Troll Racial - 5.2

[Mandible]

Well, firstly, horde raids aren't (can't be) made up entirely of trolls - so that's out. Also, any troll healers will have their racial effectively nullified. So let's say half the horde raid are trolls. (Hypothetically - this could be more, it could be less.) In a ten man, one of these trolls are healers. One is a tank. That leaves four trolls doing 5% more dps (one of whom is a tank). Overall, this raid is doing.... (math's time!)

( 105% x 4 (4 trolls) + 100% x 4 (non trolls) ) / 8 people doing dps = 102.5% dps. So, even in a very troll heavy raid, the increase in DPS isn't anywhere near 5%!

Discipline priests, and monks - both got abilities to heal through attacks.

[Martinussen]

5% dps increase....what a huge advantage, I could buy an elixir that gives more dps srsly. Crying kids get over it or pay the race change....

Remember world first Gara'jal? It were impossible i think, and you'd always wipe on 3 or 5% hp left simply because it was impossible to do enough dps at that time. If all or most of the dps's were troll, he'd be dead (lets pretrend gara'jal is a beast). Difference between world first and another wipe.

Sure, for the average joe guild it wont matter, but the top 100 kills will certainly matter.

[Deleted]

Dunno what you smoke, but for round numbers, let's say you do 100k dps. You change to troll and, let's say you're a hunter. Your Serpent Sting does not 5k per tick, but 5250, your KC does not 60k but 63k. It roughly translates to at most 3% increase, go to simcraft for better numbers, I tested it in simcraft and average is a bit more than 1.5% dps. It's not really that much, community should stop at some point with this numbers. To some, 0.01% difference would kill a spec.

So... a 5% increase magically translates to a 3% increase, and then to a 1.5%, just because? Non-pet classes will convert the 5% to 1.5% too for no reason?

Unbelievable.

[Stormspellz]

ONE PATCH? are you new here? horde racials have corrupted this game for 3 expansions. bosses have enrage timers for everyone if blizz wants to add 5% hp to bosses for horde players I bet they would fucking throw a fit. so why shouldn't we when were put at a 5% disadvantage or need multiple silences in a 10 man when horde can just have 4-5 blood elfs.

what? hello emfh....

[Sildor]

Generally racials having some effect and not all races being the same is nice, this however is a case when it's going a bit too far. (Nearly) all races have some kind of DPS increase roughly worth ~1% as well as some other minor effect. Trolls have +5% outside of that, 5% is huge, and this is not something that will matter a lot to most players, but it does for that top 0.5%. Horde is already widely considered to have better racials and if anything blizzard should either reduce this buff or or just disable it inside raids or something. If nothing else just to kill the infected debate.

[Angelicat]

Dunno what you smoke, but for round numbers, let's say you do 100k dps. You change to troll and, let's say you're a hunter. Your Serpent Sting does not 5k per tick, but 5250, your KC does not 60k but 63k. It roughly translates to at most 3% increase, go to simcraft for better numbers, I tested it in simcraft and average is a bit more than 1.5% dps. It's not really that much, community should stop at some point with this numbers. To some, 0.01% difference would kill a spec.

Um, that's not how percentages work.

[Archknight]

As some people have already said, this will only matter most at top guilds, where every bit of damage counts. But even then, the most important bosses aren't even considered beasts so it's not such a big deal. Now, I'm not saying I don't agree it's a bit imbalanced, but it shouldn't really matter much for the average guild.

[Frozenshiva]

Um, that's not how percentages work.

It is if you take into account things like target swapping , up-time, movement etc. That 5% will almost never relate to a 5% Damage dealt increase at the end of the fight. Personal Skill will always yield a higher % increase in dps than that racial. Not to mention one mistake at the wrong time nullifies the entire racial advantage.

On a side-note, people need to freek out less and learn how balancing is done. You'd figure after all these years people would be smarter than this.... /sigh

[Kralljin]

But even then, the most important bosses aren't even considered beasts so it's not such a big deal

"most" important will be decided by the tuning.

If, let's say Tortos is one hell of a Dps Check, a Raids full of Dps Trolls is an advantage because you have better chances to kill this boss earlier than Raids with less Trolls.

Less time spent on easier Bosses -> More time on difficult bosses

It is if you take into account things like target swapping , up-time, movement etc. That 5% will almost never relate to a 5% Damage dealt increase at the end of the fight. Personal Skill will always yield a higher % increase in dps than that racial. Not to mention one mistake at the wrong time nullifies the entire racial advantage.

If every single damage spell / hit whatever is targetting a Beast as Troll, you will have a flat 5% dps gain.

Things get tricky if Beast and non Beast are mixed, if you only fight a Beast, it's always 5%.

[Deleted]

First let me say that beserking is one of the best racials in the game for a lot of dps classes. Before the Panda racial was introduced, the difference between a troll and an alliance player was very easily distinguished. It is not a weak racial in PvE. Only orc racial and Panda racial are able to compete with beserking from a PvE pov.

Now to the 5% part. If any of you ever played in a serious (heroic mode) raiding guild, you must be well aware of how often during progression your guild will wipe at 4%, 3%, 2%, 1%, or even 0,2%. This happens every tier. When your guild would do everything for an additional 5 seconds of full raid dps, 5% extra dps would buy you in some cases up to even 30 seconds of extra dps time.

And again, if you ever played in a serious raiding guild, you must very well be aware of how important dps upgrades are. Here is a small list of benefits:
- Extra dps will shorten the fight, giving you extra uptime on important "one time buffs" such as bloodlust and combat resses, which will result in higher dps uptime.
- Extra dps will making the encounter less dangerous and making it more affordable to bring less healers, meaning more dps.
- If you ever tried a fight like Cho'gall heroic during progression (perfect example), then you should be aware that higher dps means less time killing adds, meaning more dps on the boss, meaning an easier time pushing the boss into a new phase, meaning less add spawns overall.

So as you see, while 5% can seem trivial, dps increases will rarely scale linearly (even on a fight like Ultraxion this isn't the case where the 45~ first seconds are the most important). So a 5% advantage is actually pretty fucking huge. A 2% or 1% advantage would still be non-trivial.

[Gamez]

Night elves get a survivability boost (2% dodge) pandas get a dps/healing/tanking boost (double food buff) etc etc races.
and people worrying about troll racial, really.

At least troll racial now can come to some use rather than being completely worthless.

[Glurp]

So T14 there was no hope at top WoL ranks because of increased Asian ilvl. T15 there will be no hope at top WoL ranks because I play Alliance. GG Blizz.

Night elves get a survivability boost (2% dodge) pandas get a dps/healing/tanking boost (double food buff) etc etc races.
and people worrying about troll racial, really.

At least troll racial now can come to some use rather than being completely worthless.

The main Troll throughput racial is Berserking. Beast Slaying was never meant to be their main throughput racial.

GC's answer that "they are early enough in the Tier that it shouldn't matter" is stupid, he basically just admitted that all of the Normal mode content and the early Heroic mode bosses are going to be faceroll...

[iscalio]

At least troll racial now can come to some use rather than being completely worthless.

So weird. As if Beast Slaying was a troll's only racial. Trolls were always one of the lucky races in every fight. Just not as blatantly powerful as they are against beasts.

It is if you take into account things like target swapping , up-time, movement etc. That 5% will almost never relate to a 5% Damage dealt increase at the end of the fight. Personal Skill will always yield a higher % increase in dps than that racial. Not to mention one mistake at the wrong time nullifies the entire racial advantage.

On a side-note, people need to freek out less and learn how balancing is done. You'd figure after all these years people would be smarter than this.... /sigh

You make no sense at all. If any damage the troll does is increased by 5% against beasts, then any damage the troll does in increased by 5% against beasts. It does not matter if he plays well or badly, if he has 100% uptime or 50%, if he is well-geared or not. He will always do exactly 5% more damage than he would have done without the Beast Slaying racial. That's the most basic kind of math - I have no idea how the damage gain can be "reinterpreted" as anything other than 5%.

[ro9ue]

This only matters to like 1000 of the 9.6 million people who play this game. Who cares?

[iscalio]

This only matters to like 1000 of the 9.6 million people who play this game. Who cares?

It matters to everyone who cares about dps. Which I daresay are more than 1000 players.

[ro9ue]

It matters to everyone who cares about dps. Which I daresay are more than 1000 players.

No it matters to people who care about a small dps % threshhold. Not anyone I know.

[bigrichard]

I play Horde and all of my characters are Troll and I canceled my subscription because of this.

[Deleted]

does anyone else remember how a lot of stuff in wrath of the lich king was undead and paladins had a 100% chance to crit with exorcism? ( still remember lichborne dks and meta locks bitching about it lol )not a big deal

.. which was then hotfixed a week later so it could no longer damage players. And then they added a cast-timer to it. And retribution's top-tier talent was still the same as another class's level 40 baseline skill.

Am I still bitter about it? Oh no...

[Taurenburger]

Its now also confirmed that the panda racial Epicuren will not work in raids and the bouncy that reduces fall dmg is gone of bosses where you can fall down stuff.

undeads also cannot break fears from bosses that fear using will of the forsaken.

Edit: i hope everyone gets that its a joke and how its completly unreasonable to nerf 1 racial without nerfing all the others.

This. How can every other race benefit from their racial, while trolls cannot? It's just a few bosses.

[iscalio]

This. How can every other race benefit from their racial, while trolls cannot? It's just a few bosses.

They already have better racials than many races for dps - even without Beast Slaying. Another flat 5% damage increase seems overkill to some, but nobody advocates that all their racials should be removed, obviously.

I play Horde and all of my characters are Troll and I canceled my subscription because of this.

I don't get it.

No it matters to people who care about a small dps % threshhold. Not anyone I know.

What is the threshold where it begins to matter in your opinion then?