What do Republicans have to do to become relevant again?

[Felya]

then the mother could have killed him with out being charged with murder because you cant kill what is already dead right?

Will making abortions illegal, stop them? You are still arguing as if abortion being illegal, would end abortions. When the reality is that it will simply make them more dangerous.

[Vyxn]

Did you just question her qualification to speak on the subject, that you bolster in having no experience with?

he seamed to have more experience in the subject then she did atleast he knows you can get birth control for 4 dollars per month that she seamed not to jave any knowledge of

[cutterx2202]

"contentious issue," which isn't the case - it's a settled and done issue.

If it's non-contentious, how can we argue about it?

[Felya]

It took 13 years to over turn prohibition in the US. Some things are worth fighting for.

Yeah, one of the major reasons it ended was the rise of organized crime getting around it. Now apply the same logic to abortions...

[Vyxn]

Will making abortions illegal, stop them? You are still arguing as if abortion being illegal, would end abortions. When the reality is that it will simply make them more dangerous.

then we should just make murder legal because no matter what law we pass people still commit murder

[Tinykong]

Seriously, stop listening to Rush.

1> She was there on behalf of the entire female student body, and in particular a friend with PCOS, not herself.
2> When you're going into massive debt to attend university, additional hundreds or thousands a year for birth control is not a reasonable burden. And no, you can't just buy birth control for $4/month. Most birth control pills are prescription, and for certain illnesses (particularly PCOS), you need specific types, which aren't the cheaper ones. My ex-wife had PCOS, and even in Canada, it cost us $30/month or more.

If you don't understand even the basic facts of the situation, you're not helping.

I don't listen to Rush (but thanks for the stereotyping) the sound of his voice alone is irritating enough to make me turn him off, let alone the content of his program.

You can buy a 28 day supply of birth control for $9 from Walmart today (used to be $4) with no insurance. She could have walked into planned parent hood and gotten an exam for $100 or less (maybe even free if she met certain income requirements) that is good for a year and walked out with a prescription.

The myth that birth control is "$3,000 a year" is utter bullshit. Sprintec can treat PCOS, and it's $9 for a month.

[Blacksen]

Why would you say that? Are they now racist?

As a racist, how is Michelle a good role model?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq5lb5e5yVY

Hell, she hated America before she got in charge of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYY73RO_egw

There are more, just search youtube of the Obamas making many racist remarks.

Why isn't John Steward nixed from the Democrats? He's not a good role model. Here's my point: These people aren't put there by the party and can't take them out of office - they aren't in an office and have no control over that person. They remain popular because a lot of people share the same opinions as these people, whether they're racist like Michelle, or make common sense mistakes like Rush did in assuming a person who wants ALL contraceptives (not just the medicinal purpose people) to be free and paid for by tax payers is not using them for copious amounts of sex. People share those opinions and some guy at the Dem/Rep headquarters can't dictate people identifying with them.

Dude, you are just so disconnected from the rest of the world it doesn't even matter <.<

[Masark]

Dude, you are just so disconnected from the rest of the world it doesn't even matter <.<

No, not disconnected. His connection is one-way-only.

[Felya]

he seamed to have more experience in the subject then she did atleast he knows you can get birth control for 4 dollars per month that she seamed not to jave any knowledge of

Define experience... Because actually taking them, is more experience. If you want to argue not knowing the price, that's cool. But, to compare her experience, when she is the one using it, is funny if true.

[Vyxn]

Yes.

I'm not sure where your difficulty is, here. The child was born brain-dead. They managed to get the body to carry on for three years. I find that more than a little disturbing.

he wasn't hooked up to any machine doctors did not have to keep him alive he was able to suck on a bottle to eat
he was able to breath on his own

[Blacksen]

If it's non-contentious, how can we argue about it?

We can argue about "is the sky blue?" I pose that it's not - it's actually just a figment of our imagination set by God to keep us calm and peaceful outside. Prove me wrong.

(Point being: we can argue about anything).

Also, add "birth control" to the list of things Republicans shouldn't talk about.

Again, Republicans need to brand themselves as "the party of freedom," which means that they don't get involved in your private life. Your decisions on birth control, health, abortion, gay sex, marriage, etc. are all your private life. They want a world where the government doesn't need to interfere or guide people because everyone already has a great footing.

Ironically, Paul Ryan's Republican Response to the State of the Union was one of the best I remember because it clearly set a vision of the Republican party that people could get around. But then he clouded that vision by talking about abortion, gay marriage, etc. during the race.

If the vision is actually "a country so successful that it doesn't need government," then quit fucking around in private affairs.

[Endus]

The myth that birth control is "$3,000 a year" is utter bullshit. Sprintec can treat PCOS, and it's $9 for a month.

Where'd you earn your medical degree?

Medications aren't necessarily effective on every patient. Her friend needed special hormone treatment for her PCOS. It cost more. Georgetown's insurance denied her claim because they thought she might be using it for contraception.

Read literally anything about the case; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Fluke

You're just expressing what amounts to outright lies because you don't know the actual facts.

[Masark]

he wasn't hooked up to any machine doctors did not have to keep him alive he was able to suck on a bottle to eat
he was able to breath on his own

Awesome. So he was as alive as my grandmother was after suffering multiple strokes and having no possibility of ever regaining consciousness, much less recovering.

I suppose you're going to argue that she should have been kept alive indefinitely rather than allowing her to die?

[Tinykong]

Her friend's prescription was for a med that cost over $100/month. You can't always just get the generic cheap stuff.

She claimed that birth control was costing over "$3,000" during law school which is just sensationalized bullshit. Let's say it takes 8 years to graduate, that's $375 a year on contraception.

Some napkin math:

12 condoms is $6.50 at Walmart
$375 a year is almost 700 condoms. Who the hell is having sex twice a day, every day, for 8 years? Fuck, I wish I was that lucky.

Like I said; try actually reading up on it before posting. And regardless, how does any of that justify publicly slut-shaming her on national radio?

It doesn't, and I never said it did. Her claim that she is an American woman who uses contraception qualifying her to talk about the subject, while ignoring the fact that contraception is available nationwide for $9/month, is what I was commenting on.

---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 10:54 PM ----------

Where'd you earn your medical degree?

Medications aren't necessarily effective on every patient. Her friend needed special hormone treatment for her PCOS. It cost more. Georgetown's insurance denied her claim because they thought she might be using it for contraception.

Read literally anything about the case; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Fluke

You're just expressing what amounts to outright lies because you don't know the actual facts.

She wasn't expressly talking about her friend, the case was also made about the price of condoms because birth control pills weren't covered by the student insurance plan.

It's like you're completely ignoring the rest of the argument because Rush Limbaugh was brought up, and you're stuck on the situation regarding her friend. She expressly commented about financial hardships of other female students because of the lack of covered medication.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I'm pretty sure you could throw a dart at a calendar and reliably find something outrageous that Rush has said. I at least have some respect for O'reilly because the number of his egregious offenses are somewhat limited (that and he can sit down with Jon Stewart and have a decent chat). Rush is one of those media outlets that panders to the extremely far and fanatical right. He's just as bad as any extremist on either side.

[Felya]

then we should just make murder legal because no matter what law we pass people still commit murder

How are you going to know when a baby has been aborted illegally? I don't care about your emotional bullshit in comparing it to murder. Deal with it as is, where the illegal form still happens and you have no way of knowing when a woman does it, to even punish her. Unless you are willing to make miscarriage illegal, there is no way for you to punish those who break the law. This is an argument based on reality, not plea to emotional bullshit comparing it to murder. Lets not forget, you understand this logic, because you apply it to guns.

[Endus]

She claimed that birth control was costing over "$3,000" during law school which is just sensationalized bullshit. Let's say it takes 8 years to graduate, that's $375 a year on contraception.

She said it could cost that much. Not that it always did. You're being deliberately dishonest.

She wasn't expressly talking about her friend

Except that she was, since she brought her friend's experience up specifically as an example.

You are stating things that literally anyone could tell are fundamentally untrue, just by reading the wiki or nearly any news story on the subject.

[Vyxn]

Awesome. So he was as alive as my grandmother was after suffering multiple strokes and having no possibility of ever regaining consciousness, much less recovering.

I suppose you're going to argue that she should have been kept alive indefinitely rather than allowing her to die?

no my argument would be not to purposely kill her letting some die and purposely killing some one are two diferent things

[NineSpine]

I've read through a bit of this thread, and what I've concluded is the following:

What do Republicans have to do to become relevant again? The opposite of what most of the Republicans in this thread are doing. Seriously: You are the problem. You really just need to all stop acting as though you are entitled to be right about everything. You are not. You are not entitled to have every fact in the world validate every opinion you have. When a fact contradicts your opinion, you really need to learn how to deal with that, because the current canned response of anger and subject shifting isn't doing you any favors, and it's what has led you so far down this rabbit hole that you are currently lost in.

---

I have had this ongoing argument with my grandfather ever since the election. He is convinced the Republicans are only in bad shape because too many people are getting government handouts and nobody will vote to end their handouts. When I point out that Clinton slashed welfare dramatically and retained massive approval amongst those demographics, he just changes the subject. The truth is that the Republicans are falling out of favor because their policies are literally that of a Christian version of an organization like the Muslim Brotherhood, an organization that they themselves freak out about (for those ignorant of the Middle East, the Muslim Brotherhood is a conservative, religious, NONVIOLENT organization). They are falling out of favor because Americans increasingly see the party as hell bent on cramming itself into the most personal aspects of everyone's lives on a religious basis.

Maybe even worse than that is that people are seeing the Republicans as increasingly unwilling to engage in the really basic aspects of managing the government. Republicans seem to have this misconception that most of what government is, is radical policy shifts and societal crafting. That's false. Most of what government is, is basic management. It's filling out the paperwork, keeping the checks mailed, maintaining the infrastructure, etc. etc.. The Republicans have turned every little thing into such a profound emotional drama, obstructing everything that they can get their hands on, that people see that and see people flatly unwilling to really do their jobs. They seem more interested in moral grandstanding than in making sure that the government they are supposed to be running is actually running effectively. They are like a manager of a store who refuses to handle his day to day responsibilities because he has a problem with the overall structure of the corporate management of the company. Whether his gripes are valid or not becomes unimportant, because his store is falling to pieces and he just looks like a lazy ass.

[Sivick]

I find it somewhat hilarious that the same people who argue that it's no use passing gun control laws because criminals will still get around it are the same people arguing for anti-abortion laws, as if people won't just do it themselves anyway. at least pretend to be consistent. Either people are gonna do stuff anyway and don't bother passing laws against it, or try to put a stop to the behavior you don't like by passing laws, you can't have it both ways.

It's like Rubio's response to the president. "government programs are bad because they kill innovation and drive to succeed, now let me tell you about the government programs that have helped me in my life." wtf?

My personal favorite right wing inconsistencies are of course "we are pro-life!" how do you feel about the death penalty and guns? "LOVE EM!" RIIIIIIGHT.....

and last but not least: "the government is too stupid to do things efficiently as private business can. the government has secret plots to get our guns and take over the world!" Either the U.S. government is too stupid to do things or it's smart enough to do all these crazy conspiracies, but you can't be both at the same time.

INCONSISTENCY! Oh they are also racist as hell. I point to that old tea party picture with obama made up to be some tribal african. Nuff said. every other month some bigwig republican is apologizing for sending out some racist email. a few times is understandable but damn, at this point there's really no hiding it anymore.