (played each week) and who are fuzzy (had weeks with no played time)
Just taking subnumbers here in eu is a bad examination in comparison, you dont know how many dont play but still got a sub running cause their plan was for several months.

tldr: theres no excuse, it can be done and actually better

Trouble is they play in coffee shops, and in many cases share accounts.

[Leonard McCoy]

You make it sound as if it's an entirely different game altogether. Yes, there have been lots of changes but the basic fact is that someone that quit in vanilla could be dropped into the game today and would recognize it pretty quickly, recognize most of the spell mechanics, and know where they are and quite a bit of what there is to do. While the game has been added to, changed and evolved a great deal over the years, in just about every way that truly matters it's still the same game and is immensely familiar to those who have stuck with it for half-a-decade or more. That is partially the basis for the "but it's old" argument and there's some truth to it. Anyone with half a brain can see and understand this.

Talent trees changed entirely yet my shadow priest is still casting the same spells pretty much as the last expansion. Mind Blast, Devouring Plague, Shadow Word: Pain and on and on have been staples of the game pretty much forever. Their inner workings change over time but they're still doing the same thing they've basically always done. My mage still feels like a mage, my shaman still feels like a shaman even after having the totem system totally overhauled.

So, if someone has played WoW for a long time, it is familiar to the point of being a little old. Whether or not one is tired of it is a personal thing but don't insult people's intelligence by implying that with all the changes over the years, the game now is akin to a totally brand new thing and wouldn't be recognizable to older players. It isn't. You know it, I know it. And a lot of other people know it too. Stop pretending otherwise.

Actually I wish it was totally new. That's the fucking point. IT ISN'T NEW ENOUGH. They haven't added or done enough to refresh the game, without enough innovation OF COURSE IT FEELS OLD. Then you'll say well yea it's old as a defense of sub loss as if that somehow means anything.

[Deleted]

Trouble is they play in coffee shops, and in many cases share accounts.

What does it matter? be it multiple people or bots, in terms of income all that matters is ammount of accounts that are frequently used. Hell in retrospect looking at played hours/timeframe equals exactly the income and is what should be measured.

[ramennoodleking]

We are discussing why the numbers are declining, true. I do whatever I want, not any of your business. I can not play and come here and discuss the game suckage. So you complaining and crying won't change anything.

You came to a forum to read sub numbers? not much to read about it "in the forums". It is posted on the front page anyways.

9.6M

nothing else for you. You may find different kinds of discussion on some finance forum somewhere in the intertubez.

If you like the game so much, why not log in and play? kk thx bai

I would log on, if I wasn't at work. But your response and word choice show me that you, yourself, are the whiner. You can bitch and moan about all the things you deem so destructive to this game, but in the end all it boils down to is your own personal opinion, and I can assure you your special little thoughts and reasonings are not going to make the slightest difference in te sub numbers.

So I go back to my original post, which asks why the fuck you guys are arguing about this at all. If you don't like the game, don't play it. If you like it, play it. And if you feel things need to change, don't try to throw in sub numbers. Clearly there are millions of players still fine with this game. The obsession people have other this "leaking subs" issue is mind bottling.