4th spec and New models instead of new class and new race?

[MaximusRex]

I really doubt they will had 4th specs to all the classes, GC says at least once a week something along the lines of they need 11 classes not 34 specs for balancing. Pure DPS classes are already having issues with "My fav spec isn't the most bestest!"

It just doesn't make sense that they would toss such a giant wrench into the balance machine for such minor benefit.

[Teriz]

I really doubt they will had 4th specs to all the classes, GC says at least once a week something along the lines of they need 11 classes not 34 specs for balancing. Pure DPS classes are already having issues with "My fav spec isn't the most bestest!"

It just doesn't make sense that they would toss such a giant wrench into the balance machine for such minor benefit.

I don't think adding specs to existing classes would be a minor benefit. It would reinforce the current classes, and revitalize people's interests in their main characters.

Consider that there are a lot of people who are fans of WoW, or former players who stopped playing because their favorite classes just felt dull. I know plenty of Shaman players who left because they weren't able to use 2H melee or tank. When you add a new spec to a class, that new spec's attributes trickle throughout the entire class itself. If there's a tank spec, then some of those defensive abilities are going to pop up in Enhance, Restoration and Elemental as well. Suddenly former Shaman are interested in their class again. Players who like to tank are suddenly interested in this new tanking spec, and will give it a test drive. Players who left WoW because they were tired of the current DPS/Heal/DPS set up, or were completists who felt that Shaman should truly represent all 4 elements of nature are thinking about signing back up.

Multiply that by a factor of 10, and I see a pretty substantial benefit.

[Deleted]

I think new racial models will definitely be a major feature of the next expansion, and they'll show at least a few of them in the reveal cinematic next Blizzcon.

I don't think a 4th spec for all classes is going to happen. Adding another 10 specs would make the game even harder to balance than it is now. Not all players would welcome having a healing or tanking option for their pure dps class either.

As WoW's popularity has shown some signs of waning, there's pressure on them to deliver more stuff with each expansion. I'd guess we'll be getting a new class and new character models for the oldest races. Possibly another new race or two on top of that.

Also Ghostcrawler said this when asked if pure dps classes are here to stay. Seems like an unlikely answer if they were doing away with pures next expansion:

@DHockfield We talk about it often. I'm not sure all those pures would want to be hybrids though. Not as simple as oh just ignore that role.

@Seerows_Law Maybe they picked pure so they wouldn't have to deal with it.

[Keristrasza]

Well keep in mind; When you add a new class, you need to create all new spells, all new animation, possibly new icons, new talents, and properly balance the existing class with the new class.

When you add a spec, you can be a (bit) lazier. You can bring back older abilities, and have the new spec use older abilities from its class.

For example, I don't believe that redoing the Druid class was as tough as creating the entire Monk class.

Oh and its 10 specs. ;-)

Except in the druids case they had t hose spells (Most of them) already in the feral tree so it wasn't much work pulling those out and adding a handful of others if that. Bringing back old spells which were removed for balance issues and what not (Think the original corpse explosion for DK) they couldn't balance it with the class and so removed it. It was later added as a glyph .... that does absolutely no damage. Pure "Fun" glyph and nothing more.

Bringing back "old" spells and trying to balance them with a new class would take more effort and waste more time than simply 1 new class. Instead of fussing with 1 new class that might have 1 tree a little broken, you could potentially have up too 11 broken trees. You wouldn't simply be trying to balance 1 to fit the other 11 but rather trying to balance all 11 at the same time. Yes they do that currently but look at the start of an expansion with the new class how many tweaks it gets while others get maybe 1 or two changes.

To be completely honest I don't see the 4th spec happening, I would see new models and a new race coming out. It is POSSIBLE they won't but with Classic you had the original 8 races, 2 more in BC, a new class in Wrath, 2 new races in Cata and a New race and class in MoP. Every expansion not counting the original obviously had at least 1 new race save for Wrath. I could see them adding a new race or two along with new models IF those new models don't ship before the new expansion.

[Teriz]

I think new racial models will definitely be a major feature of the next expansion, and they'll show at least a few of them in the reveal cinematic next Blizzcon.

I don't think a 4th spec for all classes is going to happen. Adding another 10 specs would make the game even harder to balance than it is now. Not all players would welcome having a healing or tanking option for their pure dps class either.

As WoW's popularity has shown some signs of waning, there's pressure on them to deliver more stuff with each expansion. I'd guess we'll be getting a new class and new character models for the oldest races. Possibly another new race or two on top of that.

Also Ghostcrawler said this when asked if pure dps classes are here to stay. Seems like an unlikely answer if they were doing away with pures next expansion:

In the OP, the majority of pure classes stayed pure. Warlocks, Hunters stayed pure while Mages and Rogues went hybrid.

Also I changed the Hunter idea in the OP. Feedback would be welcome.

---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 08:53 PM ----------

Except in the druids case they had t hose spells (Most of them) already in the feral tree so it wasn't much work pulling those out and adding a handful of others if that. Bringing back old spells which were removed for balance issues and what not (Think the original corpse explosion for DK) they couldn't balance it with the class and so removed it. It was later added as a glyph .... that does absolutely no damage. Pure "Fun" glyph and nothing more.

Bringing back "old" spells and trying to balance them with a new class would take more effort and waste more time than simply 1 new class. Instead of fussing with 1 new class that might have 1 tree a little broken, you could potentially have up too 11 broken trees. You wouldn't simply be trying to balance 1 to fit the other 11 but rather trying to balance all 11 at the same time. Yes they do that currently but look at the start of an expansion with the new class how many tweaks it gets while others get maybe 1 or two changes.

To be completely honest I don't see the 4th spec happening, I would see new models and a new race coming out. It is POSSIBLE they won't but with Classic you had the original 8 races, 2 more in BC, a new class in Wrath, 2 new races in Cata and a New race and class in MoP. Every expansion not counting the original obviously had at least 1 new race save for Wrath. I could see them adding a new race or two along with new models IF those new models don't ship before the new expansion.

Except game expansion and development shouldn't be hampered just for PvP balance. PvP has never been balanced, and it never will be balanced. Achieving perfect balance is impossible, and even if we reached the most balanced point imaginable in the history of WoW, people would still complain.

An expanding game with expanding options is preferable to a couple of people in arena playing a digital version of rock-paper-scissors.

[Deleted]

In the OP, the majority of pure classes stayed pure. Warlocks, Hunters stayed pure while Mages and Rogues went hybrid.

Also I changed the Hunter idea in the OP. Feedback would be welcome.

You'd still be asking for mages and rogues to become hybrids even if they don't want to. You'd also have some warlocks and hunters upset that they're not getting a tanking or healing spec. It doesn't really make sense to eliminate only half of pure classes if you're going that route.

[Darkhallows]

I've actually made some 4th Spec templates. My Mage one was exactly the same as the one mentioned. It just sounds REALLY cool.

Although, my Warrior spec was actually a healing spec that used mana and shouts. I might post some of it, it turned out pretty good I think.

My DK was similar, I called it a Blightcaller and it had a new type of rune to replace Blood runes called Blight runes; blight rune abilities placed "Blight" on the target that increased damage taken by the target gradually, and stacked up to a certain amount like Agony. However, Blight doesn't do any damage of its own, and can spread to other targets through use of...some other ability that caused the blight to burst. In addition, I had various DK abilities become ranged abilities, and take on different properties. (Some of them, like Obliterate, PS and BS kept their basic properties, but changed in cost, cooldown, etc.) In addition, I gave Blightcallers a Nerubian perma-pet that only attacks Blighted targets.

My Shaman tank spec was similar, but utilized alot of bleeds, used shields, and had a stone spike shockwave attack.

[Teriz]

You'd still be asking for mages and rogues to become hybrids even if they don't want to. You'd also have some warlocks and hunters upset that they're not getting a tanking or healing spec. It doesn't really make sense to eliminate only half of pure classes if you're going that route.

Why would they be upset? Their favorite DPS spec is intact from previous games.

So we'd have pure players mad about not being hybridized and some pure players mad about becoming hybridized? Okay...

Again, change doesn't please everyone, nor should it attempt to. You should just try to appease as many people as possible while moving the game forward.

[Deleted]

Why would they be upset? Their favorite DPS spec is intact from previous games.

So we'd have pure players mad about not being hybridized and some pure players mad about becoming hybridized? Okay...

Yes. Why is that hard to understand?

It's not as simple as just ignoring the extra spec and continuing on as if the 4th spec doesn't exist. With new roles people would have expectations of you. At the very least you'd have to deal with turning down people asking you to tank or heal. And some people would think less of you if you were a rogue who refused to ever tank, as if you were not playing to the full extent of your class.

Heck, the very post I linked to by Ghostcrawler has some people replying that they rolled pure dps classes so they wouldn't have to deal with the pressure to heal or tank.

When the lead systems designer is saying they've talked a lot about it but think it has problems, do you really think it's a likely feature for the next expansion?

[Soulwind]

It really depends on how far are those models in development. The next expansion should be announced in Blizzcon, late 2013. Will they be ready for a preview then? Or for the expansion release date even? Those things take a lot of time.

Appart from that, I'm not sure the current classes need a fourth spec, and it is far less impressive of a feature than a whole new class, even if it affects the game more deeply.

[Deleted]

It really depends on how far are those models in development. The next expansion should be announced in Blizzcon, late 2013. Will they be ready for a preview then? Or for the expansion release date even? Those things take a lot of time.

They don't have to have all the races ready for the preview. It'll probably be human and orc models first as the most iconic races, and possibly a few other popular races. If they don't get all 8 done in time for release, they could also deliver some of them in content patches.

[Deleted]

Just give me my playable Nerubian or Mantid race and I won't ever ask for anything ever again for a few months.

[Thimagryn]

Really? I applied a healing spec for Mages and a tanking spec for Rogues in the OP. Those are hardly a rehash of old DPS roles.

Yeah, and those ideas don't work for obvious reasons. He (as well as many others) is saying you can't add a 4th spec to Mages and Rogues that isn't a DPS spec. It will change the identity of the class.

Druids were always 4 spec classes. Feral was always half Tank half DPS. Rogues were never tanks, Mages were never healers. The transition doesn't work.

[Soulwind]

They don't have to have all the races ready for the preview. It'll probably be human and orc models first as the most iconic races, and possibly a few other popular races. If they don't get all 8 done in time for release, they could also deliver some of them in content patches.

If that happened, the shitstorm would be legendary. No, I do think they will be one of the key features of the next expansion, I'm just worried about some of them being rushed to make it in time for the release. Like the worgen and female pandaren were. That is somewhat forgivable for new races, it isn't when you are replacing people actual characters.

[thunderdragon2]

tbh id rather have 4th spec and something else never really cared much for new models but that's just me

[Clash the DK]

Priority number one would be to not force pure classes into a tank or healer role. With that being said, I don't have all the answers. But, this would be my starting template on the 4th spec idea:

Death Knight - (Wrath or Shadow) 2H DPS Spec (Splitting up the two Frost play styles and bridging the gap left by our long lost Blood DPS Spec)

Druid - Done

Hunter - (Tactics) The Melee Hunter

Mage - (Elemental or Battle or War) Battlemage/Warmage archetype with a focus on Fire damage.

Monk - No Idea (Not enough experience with this class) Ranged spell caster could make sense here.

Paladin - (Justice) - 2H Weapon / Shield DPS Spec (Titans Grip but different)

Priest - (Inquisition) - Holy spell DPS Spec

Rogue - (Sabotage) - Ranged DPS Spec (DW Xbows?)

Shaman - (Spirit or Spirit Mastery) - Melee DPS spec with permanent Spirit Wolf pet?

Warlock - (Corruption) - Demon Hunter type Melee Spec

Warrior - (Blade Mastery or Carnage) - Titans Grip spec (Splitting up the two Fury play styles)

[Teriz]

Yeah, and those ideas don't work for obvious reasons. He (as well as many others) is saying you can't add a 4th spec to Mages and Rogues that isn't a DPS spec. It will change the identity of the class.

If that were true, no utility abilities would have been added to either class. In early WoW neither of those classes had healing abilities, now both have substantial ways to heal themselves. Classes change over time.

Let's also not forget that there are examples of Rogues tanking in other media and RPGs, so it isn't unheard of for a Rogue/thief character to be a tank.

Mage healing is a bit tougher to justify, which is why the time model works so well since there are examples of Mages both using and healing with temporal magic.

Druids were always 4 spec classes. Feral was always half Tank half DPS. Rogues were never tanks, Mages were never healers. The transition doesn't work.

Actually it works just fine if we're expanding the classes. That's all a 4th spec would do really; Expand the current classes in the game.

[Imnick]

Rogues were actually pretty good at dodge tanking for significant periods of Vanilla and TBC if your tank was dead or for certain boss mechanics like council fights

[Kathranis]

-snip-

Honestly, the problem with your Runemaster concept is that it is basically nothing like what a Runemaster is supposed to be. Runemaster would make more sense as a monk spec than a DK spec.

That's as bad as those people who say Demon Hunter should be a Hunter spec and use crossbows.

Runemasters are martial artists who use runes to armor and arm themselves with arcane power. Honestly, though they would now strongly overlap with monk, I think they would have best been implemented as a full class, with additional specs inspired by the RPG's Inscriber and Ley Walker classes.

[Yig]

As much as being able to play as more iconic characters from Warcraft 3 is important to me, I think ultimately WOW needs new things to do in it.

I've fought WOW burn out going back to a little before TBC, and whenever it kicks it, I still have the urge to log in and do,.... something, I just don't want to do anything available to me because I've done it so much, but there is still an affection for moving my character around and having a reason to look around and talk to old friends. This has always presented the issue of "well, too much change and the game is now a new and different game than the one you liked", but I think Blizzard, in their ever so painfully slow way, has gotten comfortable with adding things to do rather than changing the core options of the game with MOP. Which seemed obvious to me, but I can imagine how hard a 10-12 million player car can be to turn left or right on the highway of game design.

I hope we see more things like farming and pet battles and scenarios and proving grounds and the fighter's guild.

More, more, more. I still haven't tried farming, but I love the idea of player housing and maintaining your own custom symbol of your journey in this game. For 8 years, that's been an overflowing bank to me.

New player models are a given, more customization is dearly hoped for, but under that I just want new things to keep me stimulated.