The kindness of creeps

[Fenixdown]

Some girls like attention. They don't care how they get it or where it comes from. The girls you describe are those types.

[Deleted]

Because males can't sell their sexuality so easily.

Ahh, so it is jealousy at its core. OK, thank you for clearing that up.

---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 06:42 PM ----------

Just fyi... not all women accept these gifts.

I just recently had a brand new member to our guild send
me several unique and rare pets. When I asked the other officers
if they'd received the same pets and the answer was No, I sent the pets
back to the new member with a note saying "No officer will accept gifts,
raid spots are earned by attendance and quality performance."

Poor fellow was gone in a week, but yea... Not all of us are braindead boobs.

You can also just accept gifts and not promote them. This way, they may learn their lesson, and you did nothing wrong since a gift is a gift. From Wikipedia: "A gift or a present is an object given without the expectation of payment. Although gift-giving might involve an expectation of reciprocity, a gift is meant to be free."

And really there is nothing wrong, at all, gifting someone, nor accepting it. I remember gifting a guildie who just got out of hospital for 6 weeks. Really, I don't see the problem with that at all. I've also gifted presents for birthdays in WoW.

The problem is these creeps who demand something back from their gift in the form of pictures or whatever. Unfortunately that is something of all times in society in general, not limited to gaming or WoW.

[Crawford]

I was under the impression that this was something women (or "women") had to really work at. Like, you'd have to prowl around for a specimen pathetic enough to lap up whatever faux affection you feed them, and only then could you con them into free shit. An arduous process.

Still. It's interesting.

I don't think so. I made level 1s on about 20 different high-pop servers and talked to everyone with a dragon kite or a spectral tiger cub out. By and large, these didn't seem like manipulative femme-fatale types at all.

I think if you make it known that you're a girl, you get dudes creeping on you.

Also, I kind of feel like if there were a lot of nude pics getting traded for this stuff, more of the pics would be getting posted on the Internet. I think guys offer girls unsolicited gifts, and the girls take them because it seems awkward to turn it down, or because they want the stuff and they think it's harmless.

But a dude who can buy a Spectral Tiger can probably also buy a plane ticket, and most players don't do much to protect their anonymity.

[Cybran]

Ahh, so it is jealousy at its core. OK, thank you for clearing that up.

You broke my disguise. What ever shall i do now!

The problem is these creeps who demand something back from their gift in the form of pictures or whatever. Unfortunately that is something of all times in society in general, not limited to gaming or WoW.

The problem is the behaviour some of the many "girl gamers" that encourage such behavior.

Blame society for putting insistance on boobs, not people.
One can't critic someone else for doing something when said person is attempting to do the exact same (with whatever is left available). That's just terribly hypocritical.

Asking for Likes/Subs and Asking for Likes/Subs for cleavage is not the same though.

[Justignoreme]

Gold-digging is facilitated by the internet.
Until e-whoring becomes a prosecutable crime, these manipulative women will simply have free reign over weak-willed men, and do so without recourse on account of doing it over the internet.

[SirMeo]

The problem is the behaviour some many "girl gamers" that encourage such behavior.

No, it's both sides.Without the other there would not be the other, don't make this "evil women ruin it for the men." Being an idiot is not a gender-specific feature.

There definitely is no shortage of people who do anything for attention, and some of these people are indeed women, who might or might not have it easier just because they can promise some pictures of boobs (why this works, I'm not sure, as if the internet had some kind of shortage of pictures of ladies doing various things in varying states of clothing - I guess it's different if there is some kind of "personal connection?") unlike men who might have it harder to find audience just by that.

But the thing is, if you (general you, not "you" specifically) do anything just for some boobs it's not only her fault you're like that.




That being said, back when in WotLK when I played a blood elf female and people actually assumed I'm a female (I am, but after I started playing undead men people stopped assuming that :P) I got some pet offers and the like just because I'm a lady person, and in no way did I do anything that would imply in any way I'd be interested in even being friends with those people.
It was not really that prelevalent, not an everyday occurrence and certainly not the point of being actual harassment, but I don't really want to think what kind of friends I'd have if I'd even agreed to receive those gifts.

[Deleted]

But a dude who can buy a Spectral Tiger can probably also buy a plane ticket, and most players don't do much to protect their anonymity.

I agree, and not only in this specific context. It is a sign of our times that it is possible to meet virtually any person on the Internet and with our digital trail we leave a lot of information behind, including information we don't want everyone (in the future) to know! It is a very important subject we must educate our children about, that they shouldn't share all their private data with the rest of the world... and look what they're doing on Facebook! We, as a society, are failing! You can be angry at child predators (who most likely actually search for local victims) but its the system's platforms (e.g. Facebook) and culture (share all your private info with everyone) which provides the toolkit. And then I'm not even covering the problem of hacking etc.

[Chloral]

Am I the only one that only know MEN playing female char and then asking for free stuff?

I don't know a single legit IRL female that is older than 18 do this.

[lanerios]

It's from both sides. And tbh, I am getting sick of this self righteous female banter "We do nothing wrong" etc.

Let's look at it another way, women want equal rights throughout the years. Yet when they get that, what happens? They start creating Livejournal groups called "Girl gamers" just to emphasise the fact that they are treated so unequally in WoW. What is the result of that? Whiney MMO champion posts that complain that women are always the subject of creeps or other stuff.
Guess what? The more you put attention on the fact that you're female, or that you're so lonely/ugly "Omg, I feel so ugly today teehee" in TS etc.

Yes, men need to act normally around the female species, but it's about bloody time females need to realise they aren't innocent.


I see it the same way as in Holland, gay rights have been working for equal rights and treatment for years. And rightfully so! Yet what happens next? Gay only sport clubs, cinemas, disco's, bars etc, why? To keep out non gay people. In essence destroying everything they fight for.
Women keep fighting for equal rights in games, yet constantly have to focus our attention on the fact they are female and have to create guilds, sites, forums only for females etc.

[Crawford]

I don't doubt for a minute that game streamers will have the same type of developement as reality t.v. had from when it was created till now. It starts out with decent programming and noble ideas, but it gets hijacked soon enough by others with less savoury ideas. In the end it has a wide array of different "flavours" where some concentrate on high end, informative gaming, and some are just in it for personal promotion, while playing games on the side. And this is all down to the companies delivering the streams to the public deciding on what they will allow. If they feel personal promotion while playing games on the side is o.k. cause it brings in more viewers and thus advertisments then that's what they'll allow.

I also don't doubt for a second that this kind of live streaming will start going beyond pure pay per view sex streams and pure game streams and will go on to people creating streams where they just do what ever the hell they like and people watch them and pay them cause they find it interesting. All it takes is a streaming company like Twitch or Justin.tv to decide that they will support such things because it's good business for them. I don't think we're all the way there yet though, sex is still a big no-no so far.

My view on streaming is this: Anyone who is not a proficient gamer who streams on a game-streaming site deserves to be trolled.

If you're streaming your leveling or your daily quests, even if you are not streaming your webcam and nobody's watching you, it's ten times funnier to gank you. If you're doing your daily quests and you have an audience, it's a hundred times funnier to gank you. And if you're streaming your webcam so I can see you react to getting ganked in real time, I will probably never stop finding it funny to camp your corpse.

It's so easy to see boobs on the Internet. I really think the Twitch streamers are offering something else. I think people want attention. These streamer girls are never super-hot. They could never get 20 dudes to pay attention to them in other contexts, and that's probably what they're looking for.

The dudes are a little more baffling. If you want to find a girl to talk to on the Internet, why not go on an online dating site. Even if you're socially defective or physically repulsive, you can find some companionship if you slash your standards far enough. That makes me suspect that the gifters and the viewers of twitch feeds are probably grossly age-inappropriate for these girls.

[Deleted]

The problem is the behaviour some of the many "girl gamers" that encourage such behavior.

I honestly have never attempted nor noted this phenomenon, so I don't know what you are talking about.

If we're talking about a 15 y.o. girl who receives a nice pet and says thank you, after which our predator asks her for naked pictures then it is him to blame, not her. If a woman gets raped in Indian society it is according to some conservatives the woman who is to blame but in Europe and America this notion is pathetic! If it is a mutual transaction (which is NOT a gift) then its both to blame unless we have minors involved.

And really, what is wrong with a woman using her fame to get further? When a man does it, its normal, but when Felicia Day does it you get jelly.

[Deleted]

I can't confirm any reciprocal anything from the women I encountered in cities who received pets as gifts. But I am not inclined to blame the women for this, although I do think it is funny when somebody corpse-camps a twitch streamer on a PvP server.

There are some who indeed do sell certain favours for ingame stuff. I remember some girl advertising herself on the trade chat for skype cam against gold. Personally I was like "Wtf, are you people serious"? The sad part is these girls do taint how the majority is viewed by male players.

I'm not going to lie I've seen female control and destroy entire guilds. It shocking how one female can control score of men like nothing on wow.

Seen something similar, the people getting manipulated in that way are usually very, very, very poor souls who desperately want contact to the other gender and are often willing to do a lot for it. We had one of the top European progress guilds on my server and it all went down when the guild leader got his first girlfriend ever in his mid twenties.



On topic. I recently brought a good friend of mine to World of Warcraft, I gifted her the game and so far we play 95% of the time she's playing together as she's fairly new. I'm guilty of having gifted her some pets such as the Tol Barad Fox Kit because I had three of those (avid PvPer, lots of Tol Barad thingies and nothing to spend them on), does that mean I'm also a creeper now?

I honestly have never attempted nor noted this phenomenon, so I don't know what you are talking about.

If we're talking about a 15 y.o. girl who receives a nice pet and says thank you, after which our predator asks her for naked pictures then it is him to blame, not her. If a woman gets raped in Indian society it is according to some conservatives the woman who is to blame but in Europe and America this notion is pathetic! If it is a mutual transaction (which is NOT a gift) then its both to blame unless we have minors involved.

And really, what is wrong with a woman using her fame to get further? When a man does it, its normal, but when Felicia Day does it you get jelly.

There are different cases. There's the people coming out of nowhere trying to curry favours by handing out gifts and then there's the other side of girl gamers trying to get an advantage out of being female and often going to extreme lenghts in what they are willing to do so. The problem is the second case makes people think the first case is acceptable and okay in general and that MOST girls are like that.

[Deleted]

No, it's both sides.Without the other there would not be the other, don't make this "evil women ruin it for the men." Being an idiot is not a gender-specific feature.

This, basically.

In general:
- Men like to hunt for women.
- Women like to be hunted - even if they don't actually want to be caught.

People from both sexes play the game, but some play it better than others.

And sometimes people do stupid things: Women who send nude pictures to boyfriends who turn around and post them online, men who pay a lot of money in the false expectation that it will get them something.

I've seen people from both sexes do things they regretted afterwards. No reason to believe one gender does more stupid things than the other.

[Beebeey]

Just going to post this for the lols.

[SherbertLand]

well.. i personaly think that they are sluts..

You don't even know them. Don't be so quick to judge.

[SirMeo]

On topic. I recently brought a good friend of mine to World of Warcraft, I gifted her the game and so far we play 95% of the time she's playing together as she's fairly new. I'm guilty of having gifted her some pets such as the Tol Barad Fox Kit because I had three of those (avid PvPer, lots of Tol Barad thingies and nothing to spend them on), does that mean I'm also a creeper now?

No, I quite frequently gift things to my friends, especially if they're new to the game to make them feel more home and welcomed to the game.

But I guess you knew this already and just wanted to bring a "well not always" point of view :P

I see it the same way as in Holland, gay rights have been working for equal rights and treatment for years. And rightfully so! Yet what happens next? Gay only sport clubs, cinemas, disco's, bars etc, why? To keep out non gay people. In essence destroying everything they fight for.
Women keep fighting for equal rights in games, yet constantly have to focus our attention on the fact they are female and have to create guilds, sites, forums only for females etc.

Well, I'm not a fan of gender-specific clubs or guilds but really, if they're done because you want some people who you know you will have some connection with (country, sex, sexual orientantion) and not because EW MEN ARE SMELLY AND GROSS MISANDRY4LYEF I see no real problem

And as with gay clubs and bars...
It just is easier to hit on someone if there's a high chance they're not heterosexual and reject you because of that you know.

[lanerios]

@Kari,

I fully agree with you. But when (let's take the LJ group for example) literally says "All males will hit on you and try to get in your pants in any MMO" Then something is wrong.

[Rorke]

They should just lock this thread now. Its already been derailed to its inevitable gender vs gender state.

[Deleted]

[...]

The dudes are a little more baffling. If you want to find a girl to talk to on the Internet, why not go on an online dating site. Even if you're socially defective or physically repulsive, you can find some companionship if you slash your standards far enough. That makes me suspect that the gifters and the viewers of twitch feeds are probably grossly age-inappropriate for these girls.

Social networking sites are sometimes half dating sites. Its just backwards to look for anything, including a date, on the Internet which works out better physically, unless its local Internet. That's why entire cultures are on different social networks, like Russia on VK. Looking for a LDR is plain backwards and in general people (regardless of gender) aren't looking for a date internationally, it just complicates the hell out of everything, and costs a lot of time and money. Your prince or princess is much easier to be found in the physical world. But you know good relationships don't start by planning it all out beforehand...

The cybersex stuff is all just to vent off steam from RL. If it happens, it is nothing serious.

[Rainmunin]

I see this happen quite often, though I am not that way I know people who are. I see the girls that sit there and correct people when someone says "dude" as a generalization, or some such. "Hee, I'm not a dude silly!" and it really drives me nuts most of the time. But I can understand it - when it's an underage girl doing it, but then there's the guys that ARN'T underage flirting with them and what not, it's very wrong and the underage girls really don't know what they're getting into.. Or maybe they do? Who really knows, but it's still a type of predator behavior. I have a friend who has gotten almost every mount/pet, and a lot of the more harder to get ones were gifts. She doesn't ask for them, she just mentions wanting them to certain people and low and behold, it's a gift.

Someone else in the thread mentioned people just wanting equal rights, and yeah almost every time it's abused. Not just with gender, or sexuality, but race too, which in some cases can be even worse. I'm not going to go there about it, since it's off-topic and I don't know how well received it would be here. Just wanted to add in on there, people that take advantage and do things like that really makes me mad.