[Megathread] Destiny

[Edge-]

They could and should do better at optimizing disc space. Massive open world games like AC manage to keep the game under 70 GB most of the time, there's no excuse for Destiny's relatively smaller levels to take up so much, and Call of Duty is on another level of bullshit what with a short campaign, a bunch of multiplayer maps, and Warzone somehow taking up 200+ GBs (without the hi-rez texture pack if memory serves!) despite this being barely more content than is offered by, say, Doom Eternal which weights 45-ish as of the DLC. As others have said, other console-friendly MMOs like ESO and FF14 don't need to chop up content and have bigger levels as well.

Since we never got confirmation of the engine improvements from 1->2 (I know we never did in the first year or two) I have a sneaking suspicion they didn't fully happen and the reason they've taken down some of this content is simply a matter of practicality with the engine. Don't ask me about specifics, I'm nowhere near technically literate enough, but it seems to fit from what we know of issues past.

I don't know if it's because Bungie lacks talent or are using a terrible engine. Perhaps both.

At first...because it was a rush job under Smith that was largely done in the final 9ish months.
Then because they were working to try to unfuck the game.
Then they started hitting their stride.
Then they broke off from Activision and lost support studios.
Then they decided to take a game that was never designed for longterm support and support it in the longterm.

All while frequently ignoring lessons learned in MMO's over the decades, and often even lessons they learned in Destiny 1. I don't have a particularly high opinion of Bungie as a developer outside of, as you say, the basic nuts and bolts. Gunplay, visuals, movement etc. are all solid as hell. It's the....everything else where they seem to consistently struggle.

There would be a massive outrage and more than rightfully so, people paid for this content, it's part of the game's legacy, it should remain an dthat's the end of that.

Bonus points: If you missed the story back then you've gotta hunt it down in videos/elsewhere from what I know. I think they may have added some of it to the in-game codex, but damn if it's not poor form to take new players and drop them into a universe that's building off of years of story development they literally can't even access because it's all been removed.

I'm still genuinely sad that they're doing what I'd initially hoped and supporting the game for a long time. I had no clue they were so ill equipped for it, and desperately wish they'd start fresh with Destiny 3 with engine improvements, actual lessons learned, and plans to support the game for years to come out of the gate so they can start designing around that.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I'd rather they do what they can and well...not abandon it. Not saying I endorse the removal of content. I just understand why they did it.

Since we never got confirmation of the engine improvements from 1->2 (I know we never did in the first year or two) I have a sneaking suspicion they didn't fully happen and the reason they've taken down some of this content is simply a matter of practicality with the engine. Don't ask me about specifics, I'm nowhere near technically literate enough, but it seems to fit from what we know of issues past.

I guess someone higher up said "Nah not worth it" Despite the fact it tOTALLY would of helped.

[Gorsameth]

I'd rather they do what they can and well...not abandon it.

If the walls are rotten and the floor is full of termites you don't hammer in a few more planks.
You tear it down and build a new house.

But reading all this I can't help but smirk a little at the memory of the people who proclaimed that Destiny would become amazing now that it was rid of the tyrannical Activision overlord

[Jastall]

Since we never got confirmation of the engine improvements from 1->2 (I know we never did in the first year or two) I have a sneaking suspicion they didn't fully happen and the reason they've taken down some of this content is simply a matter of practicality with the engine. Don't ask me about specifics, I'm nowhere near technically literate enough, but it seems to fit from what we know of issues past.



At first...because it was a rush job under Smith that was largely done in the final 9ish months.
Then because they were working to try to unfuck the game.
Then they started hitting their stride.
Then they broke off from Activision and lost support studios.
Then they decided to take a game that was never designed for longterm support and support it in the longterm.

All while frequently ignoring lessons learned in MMO's over the decades, and often even lessons they learned in Destiny 1. I don't have a particularly high opinion of Bungie as a developer outside of, as you say, the basic nuts and bolts. Gunplay, visuals, movement etc. are all solid as hell. It's the....everything else where they seem to consistently struggle.



Bonus points: If you missed the story back then you've gotta hunt it down in videos/elsewhere from what I know. I think they may have added some of it to the in-game codex, but damn if it's not poor form to take new players and drop them into a universe that's building off of years of story development they literally can't even access because it's all been removed.

I'm still genuinely sad that they're doing what I'd initially hoped and supporting the game for a long time. I had no clue they were so ill equipped for it, and desperately wish they'd start fresh with Destiny 3 with engine improvements, actual lessons learned, and plans to support the game for years to come out of the gate so they can start designing around that.

Engine improvements can be done over time, one only has to look at how far WoW has gone over the years to know that. It may be that Destiny's engine is just unwieldy as fuck to use (which seems corroborated by some stories I've heard here and elsewhere) and the choice was either to axe old content or being unable to offer new stuff, disregarding the fact that as a friend told me the new stuff is still buggy as fuck. They even removed MP maps, for pete's sake, why? Surely these can't take up that much space or affect the rest of the game world that much?

And if you ask me even the basic nuts and bolts are nothing special. Warframe is free and far more fun to actually play than D2 (even if I have my fair share of issues with WF as well), Destiny's gameplay is what I would call competent, it's fun playing on Discord with friends and Gambit is actually pretty great if you ask me but beyond that it has just failed to capture my undivided attention.

And as you said, the lore is probably a complete clusterfuck now for anyone but devoted fans who religiously read the Codex and watch Youtube videos. New players are apparently given a short recap then thrown into the Beyond Light intro featuring characters and factions they have no idea about, and are then walled by a DLC salesman. As if WoW started with a short recap (of 20+ total years of lore, lol) then had you do the Maw intro before saying, please buy Shadowlands to continue, oh and we removed Kalimdor, the Eastern Kingdoms, Outland and Northrend from the game so good luck having any idea what those "Horde" and "Alliance" people are about. Madness, I say.

[dope_danny]

you mean the constant stream of error codes since beyond light released, or the hallowed lair strike where the door remained closed forcing players to leave because it was in a bugged state, or the constant teleporting of enemies because the servers they use can't ratify where in physical space the enemy is relative to player position and due to latency and other factors causes enemies to teleport around the fucking map every few seconds until by sheer luck they get killed off due to splash dmg or similar?

Replace that with Strikes on Mars circa Rise of Iron and thats about what i mean yeah. Welp.

- - - Updated - - -

Man you want to see some shit twitter search "destiny buggy" and search by year if you have the browser addon. I found one that said "christ people werent joking about how buggy destiny is now, bosses spawning invincible half in walls, entire planets "resetting", god damn" AND IT WAS MY OWN TWEET FROM HALF A DECADE AGO.

This really is happening again huh?

[Vetali]

Since we never got confirmation of the engine improvements from 1->2 (I know we never did in the first year or two) I have a sneaking suspicion they didn't fully happen and the reason they've taken down some of this content is simply a matter of practicality with the engine. Don't ask me about specifics, I'm nowhere near technically literate enough, but it seems to fit from what we know of issues past.

I believe Titan and Mercury were pretty patchwork. Hence not being able to use your sparrow. The engine wasn't as modular as the WoW engine. I believe now it is with the changes in beyond light.

I think they'd do some good by reintroducing those planets in the environment like the Glykon in Presage to show what the darkness really does when it conquers worlds. But it'd go against their initial reasoning for removing the planets.

[Edge-]

I believe Titan and Mercury were pretty patchwork. Hence not being able to use your sparrow. The engine wasn't as modular as the WoW engine. I believe now it is with the changes in beyond light.

You could use the sparrow in all the OG planets (including Titan IIRC) minus Mercury (first DLC), if memory serves. Given that sparrows were a thing in Destiny 1, including with sparrow races, I'm not sure I'm seeing where/what the improvement would be. Mercury was just awful across the board, I hated everything about that planet and how disappointing the Infinite Forest ended up being.

[Vetali]

You could use the sparrow in all the OG planets (including Titan IIRC) minus Mercury (first DLC), if memory serves. Given that sparrows were a thing in Destiny 1, including with sparrow races, I'm not sure I'm seeing where/what the improvement would be. Mercury was just awful across the board, I hated everything about that planet and how disappointing the Infinite Forest ended up being.

IIRC there was only one section you could sparrow in, and that was the broken bridge area. So maybe that was different. I know Mercury was a mess technically though. Infinite Forest became less of a disappointment in season of the dawn. Personally I never bought the vanilla D2 DLCs because I thought the red war was one of the most boring experiences I had in a game. I had to really will my way through it. Then I gave Forsaken a shot, enjoyed it and I ended up playing until Black Armory where I got bored again. I got hooked with Shadowkeep. Been buying the seasons since and stopped playing WoW all together.

[ro9ue]

If the walls are rotten and the floor is full of termites you don't hammer in a few more planks.
You tear it down and build a new house.

But reading all this I can't help but smirk a little at the memory of the people who proclaimed that Destiny would become amazing now that it was rid of the tyrannical Activision overlord

From everything I've read, they built Destiny based on an agreement with Activision to do D1, D2, D3, etc and adopt the CoD model. That explains the bad D2 code if they just expected to abandon it in a few years anyway. But then it makes me wonder why they didn't say hey, we want to make a definitive Destiny MMO that will be supported for a decade now that we've broken away from Activision.

Then do Destiny ETERNAL or something, have some sort of progress carry over and incorporate legacy content.

All that being said... I actually love how the game plays. I just question the reliability and longevity of digital goods they're asking me to pay for. I'll F2P the game as long as it's active but I think they need to do whatever they can to clean up the existing game, set an expectation for the playerbase in terms of the games future content and stick to it.

[Bugg]

I understand that it's cool to hate on things and belittle games.
For me the reality is different:
* I don't miss the removed parts of the game, I spend 90% of the time in raids, nightfalls, and current content. I understand the points of view of new players regarding the story / missing parts. Destiny was never very good at telling the story and lore in-game. Should someone want, they can check Byf.
* I really don't think the complains about error codes are legitimate. I play almost daily; if I get 1 error code / month, that's a lot. My clan members from US get them more frequently than my EU based ones, so it might be something related to the internet( I am also in EU)? I don't know. But for me this was Never an issue.

There's a lot of bullshit, lies and hateful propaganda in this thread. I hope some can see though the muck, but I'm sure most won't.

[everydaygamer]

PvE right now is fantastic. PvP on the other hand could really use some love. I mean I would absolutely hate a PvP focused season but I can recognize that it might be what it takes for the devs to actually put some work in on that side of the game.

[ro9ue]

But reading all this I can't help but smirk a little at the memory of the people who proclaimed that Destiny would become amazing now that it was rid of the tyrannical Activision overlord

Honestly though... outside of the vaulting of content the game is pretty excellent. I only bumped the thread because phasing out huge chunks of content in an MMO is unprecedented and worthy of discussion. Imo it's pretty bad from a returning players perspective. I thought I could go in and replay all the old stuff to get reacquainted with the game and was mind blown entire planets were missing.

I did find the OG Destiny 1 Cosmodrome campaign they brought back helpful as a way to ease back in, but there's really not great story delivery in game. My experience was logging into the Europa intro, feeling kinda lost. Then I got a few of those Umbral Engrams so I looked up how I was supposed to decrypt those, and ended up meeting other NPC characters that I clearly was supposed to know but didn't. Lots of people just recommending I watch Byf videos - and I probably will - but there really ought to be some kind of tab in the lore area of the game that maybe links off to a chronological recap of what the hell is going on. Especially if they're going to keep rotating and removing content, they need to do this imo.

[dope_danny]

PvE right now is fantastic. PvP on the other hand could really use some love. I mean I would absolutely hate a PvP focused season but I can recognize that it might be what it takes for the devs to actually put some work in on that side of the game.

They would never do it. Last time numbers were put out less than 15% of users partook in pvp at all. Thats why so many exotic quests have a step thats "go get kills in pvp" to pad the queue times with people that would otherwise never touch it. They want to sell those seasonal battlepasses? then they can't make it pvp centric. Shit just look at the abandonment of gambit that just dares to introduce pvp to your pve. Or the weekly quests in the new season trying to get people in.

I would go so far as to expect recent things like the trials debacle suggest that that 15% number has only gotten significantly smaller over time. If it was making them money from a significant audience then it would just get more support in general let alone its own seasonal content.

[Jtbrig7390]

There's a lot of bullshit, lies and hateful propaganda in this thread. I hope some can see though the muck, but I'm sure most won't.

Did they take away a huge chunk of paid for content? Yes they did, therefore the hate is justified. Doesn't matter how much you played it, Its still content many others paid for.

They blamed Activision for all their issues and even threw a party when they was no long part of Activision. They have yet to show Activision was the problem and in fact in many aspects things has gotten worse since they left.

Activision was a easy punching bag for them to throw to the community and a huge part of it ate it up.

[everydaygamer]

Did they take away a huge chunk of paid for content? Yes they did, therefore the hate is justified. Doesn't matter how much you played it, Its still content many others paid for.

They blamed Activision for all their issues and even threw a party when they was no long part of Activision. They have yet to show Activision was the problem and in fact in many aspects things has gotten worse since they left.

Activision was a easy punching bag for them to throw to the community and a huge part of it ate it up.

Actually, I believe the content they removed was mostly free. I mean you had to pay for it at one point but that content had been free for a while. I think the only paid content that got removed was the seasonal stuff from Forsaken.

Honestly, I'd say the game is doing great, yeah content got removed but if it was either that or make Destiny 3 I say go for it. It was mostly just feature bloat at that point and I don't think most people really care all that much outside of maybe a few strikes and raids people liked.

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly though... outside of the vaulting of content the game is pretty excellent. I only bumped the thread because phasing out huge chunks of content in an MMO is unprecedented and worthy of discussion. Imo it's pretty bad from a returning players perspective. I thought I could go in and replay all the old stuff to get reacquainted with the game and was mind blown entire planets were missing.

Technically you could consider WoW's reworking of Vanilla content for Cataclysm as removing content, even if WoW Classic now makes it possible to see that stuff for a while there was a lot of the classic experience you couldn't really see anymore.

[ro9ue]

Technically you could consider WoW's reworking of Vanilla content for Cataclysm as removing content, even if WoW Classic now makes it possible to see that stuff for a while there was a lot of the classic experience you couldn't really see anymore.

Updating zones is much different from removing zones. What Destiny 2 did would be like if Blizzard said the Cataclysm destroyed Azeroth and now you can't go to any of the old world anymore at all. All that's left of Kalimdor for example are ruins of Uldum, and island of Mount Hyjal. Basically all that's available are the Cata zones and the rest is sunk/gone.

[Witchblade77]

Updating zones is much different from removing zones. What Destiny 2 did would be like if Blizzard said the Cataclysm destroyed Azeroth and now you can't go to any of the old world anymore at all. All that's left of Kalimdor for example are ruins of Uldum, and island of Mount Hyjal. Basically all that's available are the Cata zones and the rest is sunk/gone.

this.

just because it was eventually made free doesn't change the fact that

1. people paid for it at some point
2. it pretty much puts most content behind the paywall, which renders the whole idea of Destiny being f2p game - completely moot. even SWTOR's version of f2p is not as bad, cause at least you get acess to all the original stories + first expansion.

seeing that content I paid for is made free eventually? yeah, it happens but I still have acess to it, so /shrug. seeing content that I paid for being outright removed (yes, I know that online games eventually shut down, but we are not talking about shut down game here, are we)? makes me not want to buy content from that company ever again.

I really do enjoy Destiny's gameplay. but the way Bungie has been handling it turns me off.

[dope_danny]

Updating zones is much different from removing zones. What Destiny 2 did would be like if Blizzard said the Cataclysm destroyed Azeroth and now you can't go to any of the old world anymore at all. All that's left of Kalimdor for example are ruins of Uldum, and island of Mount Hyjal. Basically all that's available are the Cata zones and the rest is sunk/gone.

^This. The game being f2p now doesn't mean shit to the people who paid for a full price retail product and watched said thing they pay for mostly go away. Even Anthems still all there until the servers die.

[everydaygamer]

I've paid full price for all that content and I can tell you I don't give a damn that it's gone because I have not remained static. It's not like I had a limited amount of money to spend in my entire lifetime, I am constantly getting more money year after year so why do I care about what I may or not have spent money on over a year ago.

Life is too short to spend bitching on whether or not my purchase is good for my entire lifetime.

[BeepBoo]

This season is fine, and I'm glad they went back on their dumb idea of "sunsetting", but their desire to constantly "shift the meta" is fucking stupid IMO. They should strive for NO meta by virtue of everything being balanced and having a specific role, and all of those roles being equally valid and effective at the ultimate goal of "beat shit."

I'm sick of boring sniper gameplay in grandmasters because using anything close range is an automatic death sentence. I'm sick of felwinters in PVE because it can 1 shot kill shit at SMG range. I'm sick of stasis because CC is the most OP thing in any PVP game ever and it doesn't matter how much they tune it down (unless they tune it to the point of uselessness).

I'm also sick of running shit hundreds of times to hopefully get lucky on a proper roll only to be disappointed while the fucking scrub brother of one of our raid's mains we carried gets eyes of tomorrow his first run through.

I'm sick of bounties being necessary to make progress on the season pass so I'm forced to either use shit I hate to progress or play how I want for fun and get nothing. Especially when power levels impact the top tier activities so much.