Jab Nerfed Again :D

[DirewolfX]

Unless the intent is to reduce the rate of our Chi generation?

Any more details on how the new Soothing chi generation works? I tried to get on the PTR this morning, but it was down.

[iDrunkenheal]

You should get 3 chi per channel of soothing as it stands now on PTR. Honestly they need to up to more like 4 to put it closer to our on-GCD jabbing from before.

And that brings us back to Jab->Jab->Uplift but in an even more efficient manner, while at the same time killing all the fun of the class. Channeling soothing is not nearly as fun as jabbing on the gcd and deciding whether or not to use our chi on bok/tp or uplift. Soothing all the time as well will kill the passive healing we gain from AA Eminence (~5-10% of our healing), which is already getting nerfed. Back when our rotation was jab->TP and smartly use ReM and uplift for aoe phases the rotation was incredibly fun. Using the free surging mist to help spot heal as well as chi wave on cd was honestly a lot of fun for some of the heroic fights I tested.

[Emerya]

I like how they are going with this. Nerfs jab-jab-uplift and buffs jab-jab-tiger palm/blackout kick.
Really hoping I can fistweave more often without going oom so fast, even if that won't heal for as much.

You'll go oom quicker purely fistweaving. On live, jab -> TP is 3% mana. Now it's going to be 4%.

[Dreyo]

Here's a thought for Soothing.

Keep the X%-chance-to-gen-chi, but give it a guaranteed Chi on a short ICD (3 seconds?). Adjust percentage as necessary to meet the target (whatever it is) for average Chi gen over time.

[Condemner]

How do you apply this logic to the Discipline Priests?

Ghostcrawler even went out of his way several times to indicate that not much will change since they're close to shipping 5.2. The point still stands, they don't reply to Monk concerns but at the same time make sure Disc Priests don't feel too "nervous" about the nerfs coming to them. Combine that with the constant flipflopping and the increasingly laughable changes they're making to the way we play Mistweavers and you get the image of a developing team that doesn't know what they are doing.

It's not even based on math anymore. Just wait, you'll see the retarded amount of hotfixes going through 5.2, too.

I have to be honest here that i don't know much about how everything goes concerning priests. I see feedback a a very good thing, but I trust Blizzard to try get everything as balanced as possible.

What I tried to point out in my post is that for 1, it's a PTR change which is probably the effect of something Blizzard doesn't want, or what Blizzard want's to try out to see if it's viable. Eventually they will answer the 'why' if there's so much confusion about a change. How is healing of mistweaver monks now anyways (on live servers) compared to other healers at 90?

[DirewolfX]

Here's a thought for Soothing.

Keep the X%-chance-to-gen-chi, but give it a guaranteed Chi on a short ICD (3 seconds?). Adjust percentage as necessary to meet the target (whatever it is) for average Chi gen over time.

That's a good idea... still hoping to get on and see what they did with it. No notes or info from GC yet. =/

[Deleted]

This only makes me think harder about what the actual purpose of these changes were though, if Soothing Mist is just as efficient as Jab was the only thing they're nerfing is fun. Even if it's not, it's not as if we're overpowered? I mean we're not bad but I don't see any changes for holy paladins who are leagues ahead of us... Sure we get more damage if these changes were to never happen, but all they had to do to rectify that was clear muscle memory when Chi was spent on anything as opposed to just Tiger Palm or Blackout Kick. Call me fucking retarded but to me that seems like a better universal solution for everyone.

[Felade]

This only makes me think harder about what the actual purpose of these changes were though, if Soothing Mist is just as efficient as Jab was the only thing they're nerfing is fun. Even if it's not, it's not as if we're overpowered? I mean we're not bad but I don't see any changes for holy paladins who are leagues ahead of us... Sure we get more damage if these changes were to never happen, but all they had to do to rectify that was clear muscle memory when Chi was spent on anything as opposed to just Tiger Palm or Blackout Kick. Call me fucking retarded but to me that seems like a better universal solution for everyone.

According to Velen's spreadsheet, Soothing is more efficient than Jab on live. Jab is just more reliable.

The problem they are trying to fix is not our healing, it is our damage while healing. They don't want us doing the healing of a regular healer while also doing significant damage. That causes class stacking when enrages are tight. They also want us to pick either healing or dps and use our other chi generators more. Blizz gets upset when healers use only one healing spell to do everything.

I have only two problems with all of this. I don't like Soothing as the solution to our generator problem. I also think
ll this talk of splitting the styles is a bit disingenuous with archangel still providing so much healing for disc.

Blizz tends to get a bit stubborn about its healing design. Take it from a grumpy old Holy Priest- if it bothers you I suggest voting with your feet.

[HardCoder]

I look at it this way, Atonement healing isn't something a priest regularly slips into their healing rotation either (as far as I know, it's been at least 1 expansion since I played it). But, when healing need is lighter, you can work in some dps without completely neglecting your healing.

Atonement is a pretty easy and extremely efficient healing style. My priest is geared about 477 and on LFR runs I am mostly using holy fire/smite/penance for DPS/filler, with cascade on CD if necessary, bubble on a tank if there aren't 4 other priests, and PoH/SS occasionally if needed. Often atonement will be my top heal (50+%), I'll be on or near the top in HPS, and am usually #5 or lower in overhealing (sometimes behind tanks). I get 20-35k DPS overall on boss encounters, depending how much "real" healing I have to do.

Priests probably underuse atonement right now for two reasons: (1) PoH/SS is too good (it's headed for a major nerf in 5.2), and (2) many of them don't like the playstyle. But it is not bad as it stands. It's also decent for soloing and questing.

I would like to get around to leveling as MW/BM one of these days and I do like the "melee healing" concept a bunch.

[Deleted]

Does somebody knows what is the second haste cap for RenM ?

Because, perhaps, if we switch on MW, Soothing ( which more or less benefit from haste), and are gonna make more use of SCK, + the fact that the T15 bonus are RenM bonus, perhaps we could see some haste optimisation ? I don't know how many spirit we should lose to reach the capµ?

[Deleted]

All haste breakpoints for ReM come in increments of 3000 after 3145. So 3145, 6145, 9145... and so on. Also no, haste is a fucking shocking stat for us.

Simply put, that 3000 haste could be 2000 crit (3.33%), ~1200 spellpower and 0.5 crit (~300 crit rating) or 2000 spirit.

[Gorsameth]

According to Velen's spreadsheet, Soothing is more efficient than Jab on live. Jab is just more reliable.

The problem they are trying to fix is not our healing, it is our damage while healing. They don't want us doing the healing of a regular healer while also doing significant damage. That causes class stacking when enrages are tight. They also want us to pick either healing or dps and use our other chi generators more. Blizz gets upset when healers use only one healing spell to do everything.


Blizz tends to get a bit stubborn about its healing design. Take it from a grumpy old Holy Priest- if it bothers you I suggest voting with your feet.

If our dmg is the problem then fix our dmg, dont break the class over it and increase mana costs into the bloody roof.

Checking some logs sees me doing about 20k dps on when i can afford to fistweave (hc bladelord for example)

If thats to high (it isnt) then they need to just reduce jab/tp/BoK dmg by X and up eminance by y to compensate. not this

They want to stop us from mindlessly jabbing and spamming uplift.
Tobad blizz took away all our other tools already so its the only thing we have left aside from being tank heal bots with no raid healing or cds (raid or tank useable)

[Totaltotemic]

All haste breakpoints for ReM come in increments of 3000 after 3145. So 3145, 6145, 9145... and so on. Also no, haste is a fucking shocking stat for us.

Simply put, that 3000 haste could be 2000 crit (3.33%), ~1200 spellpower and 0.5 crit (~300 crit rating) or 2000 spirit.

Actually no, that haste rating is before the 50% multiplier, so that 3000 haste could actually be 3k crit, 3k spirit, or 1.5k Int. It's even worse than it appears.

[Deleted]

Actually no, that haste rating is before the 50% multiplier, so that 3000 haste could actually be 3k crit, 3k spirit, or 1.5k Int. It's even worse than it appears.

Oh right yeah, brain fart. So around 5% crit, 1800 spellpower + 0.6 crit or 3k spirit.

[Shinchib]

I have the fix to our AoE healing situation. I'm a g'damn genius! It fits exactly what Blizzard wants to do: separate Fistweaving from Mistweaving.

Mistweaving:
Soothing mist should be on a RPPT/channel (real proc per tick) system and will "guarantee" chi generation. What also needs to happen is that uplift must not break this SoM channel in order for RPPT to continue generating a "steady" supply of chi. Sounds OP? Nerf the cost of SoM or nerf the healing power of Uplift. Also, I would also say that ReM should not break the channel but I'm on the fence with EH and leaning more towards leaving it as is (ie, break the channel of SoM). Make it cost more to use this than fistweaving as well so we can't just continue to use it during the entire encounter; we'd need to switch to fistweaving in order to regenerate some of our mana.

Fistweaving:
Not having any smart heals has been the big issue with MWs since the beginning. However, with fistweaving, we not only have our smart eminence heals, we will also continue to get our free SuM procs for a free smart heal that can crit for 180k (504 ilvl). We will be doing a lot more damage than our healer counterpart and we can do about ~30k HPS which will only increase with our T30 talents not costing chi. We do however need an increased range with our statue to 40y.
FW rotation:
ReM on CD
EH on CD
SZ up (please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there is only 1 stack of SZ now right? I'm uncertain about this) either way, with EH and ReM generating chi, we can use that plus a BoK to maintain SZ if its one stack or two.
TP up

Few notes:
- FW not an option (WoTE, although you could technically still do it) and it feels like you're OOM fast? Well, I don't have an exact solution for this ATM besides to regem to full spirit.
- Another idea would be a second placable 'special' statue that adds additional eminence healing and it has a duration and CD to help with burst healing while still FW. Range of 40y.

[Deleted]

"Not having any smart heals has been the big issue with MWs since the beginning."

wot

[apepi]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...6#post20308706
This is just fun in the sun!

[Deleted]

Would be nice to have a glyph or something to remove the dispel from Revival. So it can be used on fights like Primordius =/

[Felade]

Ters

If our dmg is the problem then fix our dmg, dont break the class over it and increase mana costs into the bloody roof.

Checking some logs sees me doing about 20k dps on when i can afford to fistweave (hc bladelord for example)

If thats to high (it isnt) then they need to just reduce jab/tp/BoK dmg by X and up eminance by y to compensate. not this

They want to stop us from mindlessly jabbing and spamming uplift.
Tobad blizz took away all our other tools already so its the only thing we have left aside from being tank heal bots with no raid healing or cds (raid or tank useable)

They still want us to do damage, they just want us to choose either damage or healing, not pick out the best of both. The damage matters a bit more in 10 mans where dps might be missing a buff and a healers dps can be a greater proportion of the raid's dps.

Also folks still act like ReM does no healing and Jab is the only way to get mana. ReM gives 1 chi per! You should only need to uplift after big hits like crush or get away.

[apepi]

i'm sorry but if i could not agree more for FW, if we start to play MW on 5.2 i think we really must rethink our optimisation

While in FW, haste ONLY works on RenM breakpoints. It doesnt up your chi generation, nor your dps, nor your EnVM which you almost never use while FW.
Furthermore, FW seems to need more mana to work than MW, so the crit is totally the only stat for FW

BUT, if we start to MW, haste could up :
-by a large amount our chi generatiion ( i did some test on live: 9 tick having a chance to generate chi in 6.8sec with second haste cap, but 9 ticks in 6.0 sec with the 3rd cap )
- up our RenM, which, i'll repeat it again, is far far far away on Tier 15 our primary healing source ( and by far way , i mean FAR , thanks the tier 15 bonus )
- up our EnvM ( gives a new breakpoint) , which is more used in MW than FW
( up the SCK which is not a good argument, but it can be intereseting )

To reach that breakpoint, i'd only lose 2.4% crit, and 0 spirit. 2.4% crit means what? 1 mana tea charge each 40 tea? Woot

If we gonna MW lot more, i'm sure haste can be the stat to choose, or, at least, should not be totally ignored without further testing

Int increases damage from FW I believe.