Wildlife Mafia: Maasai Mara Style

[Decagon]

I figured I could use logic and reason to convince you to lynch samm instead of me, because honestly, logic and reason dictates that you should. The reasons for lynching Samm first are many, the reasons for lynching me first are "because you are scary scary, Lysah!" and nothing else.

Lying is not always a bad idea, you're using emotions instead of logic now. "You lied!" is not a valid excuse to lynch anybody, ever.

Lying is a bad idea when it can only serve to hurt the town. What benefit was there for you to lie to us if you were truly working for the town?

I haven't even said that I'd vote for you, I've said I'm going to vote for Sammriy (eventually), but this whole dialogue between Rollo, you, and me is making me think I should act otherwise.

[Lysah]

Lying is a bad idea when it can only serve to hurt the town. What benefit was there for you to lie to us if you were truly working for the town?

I haven't even said that I'd vote for you, I've said I'm going to vote for Sammriy (eventually), but this whole dialogue between Rollo, you, and me is making me think I should act otherwise.

I lied to stay alive. Do you really think you wouldn't have lynched me yesterday instead of Majad if I admitted, after samm already admitted to reading scum, that I also would? Using his role claim as my role claim? No, I would've been lynched instantly and I knew that and I think you know that, too. I have to play to stay alive first, I admit that, that much is obvious. What I am arguing for is not to trust me like I'm a townie, but to trust me that the town has 6 people compared to 1 scum and 1 survivor and that I'm not stupid enough to help the scum try to win at this point.

[Decagon]

But please, go ahead and lynch me and lose the game for yourself. I would love to see you do it two games in a row. If you want me to explain what is happening in this game I just might give you that honor if you would kindly refrain from running a ten second train on me.

Stuff like this is why I'm reluctant to let you live, all you do is pester me, insult me, attack me, tell me I'm a horrible player, tell me that I don't deserve to play, you tell me that I'm stupid, hell, you've even gone as far as harassing me in threads outside of the game, and now, you need me to not vote you to live. Being nice to people can actually be good for you, and it would be good for you to learn that as well.

---------- Post added 2013-03-22 at 04:06 PM ----------

I almost feel like Shylock here.

[Lysah]

I didn't insult you or tell you you are horrible, you are extremely overreacting. I said I knew you would lynch me if I copied sammriy's role claim. Are you denying that? I could be wrong, but I just really, really doubt if I said "I know this sounds super scummy but trust me my role is just like this other guy's role that is also super scummy! But I'm not scum either promise!"

[Rollo]

I can't win with the scum because the scum cannot win. I really don't know how you can believe half this game is scum when there were 0 night kills last night and only 1 the night before (AND she's dead - it was Everything Nice who either got night killed or hit you, YOU who claimed to be a PGO who was the one who killed her!). There is ONE scum left, it's obvious, look at the night kills.

There have only ever been 2 night kills (possibly a third when one of the traitors was converted N1 or 2). I'm not saying we only have 1 scum, I believe we have 2. I also believe one of them can only attack every 3rd night (which would explain 1 missing kill the last 2 nights. I also believe either Sammriy was protected from a kill or blocked from a kill preventing a night kill from occurring last night. That explains only 1 kill the last 2 nights for me. I also claimed PGO as a way of saying the only way I could have killed Everything Nice was if she attacked me. No way am I confirming that was actually the case. She very well could have been killed by scum. I get no confirmation when I am attacked.

There is NO chance leaving me alive will help the scum win. The town. Already. Won.
And yes, we should vote on Sammriy because she admitted she is scum. What is so bad about that?

You are the only one who seems to think we have a solo scum left, and yet just yesterday you were saying its silly to think we don't have more. That we should e playing as if we are at lylo. While I don't believe we are that low, I do believe we have a couple and no more. Of you 4 (Falbacca, Celtic, Lysah, and Sammriy), I believe 2 are scum. Hell, could be Blood Fox too. We tested your claim that you would show as town and you failed. Now we want to test Blood.

There are no night kills left. Period. Stop deluding yourself. The only way someone can die tonight is if I guess Decagon's target. But that won't happen if you lynch sammriy because we won't even go into night phase.

The game would be over if no night kills remained.

How can I not think you're just inventing an excuse to lynch me when your reasoning is that the game is going to go from 1 to 0 and back to THREE night kills, we have never even had three to begin with, not since night 1, and now that there are no scum left suddenly the town is going to lose. Okay.

We had 3 kills either N1 or N2 when the traitor was converted. It just didn't register as 3 kills. We've only ever SEEN 2 night kills. It's possible your role resulted in a few kills if people targeted you. Instead of them killing you, you killed them. I'm also not trying to invent a reason to lynch you. I have a rather valid reason. If we are 1 away from victory, we can get there with or without you. If we are 2 away, we could POTENTIALLY have 3 kills tonight. The odds are there, whether they're high or not is not the issue. You even claim we are 1 away and that if Sammriy doesn't end the game we can go for you. So you're okay with losing if Sammriy is our town vigilante? You know, a role we haven't come across all game. My vote won't change. No amount of arguing will change that. Everyone has a choice of Sammriy or Lysah. It's currently 3-2 Samm.

[Lysah]

You are the only one who seems to think we have a solo scum left, and yet just yesterday you were saying its silly to think we don't have more. That we should e playing as if we are at lylo. While I don't believe we are that low, I do believe we have a couple and no more. Of you 4 (Falbacca, Celtic, Lysah, and Sammriy), I believe 2 are scum. Hell, could be Blood Fox too. We tested your claim that you would show as town and you failed. Now we want to test Blood.

That was true BEFORE we had ZERO night kills last night. Now I know better and you should too.


And it's completely possible there is a living scum who cannot night kill. I don't think so, but in original mafia traitors counted as scum, recruited or not, and the town couldn't win until they lynched the traitors, too. I don't know what's happening in this game, maybe there are 4 scum left, but there are NOT 3 night kills left. It is logistically impossible.

[Rollo]

I didn't insult you or tell you you are horrible, you are extremely overreacting. I said I knew you would lynch me if I copied sammriy's role claim. Are you denying that? I could be wrong, but I just really, really doubt if I said "I know this sounds super scummy but trust me my role is just like this other guy's role that is also super scummy! But I'm not scum either promise!"

I honestly can't say how I would have votes yesterday. I think I still would have gone for Majad. At least with your claim, we could have validated you and Blood Fox a day earlier possibly. It's different now. Things you said yesterday as a way to show Sammroy's guilt can be used against you as well.

You want us to believe Blood Fox is scum, that he's lying about his role, yet we are to believe he followed you last night and confirms you targeted listo. What if he is lying and only said that to appear town with you? What if both of you are scum and both of you now know it? If he is lying, then we have no confirmation that you targeted listo last night to "protect" him as well as make sure you didn't kill Decagon when she targeted you.

---------- Post added 2013-03-22 at 03:28 PM ----------

Side not, this will be my last post for a while. Got a 6-7 hour drive back home. Might post when we stop for gas or food.

[Lysah]

I don't think Blood Fox is scum anymore. I used to think there might be 2 scum left, but Blood Fox convinced me. Not only does his claim prove mine, but he is willing to test it tonight, should the game continue. I doubt a scum would go that far with 6 town alive, it's a guaranteed loss to play like that if he is scum.

If both of us were scum, we would be trying to off each other and he would be crusading me just like you are because a lynch on anyone but him is a good thing.

[Rollo]

Him crusading you would be his death if he then would end up as the last scum and be tested tonight. If he plays it slow, he could take care of it tonight and possibly guess correctly in the morning. Outlandish maybe, but in the realm of possibility.

And toodles, gf is done shopping. Time to leave!

[Lysah]

I just don't see why you have any reason not to trust his claim. Sure, he claimed after me and could have made it up on the spot. At the same time, why should you trust listo or deca, then? I forget which one posted his list of night actions first but the other could have obviously just worked that into their list. Especially listo, who has no proof of jailing anyone this game, we just have to take his word for it. While we're being paranoid and assuming everyone but rolo is a scum, why don't we go ahead and think of a way to check listo's role? The only reason you can trust Deca is because he got a positive on me and I admitted it, heck, if I had just said "what? NOPE LOL" you wouldn't be able to trust him, either.

I didn't trust blood fox because my role should have killed him. But I admit it's possible he was protected. It's possible the mods worked in some stupid RP nonsense about how he didn't have to move to track me when my role specifically states that I kill anyone who moves toward the target. You don't trust me so why should you trust my reasoning for finding fox suspicious? For all you know, I'm still lying about my power and that's why Fox is alive. But you choose to think he's scum because it supports your logic in lynching me. You're picking and choosing what to believe. I don't think you can agree with my logic on why someone is scummy and then call me scum and say you don't believe anything I say when I change my mind about it.

[Decagon]

I didn't insult you or tell you you are horrible, you are extremely overreacting. I said I knew you would lynch me if I copied sammriy's role claim. Are you denying that? I could be wrong, but I just really, really doubt if I said "I know this sounds super scummy but trust me my role is just like this other guy's role that is also super scummy! But I'm not scum either promise!"

Not this game, no. Yes, you're right, we'd probably have lynched you if you had not lied about your role, and I believe you with enough confidence that I feel safe not actually lynching you unless more evidence is revealed that you are indeed scum, but I do not know what would be revealed to confirm you or further evidence suggesting you are scum is.

---------- Post added 2013-03-22 at 04:39 PM ----------

You can trust me because of my positive on you, and the fact that when I RCed, I was at extreme risk of being killed (even if I was mafia, it would be a bad idea to RC, even if the town believed me), you can trust listo because on the night he said he targeted me, I got a "No result" from an investigation. Yes, he RCed after me, but RCed before I got my no result.

[Lysah]

Yes, I agree that it is very likely you both are telling the truth. But one of you could have easily faked it. I've seen stranger scum claims in the past. My point is that paranoia only works if you're properly paranoid, not just paranoid about certain people.

[Blood Fox]

The game would be over if no night kills remained.

not true, last game i was a survivor with a night kill.

also wtf?!

My vote won't change. No amount of arguing will change that.

that has to be the dumbest shit I have ever heard in this game.

[Decagon]

Yes, I agree that it is very likely you both are telling the truth. But one of you could have easily faked it. I've seen stranger scum claims in the past. My point is that paranoia only works if you're properly paranoid, not just paranoid about certain people.

I'm paranoid about everyone right now but Listo, but we've already established everything that needs to known for Sammriy, and so you're the only one I'm voicing my paranoia about.

[Lysah]

I'm paranoid about everyone right now but Listo, but we've already established everything that needs to known for Sammriy, and so you're the only one I'm voicing my paranoia about.

Okay, I'm happy to hear that. I don't think much more can be said, I just don't want to let rolo have the last word without me countering his logic or I risk people being convinced simply by my lack of counter argument and changing their votes. I don't think much more can be done this game day, lynch me or samm and get it over with in my opinion. I am as close to 100% sure as I've ever been in mafia that she is the last scum of the game. Even if I die she will get lynched tomorrow (I would hope...) and the game will be over either way, I hope we don't drag this out for another week =p

[Decagon]

Okay, I'm happy to hear that. I don't think much more can be said, I just don't want to let rolo have the last word without me countering his logic or I risk people being convinced simply by my lack of counter argument and changing their votes.

Nah, I'm fairly certain you are telling the truth, and even if you are not, you can be lynched in the following days. I'm not discounting Rollo's arguments, I just don't think that it's possible we have 3 scum left due to the number of night kills and the number of scum that have already been dispatched.

[Lysah]

I'm just ready for a new game that isn't a guaranteed town win, this one isn't even fun anymore because it's so one sided =p I'm just playing to survive because I'd be a hypocrite if I let myself get lynched when I tell other people to never let themselves get lynched - I always believe fighting for your life to the last second is part of the game and people who give up or just stop responding are boring.

[Sammriy]

There's not much more than can be said for either side of the argument unless we got some fresh perspective from the quieter posters.

A lot has been said about me and by me, a lot has been said about Lysah and by Lysah.

Every argument that has been used against me can be used against Lysah as well. I'm not really sure how much more either of us can really add to what's already been stated.

I think we should set up a test to ensure Blood Fox is the tracker, the only way we can do that is to have it totally random and it can't be random with Lysah in the mix or else we run the risk of killing a townie by accident.

Rollo has summed it up better than I ever could.

Before we lynch either target, probably want to establish whatever we want to do with Blood Fox first.

[Blood Fox]

to be quite honest I don't know how rolo can claim they can't be any night kills in the game when he has one himself.

listo targeted celtic, lysah targets falbacca, deca investigates someone and i target Deca?

[Sammriy]

listo targeted celtic, lysah targets falbacca, deca investigates someone and i target Deca?

What's to stop someone from killing Deca? They know he's an open target, they can pin it on Blood Fox or you could kill her and claim you're being framed, town loses voting power when Deca goes down and he's pretty much the only person on everyone's 100% trust list other then Listo. On top of all that, you gain no information at all for the following day.

Hence what Rollo has been saying, it needs to be random. We can't know who people are going to target ahead of time.