GC has no intention of fixing pets when it comes to mechanical buffs

[Tehstool]

Again, nothing more than vague statements loosely threaded together in a lame attempt to defend the OP's already poor opinion. How about a response from someone who doesn't play a qq'ing huntard?

Vague statements? How much more clearer could it be put? You are just here to argue/attack other people.

[Nemesis003]

I can fully grasp your whining and narrow field of vision, disregarding every other class with a pet. Please, inform me further with your grasp of all things pet-related.

yeah you are not smart enough to understand this please just don't post.

[Araya]

So Hunters aren't the best class for 1 fight of 1 tier? They said they are perfectly fine with certain classes/spec not being the best for every fight. Its only a problem when a raid is actively sitting a class because of a fight, THEN and only then is it a problem. Example of this was pre-nerf Heroic spine where the burst damage was stupidly high required PERFECT raid stacking to beat the encounter.

[Nemesis003]

So Hunters aren't the best class for 1 fight of 1 tier? They said they are perfectly fine with certain classes/spec not being the best for every fight. Its only a problem when a raid is actively sitting a class because of a fight, THEN and only then is it a problem. Example of this was pre-nerf Heroic spine where the burst damage was stupidly high required PERFECT raid stacking to beat the encounter.

actaully it was several of the fights


heroic Protectors, Heroic stone guard, normal and heroic Spirit binder, heroic and normal Will, the pet doesn't not get the haste buff on heroic Sha.

its more then one fight, hell i prolly left a few off

[clevin]

Nemesis... do you actually LIKE playing hunter? Because literally every post from you is complaining. I see your stuff and, even if the point might be good, discount the hell out of it because of the constant negativity. If you hate everything about how hunters are done right now, re-roll.

[Tehstool]

yeah you are not smart enough to understand this please just don't post.

Honestly, just ignore him from here on out. He's not contributing to the discussion and he's just here to argue. He has no basis for his argument, what class would intentionally hinder themselves? The classes he claims that are being hindered by the mechanic are really not being hindered. Mages and locks completely avoid it and frost death knights have their ghouls doing ~2k less dps than they could be doing with the buff. If we were only losing 2k dps then I wouldn't care. Now, I'm not necessarily agreeing with you on all your points, I just think something should be done to somewhat fix it.

[eschatological]

Currently, Sac > Supremacy and Service. Next tier, I believe Supremacy > Sac. The point is, if that hierarchy existed now (Supremacy > Sac), a warlock could go Sac and still do near max damage as the two talents are at least somewhat balanced around each other.

For hunters, we get to choose between being massively gimped, or only 10% gimped. Would you ask a warlock to go Demo with a Felguard on H-Protectors? He'd laugh at you, because that's nonsensical, even if Supremacy > Sac.

The problem with this is that Blizz constantly promotes "bring the player, not the class." When a specific aspect of a class that does, minimum, 15% of your damage doesn't get a buff that every other class either fully benefits from or has the option to benefit from, guess what? It becomes "Bring the player, unless he's a hunter" for that fight.

Oh, and I play many classes, including DK. Do you think I'd force myself to be UH (a style I actually prefer to frost) on an encounter where pets aren't inheriting buffs? That's silly. Your counterargument that "WEll, some specs *do* have pets" totally glosses over the fact that they can choose not to, and be within an acceptable delta of other classes. Hunters can't exactly dismiss their pets and be viable. Hell, I remember in DS where I raided for a week without realizing my pet's special attack (Bite) was turned off, and I was almost benched for progression for being behind other people because my pet wasn't doing full damage. And that was a tier which had no +dmg buffs, and only one buggy pet encounter (Ultraxion).

[Eda]

"Fights are unfair for Ranged"
"Fights are unfair for Melee"
"Fights suck for non-insta casters"

Not every fight is optimised for every class to be god-like. If it was, there would be no challenge. Limitations are placed on most classes at some point in the raiding tier- You know, to actually make you think and/or add an element of difficulty.

What fights are absolutely devastating hunter pets? I personally can't think back on any recent fights I've been in. Unless there are some on the PTR? (in which case.. is still being worked on).

[gulder]

So are we shit outta luck for Jin'rokh?

I don't know if any of the other fights have mechanics that buff us temporarily.

[Deleted]

Go play a different class then and stop qqing cause hunters aren't the best. There are like 28 or so DPS specs, and everyone who plays them wants them to be the best at every fight, it isn't gonna happen.

If you don't like it reroll another class. I'm sorry but the buff will be there for a reason and it's probably designed to be a fight where BM aren't optimal. There is nothing wrong with that since it gives other classes a time to shine.

[gulder]

You know, to actually make you think and/or add an element of difficulty.

If a hunter does middling dps with a pet and the mechanics of the fight do not buff the pet, you want to sit the hunter.

Because there is nothing he can do to overcome this on his own.

[Tehstool]

"Fights are unfair for Ranged"
"Fights are unfair for Melee"
"Fights suck for non-insta casters"

Not every fight is optimised for every class to be god-like. If it was, there would be no challenge. Limitations are placed on most classes at some point in the raiding tier- You know, to actually make you think and/or add an element of difficulty.

What fights are absolutely devastating hunter pets? I personally can't think back on any recent fights I've been in.

When a class is nerfed ~15% on an encounter it seems kind of ludicrous to be saying that.
I don't think devastating is the correct word you are trying to use. Doesn't make sense in your context. Hunter pets take literally zero damage so nothing could really be devastating to them.

Currently, Sac > Supremacy and Service. Next tier, I believe Supremacy > Sac. The point is, if that hierarchy existed now (Supremacy > Sac), a warlock could go Sac and still do near max damage as the two talents are at least somewhat balanced around each other.

For hunters, we get to choose between being massively gimped, or only 10% gimped. Would you ask a warlock to go Demo with a Felguard on H-Protectors? He'd laugh at you, because that's nonsensical, even if Supremacy > Sac.

The problem with this is that Blizz constantly promotes "bring the player, not the class." When a specific aspect of a class that does, minimum, 15% of your damage doesn't get a buff that every other class either fully benefits from or has the option to benefit from, guess what? It becomes "Bring the player, unless he's a hunter" for that fight.

Oh, and I play many classes, including DK. Do you think I'd force myself to be UH (a style I actually prefer to frost) on an encounter where pets aren't inheriting buffs? That's silly. Your counterargument that "WEll, some specs *do* have pets" totally glosses over the fact that they can choose not to, and be within an acceptable delta of other classes. Hunters can't exactly dismiss their pets and be viable. Hell, I remember in DS where I raided for a week without realizing my pet's special attack (Bite) was turned off, and I was almost benched for progression for being behind other people because my pet wasn't doing full damage. And that was a tier which had no +dmg buffs, and only one buggy pet encounter (Ultraxion).

This is what I'm trying to say. I love you.

---------- Post added 2013-03-01 at 07:29 AM ----------

Go play a different class then and stop qqing cause hunters aren't the best. There are like 28 or so DPS specs, and everyone who plays them wants them to be the best at every fight, it isn't gonna happen.

If you don't like it reroll another class. I'm sorry but the buff will be there for a reason and it's probably designed to be a fight where BM aren't optimal. There is nothing wrong with that since it gives other classes a time to shine.

So you don't want anyone to play a hunter in world of warcraft? Seems legit.

So are we shit outta luck for Jin'rokh?

I don't know if any of the other fights have mechanics that buff us temporarily.

Pets get the buff on jinrok afaik from testing.

[eschatological]

"Fights are unfair for Ranged"
"Fights are unfair for Melee"
"Fights suck for non-insta casters"

Not every fight is optimised for every class to be god-like. If it was, there would be no challenge. Limitations are placed on most classes at some point in the raiding tier- You know, to actually make you think and/or add an element of difficulty.

What fights are absolutely devastating hunter pets? I personally can't think back on any recent fights I've been in.

H-Will, H-Garalon, H-Protectors, to name 3. Your argument is also invalid because we're not talking "unfair," we're talking about an actual mechanic of the class gimping us artificially. A good melee can compete on non-melee friendly fights. So can a good ranged. I cannot compete on H-Protectors as a hunter. In fact, as one of our strategy people, I specifically said I should be sat, unless we literally had no one else. There is a difference between "Man, it's hard for a melee on that fight" to "Man, I do 15% less damage on this fight regardless of how difficult I find it."

This isn't even a thread about overall hunter balance. We top maybe one fight this tier, H-Vizier, because of the high mobility needed and us being the best mobile, ranged class. This is a thread about mechanics not applying to 15% of our damage which we can't substitute out.

[Thiron]

Pets get the buff on jinrok afaik from testing.

Nice. Wait, does it mean that BM will actually be very good there, since pet will be able to have 100% buff uptime, and players will have to go out?

[eschatological]

As long as tanks position the boss correctly, yeah, pets should always have the buff.

[Tehstool]

Nice. Wait, does it mean that BM will actually be very good there, since pet will be able to have 100% buff uptime, and players will have to go out?

Not entirely sure about that. I wasn't able to fully test it, but the description of the mechanic states that it will no longer provide the benefit of the zone. However I thought I saw an elemental inside one of the electrified zones and it still had the buff. I will need to test it the day of 5.2 unless if they test jin'rokh more during the PTR. I still think that BM will be better for that fight simply because it's strictly single target.

[Ichifails]

Swap a talent/change specs for ~10% more damage just because of how the mechanics work? Sounds pretty good to me. They still will sac their pet on fights that require it as it will be the best talent from that tier. Why would mages go frost? Frost has a pet. DK ghouls aren't 15% of a frost death knights damage. You are just trying to attack him.

I seriously don't get Asmodejjj got banned. If it was for another thread, fine. If it was for another thread fine but in this thread he was the only one making any sense.
You seriously have no clue what the hell you are talking about. The only reason that pets are/will be Sacrificed is that the pet mechanics DON"T FUCKING WORK.
If pets worked properly, most classes would still use their pets. He wasn't the one attacking anyone, you guys are just butt hurt and refuse to understand that this hurts other people as well.
You can't tell people that they CAN NOT USE A SPEC BECAUSE YOU don't want them to. Maybe most people will want to play frost. Or Unholy. I sure like to play demonology but our pets are currently in a way worse state than yours are.
Pet mechanics are so bad for warlocks, DEMONOLOGY WITH AN IMP is the best spec to play now. Because Sacrifice was nerfed to the ground and other pets are melee so they bug like hell. So really... shut up and stop attacking people actually making sense.

---------- Post added 2013-03-01 at 09:03 AM ----------

H-Will, H-Garalon, H-Protectors, to name 3. Your argument is also invalid because we're not talking "unfair," we're talking about an actual mechanic of the class gimping us artificially. A good melee can compete on non-melee friendly fights. So can a good ranged. I cannot compete on H-Protectors as a hunter. In fact, as one of our strategy people, I specifically said I should be sat, unless we literally had no one else. There is a difference between "Man, it's hard for a melee on that fight" to "Man, I do 15% less damage on this fight regardless of how difficult I find it."

This isn't even a thread about overall hunter balance. We top maybe one fight this tier, H-Vizier, because of the high mobility needed and us being the best mobile, ranged class. This is a thread about mechanics not applying to 15% of our damage which we can't substitute out.

Enlighten me on how exactly pets gimp you on HWill, HGaralon and HProtectors. Pets do get all the buffs in this raid tier including Garalon leg buff.

[Kryos]

Hunters pets are fine. I played hunter since vanilla and the pets never where better. They survive nearly everything and if they really get killed (very rare) you can instant revive it. Warlock pets on the other hand are fragile and warlocks have much more reason to complain.

[Nemesis003]

I seriously don't get Asmodejjj got banned. If it was for another thread, fine. If it was for another thread fine but in this thread he was the only one making any sense.
You seriously have no clue what the hell you are talking about. The only reason that pets are/will be Sacrificed is that the pet mechanics DON"T FUCKING WORK.
If pets worked properly, most classes would still use their pets. He wasn't the one attacking anyone, you guys are just butt hurt and refuse to understand that this hurts other people as well.
You can't tell people that they CAN NOT USE A SPEC BECAUSE YOU don't want them to. Maybe most people will want to play frost. Or Unholy. I sure like to play demonology but our pets are currently in a way worse state than yours are.
Pet mechanics are so bad for warlocks, DEMONOLOGY WITH AN IMP is the best spec to play now. Because Sacrifice was nerfed to the ground and other pets are melee so they bug like hell. So really... shut up and stop attacking people actually making sense.

---------- Post added 2013-03-01 at 09:03 AM ----------



Enlighten me on how exactly pets gimp you on HWill, HGaralon and HProtectors. Pets do get all the buffs in this raid tier including Garalon leg buff.

on will pets do not get the titan gas, on garalon they had to break the boss to allow pets to get the buff because hunters were not allowed into that fight, on heroic protection the percentage damage buff will not apply to a pet.

You are just like Asmodejjj, you simply do not grasp the concept, every other class has the choice to not use a pet for a fight where the mechanics don't work for pets. hunters do not get the option, so the CLASS is fucked not simply just a spec. You are the one not smart enough to grasp the idea. Its one thing to have a spec be inferior to a fight there is no issue with that, but when you block an entire class from a fight it is a failure on the devs side.

[Deleted]

on will pets do not get the titan gas, on garalon they had to break the boss to allow pets to get the buff because hunters were not allowed into that fight, on heroic protection the percentage damage buff will not apply to a pet.

You are just like Asmodejjj, you simply do not grasp the concept, every other class has the choice to not use a pet for a fight where the mechanics don't work for pets. hunters do not get the option, so the CLASS is fucked not simply just a spec. You are the one not smart enough to grasp the idea. Its one thing to have a spec be inferior to a fight there is no issue with that, but when you block an entire class from a fight it is a failure on the devs side.

Most hunter's here are saying that they are doing so much less damage at HC Protectors than the rest.

I agree that hunters are at disadvantage but it's not that much that most people here are claiming. You see Someone have to get the buff as a last. If you make a proper arrangement for the buff you get from 1 to 9 when last boss is alive, thus, making it mean much less.

And don't say that it's stupid to take that into account when making strategies, of course they are taken into account.

Someone here can maybe compute how much less damage it is not to have that buff on pet for, say, 1,5 min compared to having that buff on pet. I think it's not game breaking if your not at World Top 10 guilds (and if you are that boss was not that difficult after all that it would have affected on the race anyway).