Disc Vs Holy 5.2

[Xs]

2: The fight in the realm is not really about getting out fast.... Its about using the time in the realm untill the very last second. But i bet you knew this.

Its about getting in and out with enough mana regen to last till the next one, staying in there till max is just gonna require extra healers which no buff is going to outweigh

[HPLathus]

FYI almighty overpriest

2 points here:

1: No they cant get them out faster. Penance + flash heal tops people as fast as anything a holy priest can throw.

2: The fight in the realm is not really about getting out fast.... Its about using the time in the realm untill the very last second. But i bet you knew this.

1) Healers don't need to stay down for a super long time, esp if the healer above is really stressed.

2) Yes holy priests CAN heal them faster, Chakra: Serenity... Binding heal, 25% more healing done then any disc priest could do as well as an instant cast heal that can crit over 100k.

3) Penance + flash heal is 2x slower then what a binding heal + flash heal could do as a holy priest.

[Arainie]

It's a shame you can't understand what I am saying.


It's a known fact, either spec is viable. They are viable on different fights moreso then the other.


On heroic empress, theres a lot of burst aoe damage, so you would be disc.

Heroic Garalon, there is more consistant aoe damage so you would play holy.


I don't understand what is irritating about pointing out that each spec works differently depending on the fight, and neither is better then the other.

What are you smoking?
In a 25 man cutting edge guild (heroic modes) you will play disc on EVERY fight except for Tsulong if you want to reach max efficency. You will do this especially on Garalon where disc performs roughly 15% better than holy (Holy vs Disc). It's not a matter of opinion if you want to be at your best, a priest who is more or less equally good with disc and holy will always perform better with disc on said fights due to spirit shell. If you don't believe me worldoflogs clearly supports my thesis with fact.

Come 5.2 I expect holy to catch up a lot due to all the disc nerfs, but we're yet to see with the 25 man raid testing. I have a feeling that Disc will still perform rather well in 10m but that the reduced cost on PW:S won't be enough to make up for the massive absorption nerfs in 25m.

[Skadovsk]

What are you smoking?
In a 25 man cutting edge guild (heroic modes) you will play disc on EVERY fight except for Tsulong if you want to reach max efficency. You will do this especially on Garalon where disc performs roughly 15% better than holy (Holy vs Disc). It's not a matter of opinion if you want to be at your best, a priest who is more or less equally good with disc and holy will always perform better with disc on said fights due to spirit shell. If you don't believe me worldoflogs clearly supports my thesis with fact.

Come 5.2 I expect holy to catch up a lot due to all the disc nerfs, but we're yet to see with the 25 man raid testing. I have a feeling that Disc will still perform rather well in 10m but that the reduced cost on PW:S won't be enough to make up for the massive absorption nerfs in 25m.

Let him hold his raid back with the pro holy heals and continue calling autistic /threads all over the forums, he will go away at some point, they all do.
its obvious he has some strange hipster boner for holy, strong enough to hurt his progression, I don't know why... maybe because he wants to feel unique, maybe he wants to rank high, hell maybe he just doesn't like to learn fights to shield ahead of time, all that is on him.

Just take everything he says with a grain of salt.



And bout the specs, I honestly think disc will perform even better on 10 mans, even better than on live. (kind of funny)
and I just have no idea how we will heal intense raid damage when SS is on CD, it does sound like holy will be the 25 man winner, but since there's just way too many 10 mans, disc will continue to be the dominant spec for the community.
Of course all this changes from fight to fight, but I think that will be the general overview.

[HPLathus]

im 16/16H on 2 characters, 1 of them being my priest and although both specs are completely viable on any fight, disc is better IMO from all the fights ive healed as both specs. bringing a disc priest aside from the bubbles and absorbs, is the dps. no the dps dont "need to step it up". some fights, garajal during progression, heroic sha and other enrage tight fights, disc would be the winner because it can do 50k dps. the time for pure healer is gone, now if you heal, you also have to dps during any downtime you have when healing. thats what separates the good healers from the sub-par ones. just because youre a healer, does not mean that you just sit there when you have nothing to heal, now you have to dps.

Again, I am not saying that disc should never be smiting for extra dps. Not once did i say that, but it should not be the 1 and only key reason you bring a disc priest to a fight.

---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 06:50 PM ----------

Because every guild in this game is *25 man cutting edge and shooting for world first* amirite, oh wait, actually 70% of raiding guilds are actually 10 man right now and not even *cutting edge* because it's a game and they just want to play content.


It's interesting that I have talked to/watched top 20 US priests as holy, clearing content(progression) as holy in 10/25 man without a disc priest perfectly fine. People can sit here and say "Disc is the best healing spec for progression" blah blah, but that's just a preference that they hold in their own heads.


In fact, there is a priest on THESE forums that will agree with me.

Mazi, she is on the same server as me in "Refined" They are a fantastic guild, and she has cleared the majority of the content as holy. She comes on the forums all the time saying the exact same things I say.

On a night that our monk healer was gone, we brought in a 12/16 heroic progressed disc priest to heroic blade lord. 500 Ilvl, I was 492. I was holy, he was disc.

He couldn't even stack spirit shell on the raid before unseen strikes and was consistantly causing us to wipe because of what a bad disc priest he was. How he managed to get 12/16 heroic content is beyond me.

The argument "I am 16/16 heroic so I know more then you" is invalid, because I see priests get carried in heroic guilds all the time yet people keep them simply because of the stigma "Disc is required and OP regardless of how bad the player is"


Going around these forums calling autistic /threads you say?

The ONE post I did that in, please spare me the sorrow of your over exaggeration.

[phyx]

Again, I am not saying that disc should never be smiting for extra dps. Not once did i say that, but it should not be the 1 and only key reason you bring a disc priest to a fight.

---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 06:50 PM ----------

Because every guild in this game is *25 man cutting edge and shooting for world first* amirite, oh wait, actually 70% of raiding guilds are actually 10 man right now.


It's interesting that I have talked to/watched top 20 US priests as holy, clearing content(progression) as holy in 10/25 man without a disc priest perfectly fine. People can sit here and say "Disc is the best healing spec for progression" blah blah, but that's just a preference that they hold in their own heads.


In fact, there is a priest on THESE forums that will agree with me.

Mazi, she is on the same server as me in "Refined" They are a fantastic guild, and she has cleared the majority of the content as holy. She comes on the forums all the time saying the exact same things I say.

On a night that our monk healer was gone, we brought in a 12/16 heroic progressed disc priest to heroic blade lord. 500 Ilvl, I was 492. I was holy, he was disc.

He couldn't even stack spirit shell on the raid before unseen strikes and was consistantly causing us to wipe because of what a bad disc priest he was. How he managed to get 12/16 heroic content is beyond me.

The argument "I am 16/16 heroic so I know more then you" is invalid, because I see priests get carried in heroic guilds all the time yet people keep them simply because of the stigma "Disc is required and OP regardless of how bad the player is"


Going around these forums calling autistic /threads you say?

The ONE post I did that in, please spare me the sorrow of your over exaggeration.

I find it interesting how no one mentioned the fact that any healer can do a job of an holy priest, but absorbs can exclusively be done by a disc. So what's more viable? I would say Discipline by far because in his current state, if you are not bringing disc(s) you are just hurting the raid.

[HPLathus]

I find it interesting how no one mentioned the fact that any healer can do a job of an holy priest, but absorbs can exclusively be done by a disc. So what's more viable? I would say Discipline by far because in his current state, if you are not bringing disc(s) you are just hurting the raid.

If done right, holy actually has one of the TOP raw HPS/HPM outputs out of any class.

[Copulatingduck]

Again, I am not saying that disc should never be smiting for extra dps. Not once did i say that, but it should not be the 1 and only key reason you bring a disc priest to a fight.

---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 06:50 PM ----------

Because every guild in this game is *25 man cutting edge and shooting for world first* amirite, oh wait, actually 70% of raiding guilds are actually 10 man right now and not even *cutting edge* because it's a game and they just want to play content.


It's interesting that I have talked to/watched top 20 US priests as holy, clearing content(progression) as holy in 10/25 man without a disc priest perfectly fine. People can sit here and say "Disc is the best healing spec for progression" blah blah, but that's just a preference that they hold in their own heads.


In fact, there is a priest on THESE forums that will agree with me.

Here's what I want to know. For someone who comes off as such a big proponent of holy, there is a decided lack of playing holy in your progression. You didn't go holy for either of your Garajal kills, nor have you gone disc for your kills of Spirit Kings, Elegon, Will of the Emperor, or Blade Lord Tayak. And you were disc for Imperial Vizier Zorlok attempts. You don't even stay holy for Sha of Fear normal.

Now, I myself enjoy holy quite a bit, but I also don't spout off about how holy is every bit as capable as disc for *progression* either. You really oughta practice what you preach, or just stop preaching bud.

e: You really don't need to 3-heal Elite Protectors btw.

[Amnesti]

Disc is stronger than Holy by almost every margin this tier, there's no refuting that. I don't know what you're trying to prove at this point, but the discussion was never about whether or not holy is viable.

[ramennoodleking]

1) This topic is brought up every other day, the same thing is always said. Both specs are viable, neither is better then the other but they hold different strengths in different situations. It gets old having the same argument with priests like YOU, who think they hold authority over what people can and cannot say on this forum. Are you a mod? No, are you absolutely wonderful at harassing other priests on these forums? Yes, is that a bannable offence. yes. I come into threads, and I post my opinion, it's YOU who comes in trolling/flaming acting like you are god.

I think you have a skewed perception as to what other people say and you are the only one here that is being narrow minded on this topic.

Actually if you read anything I typed you will see I am reiterating the consensus, I was merely calling you out for the way you talk down to others as if you are an authority on priests, someone's opinion we need to revere. You are not. I'm not harassing, just explaining how your methods of posting don't do you any favors in this community.

2) I will continue to feel that bringing in a disc priest for the idea of a .5 healer is really not a smart choice, your healers either need to step it up or your DPS needs to step it up. No, a HEALING SPEC.. should not be brought in as a DPS. If it works on a VERY SPECIFIC fight, then you could be doing it, that doesn't mean it's viable on everything.

You are basing the "disc dps" idea on the fact that you used it on a single fight. That does not make it viable for ALL fights. Sure, for garajal it's wonderful because for the most part, the extra DPS is handy and the smart heal on the debuffed people is great.

One fight is just an example. However, since this is your first raiding tier as a priest, you seem to not understand the role of the .5 healer. Trust me, it's been used much longer than this tier, but again, you know it all, so continue to spew out your "knowledge. The .5 healer was also valuable on feng heroic, spirit kings, vizier, windlord, amber shaper, and shekzeer, and I used it on protectors till we saw we could do it with just two healers. When you get to those heroics let me know.

- Holy can actually perform the same amount of healing on the debuffed people via orenew/chakra:serenity/cascade.

- Holy can actually heal the people that go down into the shadow realm faster then a disc priest can, meaning that healer could also come out of the realm sooner to help the healer up top.

- The argument of regen can't be used on this fight simply because of the buff that gives you mana back in the shadow realm.

With that said, gara'jal is a perfect example of how both specs are on par on a fight where people think disc would be better.

You are absolutely clueless. I never said holy or disc was better, all I said was disc was a good choice for progression due to the added dps and aiding heals, since voodoo doll rng can suck. Read more, fire back less. I am a holy priest first and foremost, and have been for 4 expansions. Holy is a better healer for that fight. You are telling me nothin I don't already know, but I'm glad you are learning it for yourself. Congratulations.

But I forgot that I am closed minded to how the priest class works, my bad.

Yes, yes you are. I refer to your post history and that time you got utterly shut down in a thread from your severe lack of knowledge. I call you close minded because you stick to your guns so often, even if you are blatantly wrong.

3) When I make posts like I do? Because I post a strong opinion and its true, and people don't like it. So they come back trolling/flaming me like children thinking they hold authority over what I say.

The only thing I said that could have come accross nasty, was that if you are bringing in a disc priest for DPS then your raid is bad.

Do you know what trolling is? I don't think you do. I was calling you out for your ridiculous caps locked posts and obnoxiously typing /thread at the end of your posts.

Nothing else in my post was rude/degrading/flaming. You just felt that because I posted some key points in caps lock, that I was "mad" and "raging" and being "mean". Sir, it's called highlighting important parts of a post. I was pointing out the strengths of each spec and how they are vastly different from one another, thus rendering the argument "Which healing spec is BEST" null and void.

Because both are just as viable as the next, just in different ways.

No shit both are viable. Welcome to...cataclysm? Shit holy was fine even in heroic ICC up until LK. I was rolling holy on heroic neferian when disc was supposedly better single target heals, and while priesting was just a twinkle in your eye.

[HPLathus]

One fight is just an example. However, since this is your first raiding tier as a priest, you seem to not understand the role of the .5 healer. Trust me, it's been used much longer than this tier, but again, you know it all, so continue to spew out your "knowledge. The .5 healer was also valuable on feng heroic, spirit kings, vizier, windlord, amber shaper, and shekzeer, and I used it on protectors till we saw we could do it with just two healers. When you get to those heroics let me know.

First raiding tier as a priest? Are you kidding me? This is my like 12th tier as a priest...

Honey booboo... don't be so silly.

You are absolutely clueless. I never said holy or disc was better, all I said was disc was a good choice for progression due to the added dps and aiding heals, since voodoo doll rng can suck. Read more, fire back less. I am a holy priest first and foremost, and have been for 4 expansions. Holy is a better healer for that fight. You are telling me nothin I don't already know, but I'm glad you are learning it for yourself. Congratulations.

Again, flaming/rude posts are a bannable offence. You tell me I talk down to priests, honey boo boo.. look at what you do on these forums? You are one of the biggest flamers around the priest forums.

Yes, yes you are. I refer to your post history and that time you got utterly shut down in a thread from your severe lack of knowledge. I call you close minded because you stick to your guns so often, even if you are blatantly wrong.

CLosed minded = disc is the only choice for progression[you]

Open Minded = You can use both specs for fast progression, switching on certain fights between the two because one might perform better then the other. [me]

Do you know what trolling is? I don't think you do. I was calling you out for your ridiculous caps locked posts and obnoxiously typing /thread at the end of your posts.

Caps locked posts? How many times do I need to explain what dynamic typing is. Using caps lock to HIGHLIGHT KEY POINTS IN A POST SO PEOPLE NOTICE THEM MORE. To put EMPHASIS on something being said; IE "The cat was big" vs "The cat was BIG"

Caps lock does not mean rage/mad/angry/ect like you are trying to put out here.

No shit both are viable. Welcome to...cataclysm? Shit holy was fine even in heroic ICC up until LK. I was rolling holy on heroic neferian when disc was supposedly better single target heals, and while priesting was just a twinkle in your eye.

Ok, so you are proving everything I have been saying to be true. Why then are you telling me i am retarded for saying it when you JUST said it yourself?

[PhillieB]

No, wrong.


They heal differently, one is about mitigating damage one is about pure healing.



So they are different, and used in different forms.


/thread still

When you post like this you are coming off as arrogant even if you perhaps don't mean to, a little humility goes a long way. IMHO Anecdotal evidence is interesting if it comes from point of authority like Isheria.

[HPLathus]

Arrogant? Its a fact, they heal differently. One is about pure healing, one is about pure mitigation.

They are used in different situations different.y


How is that ignorant? It's truth/factual.

[PhillieB]

It might very well be truth / factual, now mind you I took this quote to exemplify, but what makes it arrogant is when you "/" to end the discussion and you portray your opinions as universal facts.

[HPLathus]

the /thread was not to be rude, people just right away take it that way.


The /thread was to say thats all that really needs to be said, because they are vastly different on different encounters and hard to really compare anymore. Esp with the disc nerfs.

It's funny when holy gets the same credibility as disc, or disc gets put on the same level as holy people go on rampages pretty much saying "HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT ABOUT DISC!"

It's really quite silly how riled up people get on these forums when someone posts a positive opinion on holy being on par with disc.

[ramennoodleking]

You are one of the most interesting people I've met on the priest forums, and we've had some characters. Never once did I state you "had" to progress as disc. I said that it was a strategy, and I was really only talking about atonement healing to begin with from my original post in this thread. I have been saying holy is viable if not better for years.

I'll leave this where it stands, enough people have reiterated in one form or another what I've said about your caustic posts. And as for the topic, there will always be a "better" spec per fight, but ultimately they will both be viable unless Blizzard does something drastic.

[HPLathus]

I'm an interesting person, what can I say.

[Nzete]

We are 5/6H, 3/6H, 4/4 normal in 10 man. We have had a few toon shake ups when our main tank quit the game. Pre-potting intellect for a bit extra dps is a real option for a couple seconds short on enrage due to a couple of undergeared characters. Damage is part of discipline's utility (much like a monk - although discipline has much more utility than a mistweaver).

I'm still trying to think though the discipline changes on the PTR. I'm hoping that they affect 25 man more than 10 man. Mastery is turning back into the "only PW:S and for anything that crits" which unless PW:S can be used much, much more than live, makes mastery scaling almost go away.

Holy will get more mileage out of the upcoming two set (as stated above). However, 10 man healing will probably still require switching between single target and aoe healing more than every 30 seconds. The Chakra "which foot do you want to shoot yourself in" will still be there in full force. (With the Chakra "bonus/penalty" getting higher over time, holy's lack of flexibility will contunue to be a problem - and more so in 10s than 25s).

[Skadovsk]

Some sarcasm ahead to repel cancer.

In fact, there is a priest on THESE forums that will agree with me.

Mazi, she is on the same server as me in "Refined" They are a fantastic guild, and she has cleared the majority of the content as holy. She comes on the forums all the time saying the exact same things I say.

On a night that our monk healer was gone, we brought in a 12/16 heroic progressed disc priest to heroic blade lord. 500 Ilvl, I was 492. I was holy, he was disc.

He couldn't even stack spirit shell on the raid before unseen strikes and was consistantly causing us to wipe because of what a bad disc priest he was. How he managed to get 12/16 heroic content is beyond me.

The argument "I am 16/16 heroic so I know more then you" is invalid, because I see priests get carried in heroic guilds all the time yet people keep them simply because of the stigma "Disc is required and OP regardless of how bad the player is"


Going around these forums calling autistic /threads you say?

The ONE post I did that in, please spare me the sorrow of your over exaggeration.

"GUIZ I FOUND SOMEONE THAT FOR ONCE AGREES WITH ME
Y- YO- YOU GO ASK HER, SHE ACTUALLY AGREED WITH ME!"

On a night that our monk healer was gone, we brought in a 12/16 heroic progressed disc priest to heroic blade lord. 500 Ilvl, I was 492. I was holy, he was disc.

He couldn't even stack spirit shell on the raid before unseen strikes and was consistantly causing us to wipe because of what a bad disc priest he was. How he managed to get 12/16 heroic content is beyond me.

Maybe because he used to play faceroll holy?
huehuehuehue

It's funny when holy gets the same credibility as disc, or disc gets put on the same level as holy people go on rampages pretty much saying "HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT ABOUT DISC!"

It's really quite silly how riled up people get on these forums when someone posts a positive opinion on holy being on par with disc.

See I can also talk shit bout a spec for no reason just to anger people even when I don't even believe it, like I did above.
But you're actually doing it while trying to hide it for the sake of looking different because you don't play FOTM like the other people.


/THREAD
The holy spec has given me full authorty in the priest forum.
Nobody is allowed to discus after this post because I've already said everything that needs to be said.
HURP

[HPLathus]

Some sarcasm ahead to repel cancer.



"GUIZ I FOUND SOMEONE THAT FOR ONCE AGREES WITH ME
Y- YO- YOU GO ASK HER, SHE ACTUALLY AGREED WITH ME!"



Maybe because he used to play faceroll holy?
huehuehuehue



See I can also talk shit bout a spec for no reason just to anger people even when I don't even believe it, like I did above.
But you're actually doing it while trying to hide it for the sake of looking different because you don't play FOTM like the other people.


/THREAD
The holy spec has given me full authorty in the priest forum.
Nobody is allowed to discus after this post because I've already said everything that needs to be said.
HURP

1/10

Nothing you said made any sense whatsoever.

---------- Post added 2013-02-11 at 03:32 AM ----------

Here's what I want to know. For someone who comes off as such a big proponent of holy, there is a decided lack of playing holy in your progression. You didn't go holy for either of your Garajal kills, nor have you gone disc for your kills of Spirit Kings, Elegon, Will of the Emperor, or Blade Lord Tayak. And you were disc for Imperial Vizier Zorlok attempts. You don't even stay holy for Sha of Fear normal.

Now, I myself enjoy holy quite a bit, but I also don't spout off about how holy is every bit as capable as disc for *progression* either. You really oughta practice what you preach, or just stop preaching bud.

e: You really don't need to 3-heal Elite Protectors btw.

Again, if people would have actually read my first post.


I never said i 100% play holy, I said I switch based on what I feel is best for the encounter at the time.


e: I keep telling them to make the shaman go ele for elite protectors but they wont listen -.-



My original response

They are two different playstyles


Neither is better then the other, each are useful in different situations.


/thread

All the disc priests came in here getting upset because I said holy can perform just as well as disc and were like "O NO U DON'T SIR DISC > ALL K!!!"

---------- Post added 2013-02-11 at 03:37 AM ----------

And I will say it again, there is nothing wrong with playing holy for progression. You can clear HC bosses PERFECTLY fine either as holy OR disc.



Oh, I used caps lock + bold. I must be mad right?