Are Pets Affected By Fluidity?

[Kanadei]

I remember reading something about this recently but can't find it now and want to know before patch.


Also for bonus points, I currently have 2800 valor with 1/2 upgraded LFR gun and 0/2 upgraded Relic of Xuen - I feel like maybe I should upgrade both because I might not get a new wep/second trinket for awhile - semi casual guild, only just cleared this tier, probably gonna be a few weeks before any wep bosses and as far as I know the new trinkets aren't amazing for hunters bar the one from friendly - better to upgrade now and potentially wait a couple weeks on valor upgrades or should I just stack valor and trade up?

Apologies if any of this is already existing in a thread, if so just delete.

[PBitt]

I can't say for 100% certainty as it is not yet live nor did I test the first boss myself, but I did see in another thread on this forum that yes, pets were receiving this buff properly, but don't quote me on that, I haven't see in for myself, but a couple people in another thread on this forum said it was indeed working.

As for upgrades, that is a yes on that trinket for sure, if you have neither H Bottle or H Terror at 2/2 upgraded that trinket is close behind Terror as third BiS for t14 and is in fact better than any of the normal trinkets from t15 based on testing so far. You'll want to run that with the VP trinket as you suggested until you get to heroic mode t15. Not so sure about the gun, seeing as you've already gotten it halfway, I guess you could do it but it really won't make a huge difference either way. Pretty much anything, even a LFR weapon, will probably be better than even a 2/2 upgraded LFR gun. I personally would just save it to buy 522 stuff earlier, I think that will make a bigger difference,a s important as weapons are, given what I would guess your ilvl is. You will definitely get some longevity out of upgrading the trinket, however.

[Kanadei]

Yeah that makes a lot of sense, and confirms what I was thinking about the trinket - kinda wish I had done it earlier now.

Thanks for your suspicions on fluidity, I also remember someone saying something much like that. If anyone has a link that would be great.

[PBitt]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...chanical-buffs

That is the thread I saw it in, forget what page but wasn't going to backtrack as there are many pages of stupid back-and-forth arguments.

[Deleted]

Yeah that makes a lot of sense, and confirms what I was thinking about the trinket - kinda wish I had done it earlier now.

Thanks for your suspicions on fluidity, I also remember someone saying something much like that. If anyone has a link that would be great.

I copied the text from the patch notes :

Is this another fight where the debuff isn't going to transfer to pets? Not getting that damage buff for BM pets is unfortunate.
In our next build the benefits from standing in the pool will also apply to your pets. This is based on the player's location, not the pet's location.

[Kanadei]

I copied the text from the patch notes :

Is this another fight where the debuff isn't going to transfer to pets? Not getting that damage buff for BM pets is unfortunate.
In our next build the benefits from standing in the pool will also apply to your pets. This is based on the player's location, not the pet's location.

Thats the blue post I remember. Thanks.

[Deleted]

They are, but BM still sucks because the intervals when the pools spawn don't line up with BW so you either have to use it without the buff or delay for a retarded amount of time, so you're still better off playing Lynx Rush survival (crows has the same problem)

[Tehstool]

They are, but BM still sucks because the intervals when the pools spawn don't line up with BW so you either have to use it without the buff or delay for a retarded amount of time, so you're still better off playing Lynx Rush survival (crows has the same problem)

Bestial wrath should line up with the pools, not sure what you looked at. Crows is also fine since you are in the first pool for about ~1 minute so you'd have 100% uptime on AMoC. Then after that your AMoC should come up slightly before or right as the next pool spawns. In fact everything should line up perfectly with that fight.

---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 02:37 AM ----------

Also just for clarification pets do get the buff.

---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 02:45 AM ----------

This is what it should look like:

~45 seconds in pool spawns -- Pop all CDs here and potion.
1:15 crows is on CD
~1:45 in the pool starts to get electrocuted -- Pop BW here
~2:20 next pool spawns -- Pop AMoC on the boss
2:45 BW comes off of CD use it, you'll get the full duration.
~3:45 next pool spawns -- Pop BW here
4:20 Pop AMoC
4:45 pop BW jin'rokh should die shortly

Jin'rokh should die around the 5 minute mark so pop everything else as it comes up.

[Deleted]

Bestial wrath should line up with the pools, not sure what you looked at. Crows is also fine since you are in the first pool for about ~1 minute so you'd have 100% uptime on AMoC. Then after that your AMoC should come up slightly before or right as the next pool spawns. In fact everything should line up perfectly with that fight.

---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 02:37 AM ----------

Also just for clarification pets do get the buff.

---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 02:45 AM ----------

This is what it should look like:

~45 seconds in pool spawns -- Pop all CDs here and potion.
1:15 crows is on CD
~1:45 in the pool starts to get electrocuted -- Pop BW here
~2:20 next pool spawns -- Pop AMoC on the boss
2:45 BW comes off of CD use it, you'll get the full duration.
~3:45 next pool spawns -- Pop BW here
4:20 Pop AMoC
4:45 pop BW jin'rokh should die shortly

Jin'rokh should die around the 5 minute mark so pop everything else as it comes up.

The issue comes on heroic, when you have to run out for both Ionization, and for the charge fixate, both of which cause you to lose the fluidity buff.
BM relies very heavily on it's cooldowns and should they be interrupted by a badly timed fixate, or the CD coming up around ionization then you're gg'd.
Also, by delaying your first BW by 45 seconds you're potentially losing a whole CD depending on the fight length...

Survival is a much smoother source of damage and therefore preferable, at least imo.
(I'm also assuming you still have the 16s BW from the 4pc)

[Tehstool]

The issue comes on heroic, when you have to run out for both Ionization, and for the charge fixate, both of which cause you to lose the fluidity buff.
BM relies very heavily on it's cooldowns and should they be interrupted by a badly timed fixate, or the CD coming up around ionization then you're gg'd.
Also, by delaying your first BW by 45 seconds you're potentially losing a whole CD depending on the fight length...

Survival is a much smoother source of damage and therefore preferable, at least imo.
(I'm also assuming you still have the 16s BW from the 4pc)

SV also has to step out due to those reasons too, so that doesn't really matter. BM > SV single target under these circumstances.

Actually if you used just one BW at the start and waited 15 seconds in the pool, it could in theory still work. My bad. I'll have to look at that.

My first one versus

Prepot

Pop BW at the start
~45 seconds in pool spawns -- Pop AMoC
1:00 pop all cds and pot and refresh AMoC
1:15 AMoC is on CD
~1:45 in the pool starts to get electrocuted
~2:20 next pool spawns -- Pop BW and put AMoC on the boss
~3:45 next pool spawns -- Pop BW here (since waiting 25 seconds is 1/4 of a bestial wrath and therefore worth it to wait)
4:20 Pop AMoC
4:45 determine if you should pop BW if jin'rokh should die shortly
~5:10 pool spawns if he's still alive here pop BW

Using BW at the ~45 second mark: gives 5, 4 under fluidity.
Using BW at the start: gives 6, 4 under fluidity

The second method is much better, more efficient and you get another potion! Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I appreciate it

[Deleted]

SV also has to step out due to those reasons too, so that doesn't really matter. BM > SV single target under these circumstances.

Actually if you used just one BW at the start and waited 15 seconds in the pool, it could in theory still work. My bad. I'll have to look at that.

My first one versus

Prepot

Pop BW at the start
~45 seconds in pool spawns -- Pop AMoC
1:00 pop all cds and pot and refresh AMoC Readiness now, Waste 15 seconds?- Should have saved first one, +30s - 2nd crows is out of the pool
1:15 AMoC is on CD
~1:35 lightning storm is cast, GTFO POOL OR DIE
~1:45 in the pool starts to get electrocuted [delayed crows is only 15s done, only got 5s in pool coz you got out 10s ago]
~2:20 next pool spawns -- Pop BW and put AMoC on the boss Can't - CD til 3+mins
~3:05 New Lightning storm, GTFO - Crows just came off CD - Wait 30s for new pool or go now?
~3:45 next pool spawns -- Pop BW here (since waiting 25 seconds is 1/4 of a bestial wrath and therefore worth it to wait)[crows is up now]
4:20 Pop AMoC - You just used it? Or it's on CD from your no-pool cast
4:45 determine if you should pop BW if jin'rokh should die shortly
~5:10 pool spawns if he's still alive here pop BW
5:25 - BW

Using BW at the ~45 second mark: gives 5, 4 under fluidity.
Using BW at the start: gives 6, 4 under fluidity

The second method is much better, more efficient and you get another potion! Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I appreciate it

Guess you use readiness between 45s and 60s? That means you either use readiness before BW comes up (15s or so) or you have to delay, screwing your crows usage. If you do, Crows is on CD when you want to use it in that 2nd pull, and definitely won't line up with ~3rd fluidity

Hope my edits outline how clunky it felt to play in PTR - hence why i switched to SV and a 1.5min CD
**Edits**
*Gonna have to keep editing thsi as i spot my own mistakes, ridiculously tired and shouldn't be posting TC at this time )

[Tehstool]

You havent used readiness? Even if you do, Crows is on CD when you want to use it in that 2nd pull....

I'll clear some things up.

I must've messed that up when I was reviewing over it. Slight mistake, my bad.

Prepot
Pop BW at the start
~45 seconds in pool spawns -- Pop AMoC
1:00 pop all cds (this includes Readiness) and pot and refresh AMoC
1:15 AMoC is on CD
~1:45 in the pool starts to get electrocuted
~2:20 next pool spawns -- Pop BW
~3:15 next pool spawns -- Pop BW and AMoC
4:45 determine if you should pop BW if jin'rokh should die shortly
~5:10 pool spawns if he's still alive here pop BW and possibly AMoC

So with that in mind LR is probably better.

With lynx rush that would put it at
Prepot
Pop BW at the start
~45 seconds in pool spawns -- Pop LR
1:00 pop all cds (this includes Readiness) and pot and refresh LR
1:04: LR is on CD
~1:45 the pool starts to get electrocuted
~2:20 next pool spawns -- Pop BW and LR when the CD comes up.
~3:15 next pool spawns -- Pop BW and LR when the CD comes up.
~4:15 pool starts to get electrocuted.
4:45 determine if you should pop BW and LR if jin'rokh should die shortly
~5:10 pool spawns if he's still alive here pop BW and possibly LR

Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

In regards to the crow usage it's good except the first mistake I made.

If I use it at 45 seconds in with a 30 second duration that would put it at the 1:15 mark and since readiness was used around the 1 minute mark we can refresh it, the cooldown usage should explain the rest.

[Deleted]

I'll clear some things up.

I must've messed that up when I was reviewing over it. Slight mistake, my bad.

Prepot
Pop BW at the start
~45 seconds in pool spawns -- Pop AMoC
1:00 pop all cds (this includes Readiness) and pot and refresh AMoC.
1:15 AMoC is on CD
~1:45 in the pool starts to get electrocuted
~2:20 next pool spawns -- Pop BW
~3:15 next pool spawns -- Pop BW and AMoC
4:45 determine if you should pop BW if jin'rokh should die shortly
~5:10 pool spawns if he's still alive here pop BW and possibly AMoC

So with that in mind LR is probably better.

With lynx rush that would put it at
Prepot
Pop BW at the start
~45 seconds in pool spawns -- Pop LR
1:00 pop all cds (this includes Readiness) and pot and refresh LR
1:04: LR is on CD
~1:45 the pool starts to get electrocuted
~2:20 next pool spawns -- Pop BW and LR when the CD comes up.
~3:15 next pool spawns -- Pop BW and LR when the CD comes up.
~4:15 pool starts to get electrocuted.
4:45 determine if you should pop BW and LR if jin'rokh should die shortly
~5:10 pool spawns if he's still alive here pop BW and possibly LR

Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

Going over my normal mode fraps now since i deleted the HC one (I was using crows, but i switched 1 try later)

45 - pool spawn
1:35 - Storm is cast, GTFO or die
2:15 - New pool
3:05 - Storm, GTFO
3:50 - New pool
4:40 - Storm - GTFO
5:20 - Pool
6mins - Storm and Berserk

Each pool is ~1:30 apart on that pull.

Survival with Cooldowns:

45: Pool - LR, RF, Readiness
1:00 - RF
POTION
1:04 - LR refresh
1:35 - STORM
2:15 - Pool
2:34 LR UP
2:54 - LR down
3:05 - Storm
3:50 - Pool
4:00 RF
4:04 - LR
4:25 - LR Down
4:40 - Storm
5:20 - Pool
5:34 - LR up
5:45 - READINESS! RF with procs
5:53 - LR Refresh
6mins-6:10 - Storm + Berserk, you lose
Lr dot ticks til either he dies or you do

BM + Crows (1)and(2) are options on when to use

0 - BW
45 - Pool
1:00 - BW/READINESS/RF/CROWS/POTION
1:16 - BW Up
1:30 - Crows(1) again. Storm in 5 so no buff...
1:32 BW down
1:35 - Storm is cast, GTFO or die
2:15 - Pool
2:16 - BW Up - Crows(2)
2:32 - BW Down
3:05 - Storm, GTFO
3:16 - BW up
3:30 - Crows(1) - 20s to pool, delay?
3:32 - BW Down
3:50 - Pool
4:16 - BW up - Crows(2) - RF now
4:32 - BW Down
4:40 - Storm - GTFO
5:20 - Pool
5:30 - Crows(1) off CD - Crows 2 on CD but READINESS + RF
6Mins - Bersek so you dont get to use readiness'd Crows - it just dropped off but you died!

[Tehstool]

Going over my normal mode fraps now since i deleted the HC one (I was using crows, but i switched 1 try later)

45 - pool spawn
1:35 - Storm is cast, GTFO or die
2:15 - New pool
3:05 - Storm, GTFO
3:50 - New pool
4:40 - Storm - GTFO
5:20 - Pool

Each pool is ~1:30 apart on that pull.

Let's add Cooldowns!

45: Everything - LR, Readiness
1:04 - LR
1:35 - STORM
2:15 - Pool
2:34 LR UP
2:54 - LR down (100%)
3:05 - Storm
3:50 - Pool
4:04 - LR
4:25 - LR Down
4:40 - Storm
5:20 - Pool
5:34 - LR up
READINESS!
5:53 - LR Refresh
6mins-6:10 - Storm + Berserk, you lose
Lr dot ticks til either he dies or you do

During which point of ptr testing was this recorded at? When he had ~700 million + hp or ~600 million? It sure sounds like the 700 million version, because with the 600 million version it should be a bit different than what happened in your fight.

[Deleted]

770m version, I wasn't on a 600m kill, what changed?

Heroic boss was the same for me at least, 1-2min CDs were annoying

[Tehstool]

770m version, I wasn't on a 600m kill, what changed?

Heroic boss was the same for me at least, 1-2min CDs were annoying

It went from 770m to 622m or vise versa. How long was your fight and how long did it take you to kill him in the 770m version if you don't mind answering so I can determine which one is supposed to hit live.

[Deleted]

21/2 - 20:31 Server was my fraps, so like 30mins after testing went live(if that was our first "kill"might have been second), we went back to raiding live after that so i cant tell you if it changed... We were at 12% when he cast his 3rd storm (3rd pool), with a full 2mins on berserk when we decided to wipe to avoid ID bugs - scaled down to 502. This version can easily go live and be no trouble for anyone with 496+

I just watched the LFR version with 565m and his timings seem exactly the same

4th pool is 5:30 not 5:20 in this video, but they dont pull for 10 seconds...

[Tehstool]

21/2 - 20:31 Server was my fraps, so like 30mins after testing went live, we went back to raiding live after that so i cant tell you if it changed...

I just watched the LFR version with 565m and his timings seem different.

4th pool is 5:30 not 5:20 in this video: LFR though

The pools spawn timer probably fluctuates a bit, I've seen quite a few different times when it spawns. I looked at him when he had 622 million on the 21st at ~12ish server time approximately. So they probably buffed him a bit since he died so fast otherwise. Ok. I guess I'll just have to see how it plays out then.

[Deleted]

I have a habbit of posting then thinking of lots more to say, and sometimes i dont get my corrections in fast enough - Re-read my post

As for "server time" i was on about EU server time, umm....whenever the test started, he died for us 15mins later, so he definitely wasnt buffed before we killed him, if anything, the 662m was a nerf after we left o.O

Seeing as we were scaled down to 502, on US servers with 200ms and slaughtered the 770m version by 2 full minutes, i don't really see why a 660m version is even necessary, our 4th pool hadnt even spawned.

Just gonna have to wait and see, like you said.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANYWAY

Yes, pets do get the fluidity buff, OP, sorry for slightly derailing your thread

[Tehstool]

I have a habbit of posting then thinking of lots more to say, and sometimes i dont get my corrections in fast enough - Re-read my post

Yeah, happens to me too lol.
So with his 622 million health at first he must've been insanely undertuned.
At least I have a rough version of how my CDs will work so I can be ready though.

---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 08:32 AM ----------

I think it happened again