Sen. Paul Introduces Audit the Fed Bill

[Buckwald]

/yawn. That isn't what a filibuster is anymore, and again, we are all waiting, patiently, for you to show us that fillibuster numbers by party lines are anywhere near equal.

Im sorry, I'm not doing your work for you. I wasn't the one who brought it up, proof of burden is on you, my friend.

[obdigore]

Im sorry, I'm not doing your work for you. I wasn't the one who brought it up, proof of burden is on you, my friend.

You are the one who claimed that the use was equal. Support your clams or retract them.

[Buckwald]

And besides, filibuster had NOTHING to do with the original conversation.

---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 11:04 PM ----------

You are the one who claimed that the use was equal. Support your clams or retract them.

Where did I say it was equal?

[Dillon]

U.S. Senator Rand Paul (R-KY) has reintroduced the "audit the Fed bill"

Below is the link to the legislation:
http://paul.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=694

There is no legitimate excuse for the Federal Reserve to operate in secrecy and with complete autonomy.

[Hiricine]

No, it wouldn't. People don't make products or improve products no one is going to buy.

You're right but you missed a factor. If the same goods are cheaper people will buy them. Steam sales are a good example of that, and lower interest rates/fed policy create monetary inflation that increases prices.

We have EVERY reason to invest right now. That's what you do when you are uncertain about the economy; you put more into the bank. There is a massive enormous global pool of money searching for places to put it right now. It's a large part of the reason CDOs became so big in the 2000s. Creditors both foreign and domestic and searching eagerly for a safe place to put their money that will get them a better rate of interest than US treasuries. On top of that, the lowest tax rates right now are on investment incomes. The whole concept that there's no impetus for investment right now is ludicrous.

You're also half right on this. The fed's wild money printing has basically created a market where you can profit simply by buying goods, holding onto them, and waiting for the price to go up. Gold, Oil, Land, etc. Sure people are investing money, but not in capital goods, simply in stores of value and speculation. Its basically a net 0 for an economy. While investment incomes do have a lower tax rate, with low interest rates its difficult to make any kind of return on investment, so its the flip side of the same coin. The US could easily start working up productivity if it wasn't for stifling taxes and regulation that make it much more difficult for a business to be successful.

No, it's not. Saving and consuming are BOTH integral parts of an economy. Saving is important because it allows access to capital. Consumption is important because it gives businesses a reason to use that capital.

We don't have anything of value to contribute? We're the world's second largest manufacturer for goodness sake. We have some of the biggest and best firms in the world in the US. Saying we don't have anything of value to contribute just confirms that you are completely out of touch with our economy.

While consumption does serve as a vehicle for production, it doesn't require a nation to produce for its own citizens to benefit from consumption. China has made a fortune selling goods to the US, though currency manipulation is often blamed here. However, once China realizes its goods are more benefiical in the hands of its own people instead of paper we send them, we'll find that almost everything we use its much more expensive.

While we are a large manufacturer in the absolute sense, our trade deficit goes to show that our consumption vastly outpaces our production. The trade deficit can only exist as long as other countries value the money we send them, which we happily print, devaluing the money we send them while getting more of their products. Obviously to say we don't have anything of value to contribute is a bit of hyperbole, but to look at what we make versus what we consume and not realize that we're digging our own grave is to fail to understand the problem we face.

[obdigore]

Where did I say it was equal?

When you replied to wells' statement that the levels of obstructionism wasn't comparable.

honestly, Wells, I could (and should) show you the links, but knowing how you are it wouldn't matter. Let's just say that in all of your "knowledge" you have, you really don't know.

also, only the Senate can filibuster. Which no one has done (in this or the prior congress) and no one will veto.

You offered to 'show the links'. We are all patiently waiting for these lovely links that will prove that only you have the 'knowledge' you seem to be suggesting. As I said, support your claims or retract them.

[Buckwald]

Guy, my claim was that both sides block appointments. Which is a common known fact. I never used the words filibuster or equal. I said both sides block. Dems blocked a good amount during Bush's term. It's not a hidden fact. It's like saying 2+2=4.

[obdigore]

Guy, my claim was that both sides block appointments. Which is a common known fact. I never used the words filibuster or equal. I said both sides block. Dems blocked a good amount during Bush's term. It's not a hidden fact. It's like saying 2+2=4.

You literally can't remember what you posted a page ago, or what you were responding to. If you are going to be this intellectually dishonest, there is no reason to discuss anything with you.

[oblivionx]

So is Rand Paul's bill being filibustered?

[Buckwald]

You literally can't remember what you posted a page ago, or what you were responding to. If you are going to be this intellectually dishonest, there is no reason to discuss anything with you.

Now you're just grasping at straws. Look at my quote

I hope you're referring to both sides. Because it's clear both sides do it. If you can't agree with that, then I have no more words for you on this subject.

That was in response to:

So they're crippling government to make a political point. Would that be that government doesn't work?

The entire topic of conversation was Wells saying that the GOP blocks appoints and asked why. I said "Both sides do it and they do it for political power". He told me to show links of how dems block appointments. You jumped into a conversation.

I never brought up filibuster. I never said they were used equally. You said if the Democrats have power why would they use it. I told you any senator can. That's my extent of the filibuster topic. Wells never asked for proof of how they were used equally. I suggest you go back to page 1 and begin reading.

[obdigore]

Now you're just grasping at straws. Look at my quote

That was in response to:


The entire topic of conversation was Wells saying that the GOP blocks appoints and asked why. I said "Both sides do it and they do it for political power". He told me to show links of how dems block appointments. You jumped into a conversation.

I never brought up filibuster. I never said they were used equally. You said if the Senate has power why would they use it. I told you any senator can. That's my extent of the filibuster topic. Wells never asked for proof of how they were used equally. I suggest you go back to page 1 and begin reading.

You mentioned Filibuster, and were responding to a point on filibuster. You don't get to just ignore half the conversation because you can't prove what you said you could.

[Hiricine]

Here you go:

To be fair, democrats also attempt to pass more legislation. The Democrats didn't have as many targets to hit. Also in this chart, there are two Democrat presidents represented with one Republican represented, and the Republicans filibustered while their own president was sitting 210 times, while the Democrats filibustered their own only 151 times. Finally, The Republicans only had control of the Senate for a small fraction of this time period, and as such, obviously didn't need to filibuster themselves.

[Buckwald]

You mentioned Filibuster, and were responding to a point on filibuster. You don't get to just ignore half the conversation because you can't prove what you said you could.

The argument posed to me was about blocking appointments. Not filibusters. He used Filibuster as one way to block something. Never ONCE did I say anything was equal. Just that both sides do it. PLEASE understand that.

[obdigore]

To be fair, democrats also attempt to pass more legislation. The Democrats didn't have as many targets to hit. Also in this chart, there are two Democrat presidents represented with one Republican represented, and the Republicans filibustered while their own president was sitting 210 times, while the Democrats filibustered their own only 151 times. Finally, The Republicans only had control of the Senate for a small fraction of this time period, and as such, obviously didn't need to filibuster themselves.

10 years to 12 years doesn't account for the 239 extra filibusters.

[Kivimetsan]

Oh god, the last thing we need is Congressional Oversight of monetary policy.

You do know the FED is a bad thing for you right? Every time they lower the interest rate or leave it low, they're devaluing YOUR money.
Also people who know nothing about the relevance of an audit or how important it really is, need to go watch some old Ron Paul clips or read some Austrian Economics papers.

[obdigore]

The argument posed to me was about blocking appointments. Not filibusters. He used Filibuster as one way to block something. Never ONCE did I say anything was equal. Just that both sides do it. PLEASE understand that.

Here is what Wells said:

I don't think you can honestly compare the GOP's efforts to stop government from doing anything to the Dem's use of the filibuster.

Do both sides block stuff? Sure. Do they do it anywhere near the same amount? ha.

And then this is your response.

honestly, Wells, I could (and should) show you the links, but knowing how you are it wouldn't matter. Let's just say that in all of your "knowledge" you have, you really don't know.

also, only the Senate can filibuster. Which no one has done (in this or the prior congress) and no one will veto.

Where are these links that show the Dems block legislation or appointments anywhere near the rate the GOP does? After all these posts, we are all still patiently waiting for you to prove your point.

---------- Post added 2013-02-06 at 12:25 AM ----------

You do know the FED is a bad thing for you right? Every time they lower the interest rate or leave it low, they're devaluing YOUR money.
Also people who know nothing about the relevance of an audit or how important it really is, need to go watch some old Ron Paul clips or read some Austrian Economics papers.

Yes because a religious racist and a discredited economic school are GREAT places to pull our internal and monetary policies from.

[Kasierith]

You do know the FED is a bad thing for you right? Every time they lower the interest rate or leave it low, they're devaluing YOUR money.
Also people who know nothing about the relevance of an audit or how important it really is, need to go watch some old Ron Paul clips or read some Austrian Economics papers.

The FED is far more complex than you make it out to be, and their use of monetary policy involves quite a bit more than that. That said, if you really have faith in Austrian economics I don't really see us coming to an agreement on economic matters.

[Buckwald]

After all these posts, we are all still patiently waiting for you to prove your point.

List of stalled, blocked or filibustered nominees

    United States Court of Appeals for the First Circuit
        Rhode Island seat vacated by Bruce M. Selya - William E. Smith (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee O. Rogeriee Thompson)

    United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit
        New York seat vacated by John M. Walker, Jr. - Debra Ann Livingston (Livingston was nominated by President Bush in June 2006 but not allowed to be confirmed by Senate Democrats until May 2007)
        New York seat vacated by Chester J. Straub - Loretta A. Preska (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Gerard E. Lynch)

    United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit
        New Jersey seat vacated by Samuel Alito - Shalom D. Stone (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Joseph A. Greenaway, Jr.)
        Pennsylvania seat vacated by Franklin Stuart Van Antwerpen - Gene E. K. Pratter, followed by Paul S. Diamond (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Thomas I. Vanaskie)

    United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit
        Maryland seat vacated by Francis D. Murnaghan, Jr. - Claude Allen, followed by Rod J. Rosenstein (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Andre M. Davis)
        North Carolina seat vacated by James Dickson Phillips, Jr. - Terrence Boyle, followed by Robert J. Conrad (Boyle was nominated by President Bush in May 2001. After waiting six years, President Bush withdrew his nomination January 2007, making this 2001-2007 nomination the longest court of appeals nomination never processed by the Senate; Robert Conrad was nominated July 2007, but the Senate Democrats refused to process his nomination during the Democratic 110th Congress; judgeship later filled by Obama nominee James A. Wynn, Jr.)
        South Carolina seat vacated by William Walter Wilkins - Steve A. Matthews (judgeship later filled by North Carolina Obama nominee Albert Diaz)
        Virginia seat vacated by H. Emory Widener - William J. Haynes, II, followed by E. Duncan Getchell, followed by Glen E. Conrad (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Barbara Milano Keenan)

    United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit
        Mississippi seat, converted from a Louisiana seat vacated by Henry Anthony Politz - Charles W. Pickering, followed by Michael B. Wallace, followed by Leslie H. Southwick (Pickering was filibustered by Senate Democrats and eventually withdrew his nomination; there was so much Democratic resistance to Wallace's nomination that it too was withdrawn; and Southwick was only confirmed due to the efforts of Democratic senator Dianne Feinstein)
        Texas seat vacated by William Lockhart Garwood - Priscilla Owen (Owen was filibustered by Senate Democrats and only allowed to be confirmed under the terms of the Gang of 14 Deal)

    United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit
        Michigan seat vacated by James L. Ryan - Henry Saad, followed by Raymond Kethledge (Saad was filibustered by Senate Democrats; Kethledge was only confirmed after a deal in which failed Clinton nominee Helene White was allowed to replace Bush nominee Stephen J. Murphy III as a Sixth Circuit nominee)
        Michigan seat vacated by Richard Suhrheinrich - David W. McKeague (McKeague was filibustered by Senate Democrats and only allowed to be confirmed under the terms of the Gang of 14 Deal)
        Michigan seat vacated by Damon Keith - Richard Allen Griffin (Griffin was filibustered by Senate Democrats and only allowed to be confirmed under the terms of the Gang of 14 Deal)
        Michigan seat vacated by Cornelia Groefsema Kennedy - Susan Bieke Neilson, followed by Stephen J. Murphy III, followed by failed Clinton nominee Helene White (Neilson was only confirmed three months prior to her death after a four year battle over her nomination; Murphy's nomination was replaced by that of failed Clinton nominee Helene White at the behest of Democratic Michigan senator Carl Levin)
        Ohio seat vacated by David Aldrich Nelson - Jeffrey S. Sutton (Senate Democrats refused to process his nomination during the Democratic 107th Congress and he was only confirmed once Republicans assumed control of the house in 2003)
        Ohio seat vacated by Alan Norris - Deborah L. Cook (Senate Democrats refused to process her nomination during the Democratic 107th Congress and she was only confirmed once Republicans assumed control of the house in 2003)

    United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit
        Indiana seat vacated by Kenneth F. Ripple - Philip P. Simon (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee David Hamilton)

    United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit
        California seat vacated by James R. Browning - Carolyn Kuhl (Kuhl was filibustered by Senate Democrats and eventually withdrew her nomination; judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Sandra Segal Ikuta)
        California seat vacated by Stephen S. Trott - N. Randy Smith (judgeship still open; Smith was later confirmed to the Ninth Circuit when he was renominated for an Idaho seat)
        Idaho seat vacated by Thomas G. Nelson - William Gerry Myers III (Myers was filibustered by Senate Democrats; judgeship later filled by Bush nominee N. Randy Smith)

    United States Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit
        Oklahoma seat vacated by Stephanie Kulp Seymour - James H. Payne, followed by Jerome A. Holmes (Payne withdrew his nomination after allegations made by liberal organizations created the appearance of "extraordinary circumstances" which would not have allowed his confirmation under the terms of the Gang of 14 Deal; judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Jerome A. Holmes)

    United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit
        Alabama seat vacated by Emmett Ripley Cox - William H. Steele, followed by William H. Pryor (Senate Democrats refused to process Steele's nomination during the Democratic 107th Congress and his nomination was withdrawn; Pryor was filibustered by Senate Democrats and was only allowed to be confirmed under the terms of the Gang of 14 Deal)

    United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia
        Miguel Estrada, to seat vacated by Patricia Wald (Estrada was nominated May 2001, but was filibustered by Senate Democrats and withdrew his nomination after waiting over two years in September 2003; judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Thomas B. Griffith, who was only allowed to be confirmed under the terms of the Gang of 14 Deal)
        John Roberts, to seat vacated by James L. Buckley (Senate Democrats refused to process his nomination during the Democratic 107th Congress and he was only confirmed once Republicans assumed control of the Senate in 2003)
        Janice Rogers Brown, to seat vacated by Stephen F. Williams (Brown was filibustered by Senate Democrats and was only allowed to be confirmed under the terms of the Gang of 14 Deal)
        Brett Kavanaugh, to seat vacated by Laurence Silberman (Kavanaugh was initially stalled by Senate Democrats and was only allowed to be confirmed under the terms of the Gang of 14 Deal)
        Peter Keisler, to seat vacated by John Roberts (President Bush nominated him June 2006, but Senate Democrats refused to process his nomination during the 109th and Democratic 110th Congress; judgeship still open)

Failed district court nominees
The failed Bush district court nominees:

    United States District Court for the District of Rhode Island
        Lincoln D. Almond (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee John J. McConnell, Jr.)

    United States District Court for the Northern District of New York
        Mary Donohue, followed by Thomas Marcelle (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Mae D'Agostino)

    United States District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania
        Carolyn P. Short (judgeship was to become vacant when Judge Gene E. K. Pratter was elevated to the United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit but Pratter was forced to withdraw due to Democratic opposition and was replaced by Judge Paul S. Diamond.)
        Carolyn P. Short (judgeship was to become vacant when Judge Paul S. Diamond was elevated to the United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit but Diamond never was confirmed to that post before Bush's presidency ended.)

    United States District Court for the District of Delaware
        Colm F. Connolly (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Leonard Stark)

    United States District Court for the Eastern District of North Carolina
        Thomas Alvin Farr (judgeship still open)

    United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia
        David J. Novak (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee John A. Gibney, Jr.)

    United States District Court for the Northern District of West Virginia
        William J. Powell (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Gina Marie Groh)

    United States District Court for the Middle District of Louisiana
        David R. Dugas (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Brian Anthony Jackson)

    United States District Court for the Southern District of Mississippi
        J. Richard Barry (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Carlton W. Reeves)

    United States District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan
        Daniel P. Ryan (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Stephen Joseph Murphy III)

    United States District Court for the Middle District of Tennessee
        Gustavus Adolphus Puryear (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Kevin Hunter Sharp)

    United States District Court for the Northern District of Illinois
        John J. Tharp (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Sharon J. Coleman) (Nominated by Barack Obama on November 10, 2011 to a different seat on the Northern District and confirmed on May 14, 2012)

    United States District Court for the Eastern District of Wisconsin
        Timothy G. Dugan (judgeship vacancy became moot when Judge Rudolph T. Randa decided not to retire in January 2009)

    United States District Court for the Western District of Wisconsin
        J. Mac Davis (judgeship still open)

    United States District Court for the Central District of California
        James Edward Rogan (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Jacqueline H. Nguyen)

    United States District Court for the District of Hawaii
        Frederick W. Rohlfing III (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee J. Michael Seabright)

    United States District Court for the District of Oregon
        Marco A. Hernandez (Nominated by Barack Obama on July 14, 2010 to the same position and confirmed on February 7, 2011)[25]

    United States District Court for the District of Colorado
        Gregory E. Goldberg (judgeship still open)

    United States District Court for the District of Wyoming
        Richard H. Honaker (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Nancy D. Freudenthal)

    United States District Court for the Middle District of Florida
        William F. Jung (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Charlene Edwards Honeywell)

    United States District Court for the District of Columbia
        Jeffrey Adam Rosen (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee James E. Boasberg)
        Michael E. O'Neill (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Amy Berman Jackson)

This is just the Bush years. Enjoy your bedtime reading. Also, this is way off topic, so let's get back to it.

[Wells]

I don't see how that list equates what the dems did to what the GOP is doing.

In fact numbers have already been provided showing just how disproportionate the gap is. I think at this point its pretty obvious that the GOP breaks government so they can run on government being broken.

[Linkedblade]

Oh god, the last thing we need is Congressional Oversight of monetary policy.

Well the constitution dictates that the monetary policy of the government is that of Congress. The monetary policy of everyone else (private sector) should be left to the private sector. In this case Congress in 1913 gave the power of federal monetary policy to a private institution the Federal Reserve. Wherein is the problem. There is no competition between banks. No competitive currencies. (Hardly interest rates.) The Fed overprints currency and this causes inflation to go mad. Not only that, but most of the US wealth is in other nations now. What the hell are they doing?

Basically, we need to destory the Federal Reserve. Allow the government to manage it's own policy and leave the free market to the people.