What are your opinions on mage direction as of patch 5.2 on the PTR

[Imnick]

Conditional effects on spells that aren't explicitly designed to have multiple states to start with (like Chakra) really are just bad design in general.

[schwarzkopf]

If it hit only 1 target per Charge that would mean that at 0 Charges it hits 0 targets?

Correct - there are no cleave targets with 0 charges.

---------- Post added 2013-01-31 at 01:16 AM ----------

You claimed 6 in your original post.

Yes - and it seems 6 is correct for the cleave effect.

[Rinoa]

NO ONE picks Cold Snap though and it's being nerfed, meaning they only want it used in PvP.

Hey, I use Cold Snap on Blade Lord and Amber Shaper! =P Double ice block for the debuffs is rather neat.

[Danaos]

Well, you could have the same thing with Greater Invisibility and get some damage reduce on top of it.

Edit: I know, immuntity can be neat but while in iceblock you cant move, cast etc with GI you can, even if the buff only stays 3 seconds this way. And dont forget you have normal iceblock than, too.

[Imnick]

I use Cold Snap on Vizier too, but mostly so that we can have someone sitting out and soaking Force and Verve in the event that the tank has dropped the boss in a dumb position and the domes are split up

[Sw1tch]

I don't mean to play devils advocate, but I think i'd actually consider taking BS in its current format with a 7-8 second CD. that's a TON of mobility. And The Ice Floes change might be pretty awesome if they made it more then 2 spells.

I like the changes in this build. It seems they might actually be listening. But until I see Water jet and BIG RoP changes I'll still be pretty unhappy.

[Xorn]

Great. No significant changes past what we already knew about Arcane, Blazing Speed isn't being changed from this "remove Blink" form, and RoP/IW still remain unchanged.

Time to abandon ship or do we keep rowing? (Especially those of us who want to play Fire/Frost)

(Although I do like the Arcane changes, we already knew about these a week or so ago when GC talked about them, plus, I like Fire/Frost better, but they don't seem to be fixing Fire or making Frost any better to compete with Arcane)

They still haven't made any balancing changes. All of the changes are still mechanics. Once they have the mechanics in place THEN we will see number tweaks. GC has said the Arcane and Affliction are doing too much damage right now, and since neither one has seen the nerf bat as of yet, you can bet they still haven't finalized spec balance.

[Zoros]

Ouch! No more Deep Freeze-Missiles-Missiles-Barrage? AHHHH Something good that arcane mages had... snif snif Y_Y

But considering that arcane damage is increased... maybe the shorter version would be good enough. Maybe we will see 200k+ barrage crits again in PvP, like before the trinket nerf. ^^

[Ataxus]

Can't really use Scorch as arcane anymore, too expensive =( 6000 base, and up to 42000 with 4 arcane charges. Ice Floes here we come.

[Deleted]

I just see that they also increase Ice Flow Duration to 15s. It give it a 30% uptime.

[Imnick]

They didn't remove the 2-spell cap though did they?

[Janir]

Btw what do you guys think is it worth of changing T14 hc tiers to T15 normal tiers or only when u get those T15 pieces on heroic?

[Deleted]

@Imnick: they only change the duration from 10s to 15s, no change to the number of charge nor the base-time restriction.
@Janir: It will depend. In pure bonus calculation, 2pT14+2pT15 could be pretty good. But if you take stat gear in account, the answer will be T15 normal.
T14Hm is 509 iLevel
T15Nm will be 522 iLevel

[Imnick]

It just seems slightly odd to me to be talking about the uptime of a spell that removes itself after two casts :P

[Deleted]

Presence of Mind and Ice Floes just need an overhaul in general to compete with Kil'Jaeden's Cunning or Hunters' ... being hunters...
1 minute cooldown for 1 instant spell (while moving) is just too long. Seeing as Scorch will get far less attractive in 5.2 we need some way to reliably cast while moving.

Maybe not all the time, we wouldn't want Mages to be just as good as Warlocks would we? ... -.- But more often than once a minute for 1 or 2 casts. On fights like Spirit Kings HC, Elegon for resetting stacks, Tsu'long for dropping stacks, Lei Shi in the Get Away phase, Stone Guard e.g. with Jasper and/or Cobalt on, Will for the adds, and so on, you just have to move more often than either Presence of Mind or Ice Floes support. Scorch is the only option for reliably casting while moving and we've yet to see if it's still worth taking in 5.2. The fact that it gets buffed by Arcane Charge is nice but that's for Arcane.

The point is Warlocks can cast any spell whenever they feel like it with KJC, whether it's once per minute or once every 2 seconds. We have to choose to either cast 1 spell per minute or 2 spells per minute or 1 specific weak spell whenever we want.

I still think that PoM and IF need to have either their "charges" increased or their CDs lowered or something but, seeing as they want Ranged DPS to stand still a lot as a trade-off for being ranged, I think in principle our talents are ok. Not great, don't love them, but giving that philosophy, ok.

But Warlock's KJC is overpowered. Increase the movement debuff to 50% or even higher - very rarely suffer from the debuff on my lock, it's just not a disadvantage 90% of the time - or have the passive effect have a number of charges e.g. 5 spells while moving then it's automatically on cooldown. Something. KJC in the current form is just way too strong compared to other casters.

[Elegiac]

Presence of Mind and Ice Floes just need an overhaul in general to compete with Kil'Jaeden's Cunning or Hunters' ... being hunters...
1 minute cooldown for 1 instant spell (while moving) is just too long. Seeing as Scorch will get far less attractive in 5.2 we need some way to reliably cast while moving.

Maybe not all the time, we wouldn't want Mages to be just as good as Warlocks would we? ... -.- But more often than once a minute for 1 or 2 casts. On fights like Spirit Kings HC, Elegon for resetting stacks, Tsu'long for dropping stacks, Lei Shi in the Get Away phase, Stone Guard e.g. with Jasper and/or Cobalt on, Will for the adds, and so on, you just have to move more often than either Presence of Mind or Ice Floes support. Scorch is the only option for reliably casting while moving and we've yet to see if it's still worth taking in 5.2. The fact that it gets buffed by Arcane Charge is nice but that's for Arcane.

The point is Warlocks can cast any spell whenever they feel like it with KJC, whether it's once per minute or once every 2 seconds. We have to choose to either cast 1 spell per minute or 2 spells per minute or 1 specific weak spell whenever we want.

I still think that PoM and IF need to have either their "charges" increased or their CDs lowered or something but, seeing as they want Ranged DPS to stand still a lot as a trade-off for being ranged, I think in principle our talents are ok. Not great, don't love them, but giving that philosophy, ok.

But Warlock's KJC is overpowered. Increase the movement debuff to 50% or even higher - very rarely suffer from the debuff on my lock, it's just not a disadvantage 90% of the time - or have the passive effect have a number of charges e.g. 5 spells while moving then it's automatically on cooldown. Something. KJC in the current form is just way too strong compared to other casters.

Or they could stop designing encounters with high mobility requirements.

[Swizzle]

Or they could stop designing encounters with high mobility requirements.

That's highly unlikely since movement, rather proper movement, is what differentiates the good from the bad and is possibly the easiest way to code in difficulty and pad boss HP totals.

[Akraen]

Hehe, Imnick, I just re-read your sig. Now it's ironic, I love it.

Frost is the hated on spec this expansion. I really would like to see a change that stops our choice from being turned into arcane blasts next patch.

Things are good now, frost is viable on every fight, I fear in 5.2 though I'll be forced to give in and go arcane.

[Elegiac]

That's highly unlikely since movement, rather proper movement, is what differentiates the good from the bad and is possibly the easiest way to code in difficulty and pad boss HP totals.

Ultraxion? XD

[schwarzkopf]

Played around with Blazing Speed on 5.2, and it looks promising.

My reasoning - Blink frequently fails due to bugs, gets you a shorter distance AND in a straight line. Blazing Speed has a shorter cooldown, further distance and you get to adjust on the way if you are quick (e.g. turn a corner etc).

Only downsides currently from my testing:
1. Moving backwards doesn't go far as blink does (with glyph of momentum) as it multiplies your backward speed.
2. You can't do a standing start like blink, you have to move, so it is far less of a OMG button than blink.
3. For PvP - a very noticeable flaming track for everyone to see.
4. No instant landing from falling like with blink, matter of fact no equivalent at all.

My suggestion to Blizzard would be - just share cooldowns on the two spells, have access to both.