The Alliance and its loss of Identity.

[Deleted]

I am interested to see, how Alleria will turn out, she always thought Quel'thalas was the most important thing, seeing what happened to her sister and her people in general it might actually break her, since she couldn't really cope with the minor damage the orcs did to her homeland.

She will be like "Bitch please, outland was worse, quel thalas? gtfo"

[Combatbutler]

She will be like "Bitch please, outland was worse, quel thalas? gtfo"

I am not to certain, the death of her brother and several other relatives drove her to despise every orc and she wanted every last one of them eradicated, so with the news of the devastation of her beloved homeland and the fate of her remaining relatives might be too much for her to deal with.

[Faroth]

I really feel like Alliance is just there to be something that the horde player has to fight against.

Now you're starting to get it.

I'm feeling like everything they said the Alliance was going to have coming with MoP slipped through the cracks while they got geeked out on developing the rise of the Horde rebellion and wrapped up in the excitement of who would replace Garrosh afterwards. Alliance got more action and actually doing something, but it's not looking possible for this expansion to end with a triumphant "fist pump" moment for the Alliance so much as a really cool resolution for the Horde.

And, as someone else said, the night elves were supposed to get the chance to be bad ass again. Hell, even GHOSTCRAWLER has commented on preferring NEs when they had some teeth and bite to 'em. When you got GC acknowledging the NEs have been made into wimps, that's bad.

I can only hope that the next expansion will be a strong Alliance expansion with the Army of Light involving Anduin, Velenn, a lot of draenei lore, and the return of Alleria and Turalyon.

[Romeothecat]

But 5.3 spoilers are in, and Moira is finally getting some screen time along with the Dark Irons. And best of all, she seems to have her independence, so maybe Blizzard finally is listening.

Nope. Instead we get Varian telling the dwarves to go defend their own lands from the zandalar. All of the inner conflict and racism the dwarven clans have for each other? Gone. Simply because Varian says "c'mon guys we need to work together!"
Horrible story telling on the Alliance Campaign in Pandaria

[Florena]

Nope. Instead we get Varian telling the dwarves to go defend their own lands from the zandalar. All of the inner conflict and racism the dwarven clans have for each other? Gone. Simply because Varian says "c'mon guys we need to work together!"
Horrible story telling on the Alliance Campaign in Pandaria

Right, and has nothing to so with moira stepping up tot he plate while the other two are bickering and getting things done, shaming them and inspiring them to not let suspicion and racism affect their judgement again when the least trusted of the three clans is the one to put its ass on the line to save them all. No it's all Varian.

[Deleted]

But 5.3 spoilers are in, and Moira is finally getting some screen time along with the Dark Irons. And best of all, she seems to have her independence, so maybe Blizzard finally is listening.

Missed this, where are these spoilers?

[Zuben]

I think Stormwind should've embraced an inquisitorial style of worship as the war went on, kinda like Scarlet Crusade, perhaps even some of its former members being notable figures. Orcs got darker along with Blackrocks, Dragonmaw and a Warsong Warchief too.

[Faroth]

Missed this, where are these spoilers?

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...W2-April-Fools

Intro to Blood in the Snow video gives some indication of the plot for the scenario.

[Alfryd]

I can only hope that the next expansion will be a strong Alliance expansion with the Army of Light involving Anduin, Velenn, a lot of draenei lore, and the return of Alleria and Turalyon.

One can hope, but my point earlier is that Blizzard seems to neglect giving the obvious lore to the obvious people.

Both the Forsaken and Blood Elves where woefully neglected in Wrath, considering... you know... the entire plot line revolved around the guy that decimated their nations and destroyed their lives. Yet Orcs apparently had precedent to receiving command and new lore over them. Yeah right.

I only hope that Blizzard keep to logical reasoning, and give the 'Army of Light' leadership to the correct races. Namely, Draenei (adept demon knowledge) /Night Elves(defeated burning legion twice)/Blood Elves (would imagine fel siphoning does take some mastery of addiction/knowledge) firstly, and then Humans (Anduin/Paladins/Guardian lore) /Forsaken (offshoot of humans except made from actual fel energies, so) (maybe) secondly.

[Florena]

One can hope, but my point earlier is that Blizzard seems to neglect giving the obvious lore to the obvious people.

Both the Forsaken and Blood Elves where woefully neglected in Wrath, considering... you know... the entire plot line revolved around the guy that decimated their nations and destroyed their lives. Yet Orcs apparently had precedent to receiving command and new lore over them. Yeah right.

I only hope that Blizzard keep to logical reasoning, and give the 'Army of Light' leadership to the correct races. Namely, Draenei (adept demon knowledge) /Night Elves(defeated burning legion twice)/Blood Elves (would imagine fel siphoning does take some mastery of addiction/knowledge) firstly, and then Humans (Anduin/Paladins/Guardian lore) /Forsaken (offshoot of humans except made from actual fel energies, so) (maybe) secondly.

Well, the Forsaken WERE important in Wrath at least. Or at least for a few zones until the Wrathgate, after which their story ended and kor'kron were sent by Thrall to keep an eye on things. And the blood elves got some involvement with the magic sword questline thing, Quel'delar was it? Anyway it wasn't much but at least there was something. Odd that the blood elf development mostly came form dealing with Malygos through the Sunreavers than the Scourge.

[Sills]

I can only hope that the next expansion will be a strong Alliance expansion with the Army of Light involving Anduin, Velenn, a lot of draenei lore, and the return of Alleria and Turalyon.

This is the hope that keeps my Alliance heart beating. The Army of Light will be made up of a lot of big Alliance characters with Horde supplying the background noise. At least this is still my hope for the final showdown with the Burning Legion.

[Alfryd]

Well, the Forsaken WERE important in Wrath at least. Or at least for a few zones until the Wrathgate, after which their story ended and kor'kron were sent by Thrall to keep an eye on things. And the blood elves got some involvement with the magic sword questline thing, Quel'delar was it? Anyway it wasn't much but at least there was something. Odd that the blood elf development mostly came form dealing with Malygos through the Sunreavers than the Scourge.

Yeah, there where tibits of development here and there, but like you said, a large part of it didn't make sense lore wise.

Why was the Orcs even leading the Horde charge against the Lich King at Wrathgate anyway? I personally would've liked to see a Forsaken general be developed (instead, really, we only have Sylvanas as the unessential developed forsaken). And for ICC, I definitely 100% disagree with having Tirion be neutral and lead the charge against the Lich King himself.

I think it should've been divided based on faction; Alliance be lead by Tirion and the Horde be lead by Sylvanas. And lore wise, have the two working together and both score the kill.

Not only does imparting neutrality onto Alliance factions/heroes damage the Alliance, it also damages the Horde. I'm sure Horde players are getting tired of continually interacting with Alliance culture like it was nothing. I know when I play my Horde characters, I absolutely hate going into Dalaran (even before it went back to being an Alliance city) because it felt so forced and un-Horde like. It also felt pretty strange being in Shattrath; no matter how many lore developments, the crux of the matter is that Shattrath was *invaded* by Orcs, who butchered the Draenei down to the last child. And the Draenei are ok with that?

That brings into another problem of the Draenei. I feel like they're represented to be far too passive; not only does this damage the Alliance (having a race which is basically neutral as a playable race is... lame), but it's also unrealistic. I don't believe ANYONE is so forgiving in the world to forgive individuals that butchered their race, their family and their 'safe haven'. Yet, very few Draenei actually ever display a thirst for vengeance. Instead, we're given incompetent saps that want everyone to love each other.

So please Blizzard, make the Draenei cool. They can still be devout light worshipers, but simply believe in the extermination (or atleast subjugation) of the Orcs. And I can't imagine they're too keen on Forsaken either... considering their natural disposition to hate anything fel/evil like. So really, there are plenty of reasons as to why the Draenei would hate the Horde, and very little reason for it to 'forgive' them, out side of unrealistic plot devices. Yet of course, Blizzard goes down the path of unrealistic plot devices. ¬_¬'

[Deleted]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...W2-April-Fools

Intro to Blood in the Snow video gives some indication of the plot for the scenario.

Thanks, I missed that.

That brings into another problem of the Draenei. I feel like they're represented to be far too passive; not only does this damage the Alliance (having a race which is basically neutral as a playable race is... lame), but it's also unrealistic. I don't believe ANYONE is so forgiving in the world to forgive individuals that butchered their race, their family and their 'safe haven'. Yet, very few Draenei actually ever display a thirst for vengeance. Instead, we're given incompetent saps that want everyone to love each other.

I get it now! Draenei are hippies, with peace and they're so peaceful because they're stoned all the time. As proof, I bring that draenei in Northrend who found out about humans-vrykul ancestry, he had a bunch of herbs and whatnot. It all makes sense now!

[Deleted]

That brings into another problem of the Draenei. I feel like they're represented to be far too passive; not only does this damage the Alliance (having a race which is basically neutral as a playable race is... lame), but it's also unrealistic. I don't believe ANYONE is so forgiving in the world to forgive individuals that butchered their race, their family and their 'safe haven'. Yet, very few Draenei actually ever display a thirst for vengeance. Instead, we're given incompetent saps that want everyone to love each other.

The problem with the Draenei is that they were such a bold departure from "medieval" Azeroth in terms of style that Blizz got a tanning from the player base for it. (Captain Jean Luc Picard of the USS Draenei, plus the whole Eredar retcon pissed a lot of people off)
I also recall a quote that Metzen allegedly said the outcry of their introduction put him off developing more stories for them.

The Draenei really need to start doing something (and not just fighting as soldiers for the humans at Lions Landing) and be grounded in Azeroth. We can't undo their introduction as the genie is out of the bottle, but we can at least make them belong in the world (of warcraft).

[Deleted]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...W2-April-Fools

Intro to Blood in the Snow video gives some indication of the plot for the scenario.

Ok, finally watched it, to me it seems like Varian is about to show the dwarves what working together means, so he'll teach them what to do because they're stupid. I hope I'm wrong, but this is how it looks and it makes me sad.

Instead of having the trials of the High King being about Varian learning from each race something and when he did said race putting their strengh behind him (kind of like the Black Prince learns his lessons in the future scenario, the soundfiles are on the front page, now imagine the Black Prince being Varian and the animals being the leaders of the other Alliance nations), he is the one teaching the other leaders since they're all stupid and he's so above them and this is why he gets the leadership. This kind of sucks.

[Deleted]

Ok, finally watched it, to me it seems like Varian is about to show the dwarves what working together means, so he'll teach them what to do because they're stupid. I hope I'm wrong, but this is how it looks and it makes me sad.

Instead of having the trials of the High King being about Varian learning from each race something and when he did said race putting their strengh behind him (kind of like the Black Prince learns his lessons in the future scenario, the soundfiles are on the front page, now imagine the Black Prince being Varian and the animals being the leaders of the other Alliance nations), he is the one teaching the other leaders since they're all stupid and he's so above them and this is why he gets the leadership. This kind of sucks.

This is exactly it. When you have a short lived previously impetuous human teaching a 10 thousand year old night elf the value of patience it really takes the mickey.

Varian doesn't need to be portrayed as an all knowing smartass, and ultimate warrior leader. He needs to be learning how to fit into his role as high king to be more human about it to face challenges learn lessons that will help him become high king.

[Alfryd]

Varian doesn't need to be portrayed as an all knowing smartass, and ultimate warrior leader. He needs to be learning how to fit into his role as high king to be more human about it to face challenges learn lessons that will help him become high king.

Plus, I think the playerbase would be more endeared to him if he displayed, you know, humanity.

If we HAVE to have him forced on us, I'd rather he be the student, and Tyrande/Velen/Moira etc be the teachers. Not the other way. Have the trials of the High King as, quite literally, him being taught by all the other races on how to lead and make errors, because he is a human after all.

I think it's weird that Humans are the Alliance race that is displayed as being almost divine-like, godly and without fault. When there are other races that are quite literally holy angels (basically) lol.

[Darmalus]

I really feel like Alliance is just there to be something that the horde player has to fight against.

The big problem is that the Alliance is defined by it's enemy. The original Alliance was formed (in WCII) to fight the Old Horde, quite literally it's existence is built on the existence and actions of it's enemy.

The Horde, even the Old Horde, was not defined by it's enemy. The Old Horde was a conquering machine, bent on world conquest. The Alliance simply happened to be it's current enemy, presumably just the most recent in a long list of enemies. And to make the story compelling, the Old Horde had to be strong enough that the player felt they were is serious danger of losing the war. Okay, how do you make an enemy militarily strong enough to win, but give it weaknesses that the player will accept can cause it's downfall? Give it internal, competing factions! X betrays Y in a power grab, the enemy is distracted fighting itself, and the Hero seizes the opportunity to win the day!

And there you go, one faction is dependent on the other, but not the other way around. And due to game mechanics enforcing the continued existence of both, expect the Alliance to continue to suffer from Utopia Syndrome. They get no development because they are the good guys, good guys get along, therefore there are no internal activities to focus on, and they shall remain defined by the existence and actions of their enemy.

[-Superman-]

I don't know that Alliance Lore/History will ever be as vibrant or as colorful as the Horde. It's like comparing the Amish to the Oakland Raiders.

[Peacemoon]

You have some good points. One point I would just quickly add is that I've always felt the Night Elves were made out to be allies of the Humans a little TOO much.

Night Elves should be allied to the Humans in a similar way to how Forsaken and Blood Elves are allied to the Orcs. Comrades - but still with a measure of independence. They should start off neutral.

Really the divisions in the Alliance should be much more visible. Night Elves, Worgen and Draenei on one side, Human, Dwarves and Gnomes on the other. They should quarrel and bicker.

I suppose what it comes down to is Blizzard needs the Alliance to have a 'figurehead' who leads them to counter the Warchief. Yet I don't believe I have ever seen the Night Elves swear allegience to Stormwind in the same way as the Forsaken and Blood Elves agreed to bare allegiance to the Horde.