People's fascination with MOBA games

[Wildmoon]

Maybe, but most ppl wouldn't consider a 10s earlier stim to be a completelly new strategy. I am not saying it's not, but usually what ppl see are army comps that are viable to build and there are not that many in SC2. If you look at runes/summoners/item builds/counterpicking in MOBAs there is plenty of very varied strategical play just in that.

Unit composition is just only a part of strategy. People who think strategy is unit composition simply don't understand the term. This is like saying Terran have 2 strategies which are mech and bio. -_-" Most people you are talking about may be people who simply don't get RTS game.

[Fencers]

The skill cap for LoL champions is much higher than what the average LoL player is likely to reach. Yet alone for the entire roster of LoL's champions. And yes, LoL isn't the most mechanically demanding of MOBAs either. It's one of the easiest MOBAs.

If we are talking about DOTA2, for example, there is no video game currently that is more complex, thoughtful or demanding of individual and team skill.

The only games I know of that touch the complexity and mastery required in DOTA are the ancient mech based games such as Battletech or Metal Fatigue. Not counting direct simulation games either such as advanced flight sims involving helicopters and such.

Gameplay isn't a debate. It's an absolute fact.

[Wildmoon]

The skill cap for LoL champions is much higher than what the average LoL player is likely to reach. Yet alone for the entire roster of LoL's champions. And yes, LoL isn't the most mechanically demanding of MOBAs either. It's one of the easiest MOBAs.

If we are talking about DOTA2, for example, there is no video game currently that is more complex, thoughtful or demanding of individual and team skill.

The only games I know of that touch the complexity and mastery required in DOTA are the ancient mech based games such as Battletech or Metal Fatigue. Not counting direct simulation games either such as advanced flight sims involving helicopters and such.

Gameplay isn't a debate. It's an absolute fact.

A lot of RTS games are more demanding that Dota. Even WC3 which I don't really consider to be that demanding mechanically is more demanding that original Dota.

[CaptainArlong]

You can ignore most of these replies. It's because they're free to play, which will skew the numbers. It has nothing to do with skill, it's because they're 100% free.

[melodramocracy]

It actually sort of does. Game knowledge has a direct impact on game difficulty in any game. And in lol, (don't play dota) there's a ridiculous amount of game knowledge you need to compete. Like, if you don't recognize the big yellow robot guy, and realize that he has a spell that will grip you into his team, and that said spell obeys unit collision, you'll just be a free kill. Bonus points if you have the CD memorized so you know how long you have to make a play after a missed Blitz hook.

For people trying to understand the appeal of lol as an esport, you should try watching the following game.

http://www.twitch.tv/riotgames/b/407917042?t=2h50m15s

Eh, I guess I'm just old. E-sports for me = quakecon and things like that.

[kratos23]

The skill cap for LoL champions is much higher than what the average LoL player is likely to reach. Yet alone for the entire roster of LoL's champions. And yes, LoL isn't the most mechanically demanding of MOBAs either. It's one of the easiest MOBAs.

If we are talking about DOTA2, for example, there is no video game currently that is more complex, thoughtful or demanding of individual and team skill.

The only games I know of that touch the complexity and mastery required in DOTA are the ancient mech based games such as Battletech or Metal Fatigue. Not counting direct simulation games either such as advanced flight sims involving helicopters and such.

Gameplay isn't a debate. It's an absolute fact.

fact. yep. you're so full of shit. it's ridiculous. individual skill? have fun with your 2-4 abilities. moba's are a fuckin' joke individual skill-wise compared to sc2 or especially sc:bw. you need like 300 apm to play sc:bw competitively, in LoL or dota 2, you need about what? 50?.


Please don't necro a thread just to make an inflammatory post.

[Deleted]

fact. yep. you're so full of shit. it's ridiculous. individual skill? have fun with your 2-4 abilities. moba's are a fuckin' joke individual skill-wise compared to sc2 or especially sc:bw. you need like 300 apm to play sc:bw competitively, in LoL or dota 2, you need about what? 50?.

APM is 100% indicative of skill required.

[RoKPaNda]

Mobas are popular because they're casual addictive fun with a generally low skill ceiling as compared to other competitive video games. They required teamwork, but individual skill requirements are pretty low. Plus when you lose you can blame a variety of things other than yourself, while in other competitive games you usually only have yourself to blame.

[Deleted]

I've enjoyed my share of Dota/LoL over the years, but the main problem for me is loosing takes too long, and is too rage inducing.

In something like CS or TF2, I can loose, but still have fun shooting and blowing up dudes, but in a MOBA\ARTS, loosing is a 45 minute chain of failure, chat window rage, ragequitters and feeders. This is less of an issue if you roll with a regular team of buddies, but going solo ranked into something like Lol is possibly the least fun you can have with your PC imo.

But, I see the appeal overall. They're pretty fun games at their core, but I've never cared enough to get seriously involved.

[vep]

But that is knowledge, not skill (I count hand motorics, reflexes, etc as skill) - IMO.

I was always able to notice what made games popular, even if I didn't find the game good myself. But this time I'm giving up, I do not understand how MOBA is so popular. I'm going to just put my MOBA popularity theory as "casualization", due to the way MOBAs are played in the sense that they require more knowing and less skilling.

Good day

First off: hand motorics, reflexes etc are not skill. It's just muscle memory, it's very present in rock climbing, too (not that it matters, just mentioning).

Second: yeah, I've never liked DoTA2 either. It's incredibly slow paced and generally boring. And most of the champions have plain out boring abilities who, to me, don't even seem very responding.
But I like League of Legends. It's fairly polished when it comes to mechanics. Everything is smooth and feels responsive and the game is more fast paced than DoTA2.

Now, if you think skill hasn't got much to do with LoL you should really watch all the 140+ videos of top 5 plays.... There are some very impressive plays there.

[Deleted]

It's incredibly slow paced

You wot.
I say this because neither game is noticeably faster-paced on any level of play.

[Deleted]

I dunno. I'd think attack/spellcasting animations and turnrates in Dota 2 gives people the impression of a slower game than League of Legends. Then again, LoL has other quirks in other areas than the combat.

[Duronos]

I dunno. I'd think attack/spellcasting animations and turnrates in Dota 2 gives people the impression of a slower game than League of Legends. Then again, LoL has other quirks in other areas than the combat.

There was something about DOTA 2 I was never a fan of, the way the entire game looks, it just hurts for me to look at it and the other thing is that I don't have time to learn another game considering I'm working on my ranked in LoL and it will take months before I get half decent at another MOBA, knowing builds etc.

[Beat5beat]

I've even been forcing myself to play Dota2 for the past few days

There is your problem right there. LoL is superior to Dota2 in pretty much every way for enjoyability. It has more characters to play, better lit screen, graphics are easier to distinguish, depth of the game is greater. Action is more fast paced and frequent, time to find a game is significantly shorter. And most importantly, the screen is zoomed out to an appropriate level in LoL. Dota2 you are forced into this ridiculously super zoomed in camera angle.

I have played almost all of them, original Dota, Dota2, HoN, LoL, several free ones on steam as well. LoL is far and away the most polished and most enjoyable, probably why more people play it than any other and will continue to do so.

[Deletedaccount1]

I play Dota quite a bit but I still think the genre is incredibly overrated for what it is.

Edit: Now all the Moba fanboys are fighting, you should just keep to your threads.

[Beat5beat]

LoL pretty much has everything going for it. It exploited the large existing player base of DotA while creating a clone
of it but with a lot less punishing game play. No gold loss from death, no need for creep denying, towers are a ton stronger
especially early on.

All improvements to the gameplay to create more exciting matches. Gold loss on death combined with gold gained by killing creates huge snowballing issues in Dot2. Gold loss on death was always a bad mechanic. Creep denying, while creating a higher skill ceiling sets up the match for a more boring play style. Fighting between multiple players on the teams regularly begins at level 1 in LoL, and guaranteed by level 3, not so in Dota2. Stronger towers requires teams to play more strategically early and more as a team. Gameplay is just straight up superior in LoL to Dota2. Funny thing is all "Dota2 badasses" who say things like "LoL is such a newb game" would get their asses handed to them by Bronze level LoL players.

Once I hit level 6 or something I just quit playing as everyone else had flash and I couldn't use it due to my
low summoner level. I mean the game is supposed to be competitive, but while still leveling your account other people will just have
clear advantages over you.

Flash isn't that gamebreaking, especially at level 6. If you are losing to level 10 players because you don't have flash, this is really a L2P issue. Any half decent player could start a game as level 5 and completely take over the game, because most players playing at level 1-20 have no idea what they are doing.

[theburned]

There is your problem right there. LoL is superior to Dota2 in pretty much every way for enjoyability. It has more characters to play, better lit screen, graphics are easier to distinguish, depth of the game is greater. Action is more fast paced and frequent, time to find a game is significantly shorter. And most importantly, the screen is zoomed out to an appropriate level in LoL. Dota2 you are forced into this ridiculously super zoomed in camera angle.

I have played almost all of them, original Dota, Dota2, HoN, LoL, several free ones on steam as well. LoL is far and away the most polished and most enjoyable, probably why more people play it than any other and will continue to do so.

There is no problem in trying out dota 2 first, the issue lies in forcing himself to play a game without trying out other options first. Makes you seem quite ignorant to say that dota 2 is superior to dota 2 when it comes to enjoyability, as for me and lots of other players dota 2 is superior to LoL, you only have a single decent arguement which is shorter queue times, the rest comes down to preference. Not sure why I bother to write a reply to someone who is clearly a fanboy of what he feels is his game, but here it goes anyway.
LoL is easier to learn, and requires less skill, it is somewhat decent paced though, Dota 2 is too slow paced and feels too static, and turnrates somehow feels annoying. Though I find LoL annoying because you mostly play a group of heroes, 3-10, when I play HoN or dota 2 I feel like I can play most heroes, some exceptions of course, for me that seems to be the ones requiring micro. In LoL I feel locked down to 3-4 heroes, and locked too much into one role, and having a bad game because someone out is calling out that role is annoying.
All of them have their flaws, in the end it is all about personal preferences, and tends to follow your friend circle. In the end LoL has most players, and that will attract more. Something that seems to be the result of an easy to grasp game, a lot more forgiving than it's counterparts, f2p model vs p2p models, which the other games in the genre have been following. Just saying that most players != best game, just most successful.

To a bit more On-topic instead of just ranting at fanboys.
What makes the MOBA games so popular, it is the versatility of each game most games are played differently and it comes down to a lot of tactic and decision making (sometimes it leads to indivduality), the rounds are relatively short 15-40 minutes each (of course a lot of exceptions), The basics are quite easy to learn, perfecting them is something different though. They are very engaging thus leading to a lot of frustration, but would you get mad at something that you didn't care much about. Also they are free to play which helps a lot, especially cause people love to spend money on stuff they can get for free appearently.

[Rucati]

There is your problem right there. LoL is superior to Dota2 in pretty much every way for enjoyability. It has more characters to play, better lit screen, graphics are easier to distinguish, depth of the game is greater. Action is more fast paced and frequent, time to find a game is significantly shorter. And most importantly, the screen is zoomed out to an appropriate level in LoL. Dota2 you are forced into this ridiculously super zoomed in camera angle.

I have played almost all of them, original Dota, Dota2, HoN, LoL, several free ones on steam as well. LoL is far and away the most polished and most enjoyable, probably why more people play it than any other and will continue to do so.

This is like... Just wrong. Like it isn't even opinion, it's just provably wrong. More characters? LoL has 114 that you have to pay to unlock, DotA has 102 that you can play right off the bat.

Graphics are just opinion. Personally I think LoL looks like it was designed by a 10 year old that really likes cartoons.

Depth of LoL is greater? What? All LoL is is skill shots, that's it. There's no denying. There's no game changing items. Lost your rax (or whatever they're called in LoL) who cares, it just respawns after like two minutes. Last hits don't even really matter. Playing support? Don't worry, just buy items that give you gold over time and you never have to worry about anything again.

And the camera really doesn't seem particularly different in either game, to be honest. DotA 2 probably is zoomed in a bit more, but I've never felt I couldn't see things I needed to, you just need better awareness looking at your minimap to anticipate people coming.

Yes, LoL is good for kids with ADD that need action constantly, but it has a lower skill ceiling and far less interesting mechanics. As in, it only has one mechanic, skill shots, that's it. Yup, exciting.

[Remilia]

Let's keep away from the game vs game please

[theburned]

This is like... Just wrong. Like it isn't even opinion, it's just provably wrong. More characters? LoL has 114 that you have to pay to unlock, DotA has 102 that you can play right off the bat.

Graphics are just opinion. Personally I think LoL looks like it was designed by a 10 year old that really likes cartoons.

Depth of LoL is greater? What? All LoL is is skill shots, that's it. There's no denying. There's no game changing items. Lost your rax (or whatever they're called in LoL) who cares, it just respawns after like two minutes. Last hits don't even really matter. Playing support? Don't worry, just buy items that give you gold over time and you never have to worry about anything again.

And the camera really doesn't seem particularly different in either game, to be honest. DotA 2 probably is zoomed in a bit more, but I've never felt I couldn't see things I needed to, you just need better awareness looking at your minimap to anticipate people coming.

Yes, LoL is good for kids with ADD that need action constantly, but it has a lower skill ceiling and far less interesting mechanics. As in, it only has one mechanic, skill shots, that's it. Yup, exciting.

Skill shots? half of the "skills shots" are really easy to hit, and there are loads of abilities where you can just click the opponent, and agreed on the cartoon stlye, I remember first time playing LoL, I was practically in LOL mode, laughing about how bad the graphics were, and how stupid the characters looked like, and how easy it was to play, sadly I was bored because there was no points to outplay my opponent on.(getting more last hits, yeah..... so fun)

Also can someone tell me how LoL has any depth whatsoever, without using vague explanation that doesn't mean anything.