[US] Nurse refuses to perform CPR

[Themius]

Problem is you most likely would kill the person trying to save them. Get some 200 lb person leaning on a little old ladies chest and watch it crush under the weight, then she dies and it was from you beating her to death.

Its a bad thing either way, if the family is ok with what happened let THEM deal with the facility, all the rest of you are just more talking heads for the news networks.

So what's the point of discussing news on a forum then? Honestly why are you even in this topic if that's how you feel?

[Taurenburger]

Well this has obviously two sides to it:
- If it is in the rules of the "hospital", to not perform CPR on elderly people, I think the staff should follow that rule. Now I do believe aswell, that there isn't implied that the woman wanted to have gotten CPR or the daughter would have known it. The daughter says she is content with the care given and not at all mad that there wasn't CPR performed. To me, this seems that the nurses done the right thing.
- On the other hand, it is a person's life that could have been saved. Pherhaps, she would have lived a good few years if she had gotten CPR. The bad part is, though, that if she had indeed gotten CPR, she could have died in agony from whatever defunctions she had gotten at a later age.

My own opinion: The nurses done well. She followed the protocol. Besides that, the daughter did not object to them not performing CPR and was content with the care her mother had gotten. Performing CPR might have gotten the nurse fired, the elderly woman would have died anyway (might have given her a few years, which could or could not have given her a good QOL) and pherhaps it would have been against what the elderly woman and her daughter wanted.

[Neetz]

it is against the centre's policy for staff to perform CPR and says she won't bend the rules

What on earth?...

[frequency]

CPR already has a very low success rate between 2%-30% when performed anywhere other than a hospital the success rate is between 6%-15% at a hospital.
CPR in the elderly is approx 3% success rate, and if they do beat the odds you have now severely compounded the medical problems of the patient and decreased their quality of life and left them in excruciating pain for what ever time they may have left.

I would place money families are informed of the no CPR policy when leaving their loved ones with this facility.

[Deleted]

Problem is you most likely would kill the person trying to save them. Get some 200 lb person leaning on a little old ladies chest and watch it crush under the weight, then she dies and it was from you beating her to death.

This is all good when we're not talking about a medical professional, which we unfortunately are.

---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 02:53 PM ----------

I would place money families are informed of the no CPR policy when leaving their loved ones with this facility.

I'm pretty sure on this as well. Especially seeing that they have no quarrel with how things went.

[Ihazcakeforu]

I really don't see the debate here?

If the daughter isn't suing or up in arms in anyway (seemingly), then there must have been some sort of DNR or associated rule, and the parties would have known that from the get go.

Old person dies in a nursing home, more at six...

[Deleted]

Her presence there indicated she did. A retirement home does not have the means to provide long-term prevention of pulmonary failure.

Yeah we should let people die based on that assumption. That woman collapsed and had trouble breathing. What sane person would assume that she should just be left to die, because we can't know whether she wanted to be resuscitated or not.

[catablitz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXnA2Jg8Z-w

Coincidence!

[frequency]

I would place money families are informed of the no CPR policy when leaving their loved ones with this facility.

I'm pretty sure on this as well. Especially seeing that they have no quarrel with how things went.

Glenwood executive director Jeffrey Toomer told Channel 17 that, unlike clients of Glenwood's skilled nursing facility and assisted living facility, elderly individuals who reside at the independent retirement facility are not eligible for medical help, and they are made aware of that when they move in.

There we go the family was aware and may have even preferred it, look @ that an 18 page thread and multiple media sources turning a mole hill into mountain.

Media and Internet overreact to a story they have no personal knowledge on, full story at 11.

[Bakis]

Media and Internet overreact to a story they have no personal knowledge on, full story at 11.

The big question is why a civilized society would tolerate legislation that prioritize the possibility to sue someone for trying to save their life than to encourage saving lives.
That is the big question.

[Shennanigans]

This particular facility is an independent living facility. The residents are not cared for by medical personnel. The family and residents are aware of this and agree to the policies there prior to entering the facility. The personnel did follow the policies and the lady in questions family are happy with how the matter was handled and there is no issue with them. It's basically a apartment/ condo situation for retired persons. Calling 911 was the right thing to do.

[Kasierith]

Yeah we should let people die based on that assumption. That woman collapsed and had trouble breathing. What sane person would assume that she should just be left to die, because we can't know whether she wanted to be resuscitated or not.

If a home's policy is not to intervene, than it has a DNR policy built into the contract with its residents. Do you know what a DNR is?

[Stalemate]

credit to the dispatcher for being a human being

[Sicarus]

That's what happens when being a decent fucking human being isn't allowed anymore, it's against the rules now.

[The Casualty]

The big question is why a civilized society would tolerate legislation that prioritize the possibility to sue someone for trying to save their life than to encourage saving lives.
That is the big question.

I think it comes in with the question of an individual's right to live and die (hopefully with dignity). If you open the door and allow a person to choose what methods and under what circumstances they are resuscitated (Living Will/Advance Directives etc...), then failing to adhere to policy should result in punitive action.

With the several different levels of care in at Glenwood facilities and this one with a blanket contract DNR for all residents, it is clear that these individuals agreed (or their families if they weren't competent enough to make that decision) that this was the best choice for them.

What should be investigated is whether this policy of DNR is patently clear to all people who agree to reside there - but that is not the fault of the nurse who followed protocol.

[Waaldo]

credit to the dispatcher for being a a whiny activist

Fixed that for you
It is not "human" to want to torture an old lady who just wants to die. If anything, that is the definition if inhumane.

[yurano]

The big question is why a civilized society would tolerate legislation that prioritize the possibility to sue someone for trying to save their life than to encourage saving lives.

You obviously haven't heard of hospice care for terminally ill patients.

If I was resuscitated in a hospice care facility, clearly I have the right to sue. In contrast, if I died (reasonably) in a hospice care facility, my relatives don't have a right to sue.

In modern usage a hospice is a nursing home for the care of the dying or the incurably ill.

[The Casualty]

Fixed that for you
It is not "human" to want to torture an old lady who just wants to die. If anything, that is the definition if inhumane.

While I am defending the nurse, I don't disparage the dispatcher. I doubt she has the experience working with a geriatric population who just wants to be left to die in peace.

When I was in college, I used to work in a hospital in the cardiovascular unit. I saw a lot of families and loved ones not want to let go. I don't think they did it to "torture" anyone, but out of fear. In my personal opinion, the greatest gift you could give that person is permission to die and for it to be okay. That is a journey for everyone to get to however.

[derp101]

Trust me in this world a company would rather have a policy in there Terms and Conditions saying we dont do cpr than get sued by the family or elderly person for having an un-qualified person person do CPR and cause damage like broken ribs. Sad but thats the world we live in.

[Xarkan]

CPR on an 87 year old woman is as likely to kill her as a heart attack. Cracked sternums, anyone?

Please learn your anatomy before asking for the nurse's head on a platter. She did the right thing.

How can that be true?

Heart attack, no help offered, survival rate?
CPR given to a patient age 87+ suffering a heart attack, survival rate?

Not saying axe the nurse or burn her or any other nonsense. I just question your claim that if a person who will die without CPR receives CPR the person always dies. That sounds unlikely. Granted if it is actually true then attempting CPR on an 87+ year old must count as mutilation of a corpse i guess

Edit: I am of course assuming you are not suggesting that giving CPR to an 87+ year old who is not suffering a heart attack is as likely to kill her as not giving CPR to an 87+ year old who is suffering a heart attack, that could be true but when exactly would that come up?