My gripe as a fresh 90 trying to raid.

[Milamber]

I'm glad the RNG gods smiled on you then. I've ran it 2 weeks in a row and only managed to get 2 items I already had.

They buffed LFRs Droprates last Tuesday/Wednesday.

[Deleted]

You might but I'm not sure the developers will. If the subs continue to bleed expect to see changes. Can't wait for the next expac.

---------- Post added 2013-03-11 at 01:26 PM ----------



I think MoP is grindy relative to what wow was in cataclysm and even in wotlk. I think it's to much grind and I don't like it. All content didn't seem cocklblock all content WAS cock blocked. See but were at the point now where getting to 460 is the new standard and a good thing but is in reality the bare fucking minimum. Don't expect to acutally get gear or get rewarded just expect to hit 460 and the bare minimum.

Yes, it's the bare minimum and I imagine 460-480 might be grindy for some if they just want to farm LFR for upgrades even with the improved droprates. Doing a few dailys on your alts, especially if your main is VP capped, should see your alts sail through to 480 where you can either get your upgrades from ToT or buy SPA VP gear. It's still easy. It takes more time than Cataclysm gearing because Cataclysm gearing, frankly, was too fast. I'm struggling to think of a single MMO I've played which offers a slower progression path for it's "casual" player base and I can't. Maybe Guild Wars 2, but that's certainly open up to debate.

[Leonard McCoy]

Not only did I try do that bro, I also tried to show him that a good progression-raiding schedule is very doable even with a semi-bloated program (like mine, spending ~12h/day outside of my house).

Leonard, you say World of Warcraft was successfull cause it was less MMORPG-like than the previous titles (DAOC, Eve Online, Mu Online and others). That is true, however, PARTLY. One of the big reasons WoW was so successfull was its predecessor, Warcraft III and the expansion, The Frozen Throne. I can bet my left nut half of the people who logged in on WoW Day 1 (like myself) were die-hard Warcraft fans, had played the campaigns, knew the story etc.

Blizz did NOT expect WoW to grow so quickly. I remember an old interview saying their goal was 500k subscribers. And they had 2M in a year's time. 4M by the end of Vanilla. And I can assure you, during Vanilla, things only got harder, NOT easier. New raids that were brutal, AQ40 was a HUGE leap from BWL, many guilds perished progressing there. And Im not even gonna mention Naxx40, the fact I managed to kill half the bosses there while it was current is a miracle (for me).

BUT! and here's the big BUT! There was very little whining back then. Sure there was whining about rogues mages and locks in PVP, and general whining about balance, but NEVER whining about difficulty. Players just accepted what the game offered them, and dealt with it.

Do you know of the original Winterspring Frostsaber grind? Good luck grinding 0-3000, 0-6000, 0-12,000 with a repeatable quest that needed 10 MEATS (drops, not kills) from lvl 58 mobs at 75 rep per quest. SEVENTY FIVE REP. Per Quest. No cap on how many times you did it. Then there was an extra Q to get to Exalted, but you needed to farm elites, and it was so time consuming people just kept on grinding the first one. Some quick math for you, 45,000 rep divided by 75 rep = 600 times. SIX. HUNDRED. TIMES. to get 1 mount. A bad-ass mount, and free Epic Riding skill (which back then cost 1k in the form of the epic mount itself, and this mount only cost 90g, effectively giving you epic riding with 90g instead of 1,000). But still. Who whined about that? Noone. We just sat and admired the few people who had the time, mental strength and strength of will to grind that magnificent Frost saber out. There was RESPECT. Not jealousy, or whining, or anything else of the sort. Simply respect.

I'm sure the name brand had something to do with it but if the game was EQ or UO or Final Fantasy it wouldn't have kept the players or grown REGARDLESS of the name brand. The simple fact is that it grew and became popular because it was less MMO than other MMOs PERIOD. Their was LOTS of whinig back then, christ the forums exploded when we got paladins and shamans on the opposite factions. The game EXPLODED in tbc when the game became even less MMO like and more accessible. In fact the history of the game is exactly that. The history of a game that was less and less MMO like as time went on. Ergo the label MMO is meaning when applied to wow and it's meaningless when applied to wows success.

[dryankem]

I'm glad the RNG gods smiled on you then. I've ran it 2 weeks in a row and only managed to get 2 items I already had.

Did you have any charms? I've taken 2 toons through LFR (all 5 wings) this past week and they both went from 465 (roughly) to 480 in one run. One had a bunch coins the other one didn't have any. Did you run LFR pre 5.2 or post 5.2? RNG is a bitch but they have definitely made it easier.

Have you bought the new 522 neck piece?

[Deleted]

I'm not a casual player by any means. I raid hardcore five nights a week.

I don't support the current direction of the game whatsoever. All this is simply making it horrendously slow to get an alt raid-ready in any decent amount of time. I've been stuck on my priest, unable to heal because we have too many healers, unable to switch to another DPS class I like more because then I'd be shooting into my raid group's collective foot because of the gear disadvantage. And, already raiding so much, pugging a group full of bads for last tier's raids that I already ran for months just so I can *maybe* get gear for the character to *maybe* catch up to my raid group isn't exactly appealing.

The current system may be a bit slow for returning/new players, but I would be okay to keep it as it is. On the condition that maintaining alts stops being such a ridiculous chore. I already grinded LFR for months, I already grinded dungeons, I already did all of this. Several times. I'm sick of it and I don't see any reason anyone would want to make me go through content I already did, over and over, just because they feel I need to somehow justify and "deserve" my purple pixels on each individual character.

this game was never oriented about making alts. If you remember what people were saying in the past it was " I want to have something to do on my main, and not be forced to level alts from boredom".
Enough content that you are not bored on you main - isn't it great?
Who cares about making alts raid ready anyway?
- casuals? -no they have no time for it
- normal raiders? - they have no need for it
so only hardcore raiders left, levelling alts to help with world first kills - well they are such minority, that Blizzard couldn't care less

[Stabatya]

Having recently returned to the game myself, i feel ya...

Ground upto 90 (which was actually kinda fun). Was bitterly dissapointed to find vp gear gated behind a rep grind... Even moreso when i realised they didnt have tabards. Dailies are (imo) the worst thing ever put into the game, unless they are there as a "Hey, your bored and wanna earn some gold?" optional type deal. So anyways, started grinding heroics, gave up on queues for dps, switched to heals. Did this for about 3 days before i got sick of loot not dropping... Dropped 15k on the AH to buy a couple of BoE pieces. Have done LFR the past 3 weeks with varying luck, in the end im not really motivated anymore. Im already a full tier behind everyone else, ive got no motivation to do dailies, in turn ill never raise enough rep to buy anything with vp which will in turn put me even further behind and/or make it that much harder to catch up.

People are right, this does feel alot like the gating in BC and unless something changes im probably going to spend this expansion doing what i did back then, low level pvp. Cause i can do it whenever i want, i am rewarded for doing it but not obligated to do so. Best of all, it isnt gated.

Vanilla - The best time ive ever had gaming. I raided "hardcore" and lived for world PvP.
BC - Grinding rep and heroics. I took a pass and played twinks the entire xpac.
WotLK - Spent the majority of the xpac leveling toons in PvP and casually raiding.
Cataclysm - Surprisingly refreshing, first time i raided "hardcore" since Vanilla.
Mists - Grinding rep and heroics. Pretty sure the majority of the playerbase has evolved beyond this...

[Gilian]

I got my monk in LFR in one day after dinging 90 by just doing heroics and sha. I had plenty of JP to upgrade those blue items (not possible anymore ofcourse).

Things changed but it is still easy enough to gear up, ESPECIALLY WITH LFR which you didn't have in WotLK. Less casual friendly my ass. If having LFR isn't casual friendly then I really don't know what is. There is no need for a casual player to get valor gear unless you want the best gear possible just for the sake of making your character stronger.

[Peng]

Yes, it feels wrong. We have to upgrade our gear in dumb content. LFR hc doesn´t feel like progression. We shouldn´t have to run each dungeon more than once. It´s not even useable to practice for challenge modes.


The solution:
a) Buy cheap 496 cloth boe items and cheap rings, necklaces and trinkets. Jewelry doesn´t need to have your favorite stats and it´s ok to have 2 same rings and trinkets in your pocket. Don´t equip it! It´s a very good investment for all your alts.

b) Run 60 heroics and trade jp in for honor. The new honor gear is iLvl 476 with some PvP-stats on top. Some links for comparison:
476 LFR: http://www.wowhead.com/item=86795
476 PvP: http://www.wowhead.com/item=91608

[Deleted]

480 is nothing. It's not even good to be honest.

I'm fully aware of that, it is an alt after all and my main is in the 500's, HOWEVER the OP is about it being hard to gear up, which I don't agree with, 480 gets you into all the t14 raids.

[Synstir]

Not only did I try do that bro, I also tried to show him that a good progression-raiding schedule is very doable even with a semi-bloated program (like mine, spending ~12h/day outside of my house).

Leonard, you say World of Warcraft was successfull cause it was less MMORPG-like than the previous titles (DAOC, Eve Online, Mu Online and others). That is true, however, PARTLY. One of the big reasons WoW was so successfull was its predecessor, Warcraft III and the expansion, The Frozen Throne. I can bet my left nut half of the people who logged in on WoW Day 1 (like myself) were die-hard Warcraft fans, had played the campaigns, knew the story etc.

Blizz did NOT expect WoW to grow so quickly. I remember an old interview saying their goal was 500k subscribers. And they had 2M in a year's time. 4M by the end of Vanilla. And I can assure you, during Vanilla, things only got harder, NOT easier. New raids that were brutal, AQ40 was a HUGE leap from BWL, many guilds perished progressing there. And Im not even gonna mention Naxx40, the fact I managed to kill half the bosses there while it was current is a miracle (for me).

BUT! and here's the big BUT! There was very little whining back then. Sure there was whining about rogues mages and locks in PVP, and general whining about balance, but NEVER whining about difficulty. Players just accepted what the game offered them, and dealt with it.

Do you know of the original Winterspring Frostsaber grind? Good luck grinding 0-3000, 0-6000, 0-12,000 with a repeatable quest that needed 10 MEATS (drops, not kills) from lvl 58 mobs at 75 rep per quest. SEVENTY FIVE REP. Per Quest. No cap on how many times you did it. Then there was an extra Q to get to Exalted, but you needed to farm elites, and it was so time consuming people just kept on grinding the first one. Some quick math for you, 45,000 rep divided by 75 rep = 600 times. SIX. HUNDRED. TIMES. to get 1 mount. A bad-ass mount, and free Epic Riding skill (which back then cost 1k in the form of the epic mount itself, and this mount only cost 90g, effectively giving you epic riding with 90g instead of 1,000). But still. Who whined about that? Noone. We just sat and admired the few people who had the time, mental strength and strength of will to grind that magnificent Frost saber out. There was RESPECT. Not jealousy, or whining, or anything else of the sort. Simply respect.

I don't think we can compare mop to vanilla.
The things you're saying here are okay but the background of it was different. Wow was new, there where no huge changes made to the game.. the grind was it. There was no previous situation the players got used to. In those day anybody who joined, knew what to expect and they where okay with it.

Now the situation is different, there are a lot of players who joined in wotlk and cata. That is what they are used to and that is what they paid there money for to buy the boxes and that's where the where paying sub for.

See changing that to a vanilla-like grind isn't going to cut it. Not because the grind doesn't belong in wow or anything... but because it is not the game those players paid for.
Now they have multiple toons on max level, because Blizzard provided the way to do so. And now they lovce their toons, have infested a lot of time and money in it..... and now suddenly Blizzard is taking a different path which is not really their cup of tea.

The thing is not what is it but where are we coming from and where are we now; do we get the same opportunities as when we bought the game?
That is, in my opinion where the qq starts.

[Shahad]

this game was never oriented about making alts. If you remember what people were saying in the past it was " I want to have something to do on my main, and not be forced to level alts from boredom".
Enough content that you are not bored on you main - isn't it great?
Who cares about making alts raid ready anyway?
- casuals? -no they have no time for it
- normal raiders? - they have no need for it
so only hardcore raiders left, levelling alts to help with world first kills - well they are such minority, that Blizzard couldn't care less

This game supports alts. Infact, this game IS oriented towards having alts, the alt leveling achievements are proof of that. Not mentioning the Valor buff to alts, the talk about making alt leveling easier, the leveling BoAs and so many things.
Alts are an integral part of the game, as almost every player has them. And keeping several alts raid-ready is useful for everyone, as it simply makes you more versatile. I remember in Cata when I had all ten classes at 380 ilvl, ready to fill in if we needed a particular class/spec/role. I loved that versatility, and I'm not the only one.
It's simply unfair to expect players to to the same grind again on every character, and the developpers think the same, as can be evidenced by twitter interactions. New 5-mans would go a long way to alleviate that(if only because current ones make me want to poke my eyes out when I do them to valor cap) and help returning players get into current content where the rest of the player base is.

[Tuqui-tuqui]

you can get to 471 just by getting full heroic dungeon blues so it is kind of your own fault for not trying harder. and if you seriously think nax and ulduar were "starter raids" you obviously dont understand how patches work...

Hey sorry to hijack forum. I don't mind running heroics but you can actually upgrade all the way to 471? *GASP!* As a new 90 (as of last night) this is great news!

[dryankem]

Having recently returned to the game myself, i feel ya...

Ground upto 90 (which was actually kinda fun). Was bitterly dissapointed to find vp gear gated behind a rep grind... Even moreso when i realised they didnt have tabards. Dailies are (imo) the worst thing ever put into the game, unless they are there as a "Hey, your bored and wanna earn some gold?" optional type deal. So anyways, started grinding heroics, gave up on queues for dps, switched to heals. Did this for about 3 days before i got sick of loot not dropping...

What were you doing while you queue'd up as a dps? You could have easily done one faction's dailies while in queue, sure it's not great but you're not doing anything anyways. Dailies aren't that fun true but getting to honoured (no need to go further unless you wanted mounts and rev is too much work for a couple extra potential pieces) with any faction was next to nothing and it gave people that liked to play non stop on one toon something to do, I'm sorry it had rewards for those people that you would have liked.

Before 5.2 raiders stopped doing dailies besides earning charms because rep gear quickly got replace by normal raiding gear and non raiders wouldn't have been able earn enough VP buy all the possible gear available to them even if they were rev with all factions. In 5.2 there is only one rep with dailies (which I'm already honoured with in less than a week and I've only done the dailies there 3 times) and one rep tied to the new raid.

[Deleted]

This is why the game sucks now. Because of people like this, who couldn't kill the Lich King even on normal whining and complaining that the game isn't casual enough for them.

Please stop playing my game

[fangless]

How did everyone that raided in Mists start off?

... as a fresh 90.

Buck up and get it done.

[SirPiken]

WITH LFR which you didn't have in WotLK. Less casual friendly my ass.

I WotLK I could just run unlimited heroics till i had enough justice to buy a whole set of last tier's gear, thus making me entry raid ready. If i could run LFR as many times as necessary in a week I wouldn't be here complaining.

[Enosh]

+ First raid tier LFR got bosted ALOT, and you will get atleast 2 items when you do the first 6 bosses.

I got 0, I didn't need any since I only did it for valor but that's not the point, having once in a week LFR RNG be the gear up mechanic is going to frustrate a lot of people

but yes like people have said, JP is useless for buying pve gear, just convert it all to honor and buy pvp 476 stuff, run lfr and pray the rng gods love you

because that's apparently an improvement over "buy pvp gear go do HoT heroics"

[Dalinos]

How did everyone that raided in Mists start off?

... as a fresh 90.

Buck up and get it done.

Fuck yeah! Nothing better than clearing MSV normal with Spear of Xuen, 2 blue PVP rings, green bracers, green helmet, Sha 476 boots, looking like a retarded clown with Downs Syndrome Best way to clear normals indeed ^^

[Vyreks]

Dungeons (463 stuff) Dailies & their rewards just don't waste valor/time on anything under 496, so Dominance Offensive and the new Isle of Thunder stuff.

Make sure to buy the 522 ilvl neck from Shadow Pan Assault 1250 Valor Neutral Rep required

And queue for LFR while doing said dailies once you get 460 from dungeons and daily gear.

If you have really lousy LFR loot luck, get some PvP gear (stuff with hit/expertise on it so it's still marginally PvE appropriate)

This will help get you to 470 which lets you into HoF and ToES LFR so you have way more loot opportunities & valor

It's really not that hard at all.

[killidan]

My journey through WoW started in vanilla, stopped, came to BC, stopped, came to WotLK and played till the first month or so of cata, and stopped. Now Im back. I think the only reason why I went through WotLK was because I felt I could progress in ICC, which was fantastic. It was my first "current" raid. I even made it 11/12 normal which may be nothing to you all, but it was a huge feat for me. Sindragosa was a little shit.

So here I am. I pretty much played nonstop and leveled a monk to 90 in two weeks or so with no heirlooms. Fun class, I just feel so squishy compared to my plate tanks Im used to. Im trying to gear up, a lot.

I went from i442 iirc to i454 which is a good start, but I dont have the money to drop on boe's and I dont have the valor to purchase. And on top of that -- its so hard to come by. Not complaining, I know thats the point of it. The reason why we get like 500 JP in a dungeon vs. 40-80 VP or whatever.

I just dont get why I cant buy justice gear to get into raids? It confuses me. Correct me if Im wrong but in ICC, heroics dropped i200 epics. Then you would buy JP and get I think i232 or 245 gear. This could of course get you into TOC and the others. But now JP cant even get you into LFR - the lowest difficulty of raiding, and Im just confused. Getting ready to raid took a day or two before hopping into even practice raids like Naxx or Ulduar.

Now Im farming dailies and shit (only did the dailies at the NE corner of IC iirc), and am probably going to get better gear from there than heroics and JP. And rep is so hard to come by. Holy shit. Before I could slap on a tabard and called me exalted in a bit.

People say that WoW got casual friendly, but is there a possibility that its not casual friendly as WotLK, or am I just way too nostalgiac and its blurring my memory?

edit --- extremely relevant signature :|

lol

This is the game at its easiest. The most casual friendly. Dungeons/heroics are as easy as in WotLK, if not easier. LFR is easier than Naxx2.0. It's all a big ugly FACEROLL.

1. Fasttrack easy leveling to 90
2. Dungeons
3. Heroics
4. LFR + dailies

5. You are set to go into normal raids.

I did this comfortably just playing 1-2 days a week after having started MOP more than a month late (because I hate fucking pandas and I did not buy MOP at release). I cannot believe people are complaining about the game being confusing when it is so linear, being hard when it is at its easiest, and not having enough gear when the gear is given free to all casuals...