Patch 5.3: Pushing the Horde apart

[Deleted]

Not really. As long as the Orc's and Humans ain't on the same side. All the other races are pretty much irrelevant. The corner stone of Warcraft has always been about Orc vs Human. Other races are just plot devices.

How can one person be so wrong?

[Buu]

Hopefully this means the Alliance finally gets to curbstomp the Horde into a bloody pulp and the survivors beg for mercy, leading to them and the Alliance victors storming Orgrimmar. After the pro-Horde wankfest that was Cataclysm this is a most welcome change to see the Horde firmly planted in villain territory and getting the punishment they deserve for it.

Yeah, I wish to see your face when Varian not only work together with anti-Garrosh Horde, but actually ASK for their help. And tell to Vereesa and Jaina to shut up.

---------- Post added 2013-03-20 at 03:33 PM ----------

If Blizzard can't devise a convincing scenario for the Orcs turning on Garrosh, the whole storyline will feel contrived and unrealistic (I mean, ignoring the fact that it's contrived fiction to begin with).

Garrosh isn't that popular amongst orcs as people think. His Blackrock police is feared and despised. And orc elders don't like his ways. To tell the truth only Blackrock Orcs and Twilight Hammer's remaining members see Garrosh with respect.

I really doubt any Frostwolf will side with him.

[Scummer]

Garrosh isn't that popular amongst orcs as people think. His Blackrock police is feared and despised. And orc elders don't like his ways. To tell the truth only Blackrock Orcs and Twilight Hammer's remaining members see Garrosh with respect.

Based on what?

Throughout Cata we saw so many engagements with Orcs yet only the Frostwolves appeared to be the least be bothered, the rest were quite zealous about it actually.
During ToW after Theramore was destroyed the Orcs went crazy celebrating Garrosh and cheering his name with Orgrimmar being packed with revellers. Now during MoP so far we still don't see any sizeable group of Orcs disagree or condemn him.
Garrosh's secret police are just there to mop up the few that don't already like him.

[Every Pwny]

The alliance is going to be doing something on their own and not just reacting to the horde? I could be shocked if that is true.

[Immitis]

I am saying it right now.

The horde and alliance will both fracture, and races from both sides will join both factions. It only makes sense. You have factions of Dwarfs, Gnomes, Humans, Panada's (hint), etc.. that will easily side with the Horde. The same as you have factions of Troll's, Tauren, Blood Elves, Goblins who will side with Alliance.

Not to mention you have all new player models and animations coming. Nothing can generate the money for Blizzard, than Alliance getting Horde races, and Horde getting Alliances races. The race transfer cash will be flowing in. Not to mention I think it would be very interesting from a lore perspective. Even Wrathion speaks of both factions uniting.

Although I think they will remain seperate factions, perhaps Horde having to be rebuilt. But it only makes sense races will split away.

(all this for next expansion of course)

no you have one faction of gnomes who would join the horde, the dark irons hate the orcs just as much if not more than the bronzebeards due to the orcs invading the dark irons homes. there is NO human faction that would side with the horde the only humans that would do so are few and far between mercenaries who despite hating the horde will do anything for some gold.

the only race in the alliance that would make any sense joining the horde is leper gnomes because they have already sided with the forsaken and at that point they are green gnomes basically goblins with smaller ears.

[Buu]

Based on what?

Based on various Horde quests since Cataclysm where various Orcs from various tribes actually make anti-Garrosh speeches?
Geez, not even his greatest General is supporting him, anymore. During the Dominance Offensive quests is said more than once that Nazgrin is holding information from Garrosh to protect the other leaders.

[Falrinn]

Based on various Horde quests since Cataclysm where various Orcs from various tribes actually make anti-Garrosh speeches?
Geez, not even his greatest General is supporting him, anymore. During the Dominance Offensive quests is said more than once that Nazgrin is holding information from Garrosh to protect the other leaders.

I know Baine was a little more trusting of Nazgrim's word then would be plausible if Nazgrim was just another of Garrosh's goons, but I don't believe anything is stated explicitly.

Still, I'd be willing to bet Nazgrim will end up siding with the rebellion in the end. Perhaps it will be this defection that makes Garrosh realize that the rebellion isn't just a brief revolt that can be easily quashed and in fact his status as Warchief is in serious and immediate jeopardy.

[Arrashi]

The big question in my mind is: why do the Orcs (besides the Blackrock) turn against Garrosh? It doesn't matter how much Vol'jin or Baine gets pissed at Garrosh, if anyone names themselves Warchief the Orcs have to be on board. And I don't think it's as simple as "Thrall convinces them to". Garrosh kills Saurfang? Rexxar names himself Warchief? Garrosh kills Aggra, and Thrall's child? (How dark would that be?)

If Blizzard can't devise a convincing scenario for the Orcs turning on Garrosh, the whole storyline will feel contrived and unrealistic (I mean, ignoring the fact that it's contrived fiction to begin with).

I don't know but killing aggra and thrall's kid would be much more of redemption story for garrosh ( and fixing all that go'el bullshit for thrall), so i guess he would be cheered as war hero, not rebelled against.

[Kalcheus]

Based on various Horde quests since Cataclysm where various Orcs from various tribes actually make anti-Garrosh speeches?
Geez, not even his greatest General is supporting him, anymore. During the Dominance Offensive quests is said more than once that Nazgrin is holding information from Garrosh to protect the other leaders.

It's not just about Nazgrim. It's about the rank-and-file orcs. Or the Orc "heroes". There has to be a blatant and compelling reason for all Orcs (again, excluding Blackrock) to turn on Garrosh. Secret information and threats delivered only to Alliance or Vol'jin won't cut it.

[Buu]

I know Baine was a little more trusting of Nazgrim's word then would be plausible if Nazgrim was just another of Garrosh's goons, but I don't believe anything is stated explicitly.

Still, I'd be willing to bet Nazgrim will end up siding with the rebellion in the end. Perhaps it will be this defection that makes Garrosh realize that the rebellion isn't just a brief revolt that can be easily quashed and in fact his status as Warchief is in serious and immediate jeopardy.

Well, it IS stated EXPLICITLY by that Hozen who transport you from Krasarang to Kun-Lai. His lines mention that both Naz is holding information from Garrosh, and that when time comes his loyalty is to the Horde, not the Warchief.

[Thulvaso]

Based on a a couple of tweets from Kosak Baine will be there in 5.3 with sylvanas a bit after.

[Deathgoose]

It might just be a slip of the tongue. Every time anyone's talked about 5.3 so far, they've all said that Varian would bring the Alliance together, and Garrosh would tear the Horde apart. Not the former doing both.

But eh, I was really hoping for a racial storyline at some point leading up to the rebellion, to seed the action (or inaction) that your race will take against Garrosh. Forsaken players would help their queen to kick the Kor'kron out of the Undercity, blood elves would uncover the identity of their Garrosh supporters (Aethas or otherwise) with the help of Rommath's magic, trolls would fortify the Darkspear Isles with Thrall and Rexxar while Vol'jin is still MIA, night elves would make some gains in Ashenvale with Tyrande and secure a good point of entry into Orgrimmar, etc.

That's kind if how I interpreted it as well.

Because if Varian becomes the savior of both the Alliance and the Horde? That would be... well I guess it would be clear that a certain Blizz dev had changed his self-identification from a certain green skinned gentleman to one with a more stately pink skin.

[yetgdhfgh]

Based on a a couple of tweets from Kosak Baine will be there in 5.3 with sylvanas a bit after.

So sylvanas might turn up if blizz has time

which tells me dont expect to see her in mop at all

5.3 is all gonna be about the tauren and the trolls

[Immitis]

So sylvanas might turn up if blizz has time

which tells me dont expect to see her in mop at all

5.3 is all gonna be about the tauren and the trolls

i dont think it means she wont turn up in mists just it might be in 5.3 or it might be in 5.4

[Thulvaso]

So sylvanas might turn up if blizz has time

which tells me dont expect to see her in mop at all

5.3 is all gonna be about the tauren and the trolls

Doesn't bother me as long as I see some Darkspear rebellion action

[Scummer]

Based on various Horde quests since Cataclysm where various Orcs from various tribes actually make anti-Garrosh speeches?

Geez, not even his greatest General is supporting him, anymore. During the Dominance Offensive quests is said more than once that Nazgrin is holding information from Garrosh to protect the other leaders.

Give me these various Horde quests during Cata.

Nazgrim's one guy. People show this notion of mentioning big Orc leaders as "evidence" that the majority of Orcs dislike Garrosh despite the fact every source claims otherwise. The vast majority of Orcs and the Horde are grunts and everytime we see these grunts in action they are all blindly loyal supporters of Garrosh.
As I mentioned before read the part in ToW after Theramore is destroyed. The whole of Orgrimmar is is parading.

[Kalcheus]

* Garrosh Hellscream: great warchief or greatest warchief?

* Don't get me wrong, <name>, I like Thrall. He was a strong leader, but I don't think he was cut out to lead the Horde. Not in a time of war!

Kingslayer Orkus, Hero of the Horde
RIP

[Deleted]

It makes absolutely zero lore sense why some races would side w/ the opposite faction. Just off the top of my head, Blood elves were exploited and murdered by the alliance in droves which is why they joined the horde. For protection. Right now, they are very unhappy with Garrosh, but that doesn't mean they would run to the alliance. If anything, they would just break off as a separate faction.

What would night elves want with the horde? What self-respecting orc would go kneel before Varian? Worgens are going to side with the horde, home of the forsaken? Do you not remember Gilneas? etc, etc, etc. I mean, come on. If anything these races would break off into different factions, not run into the enemy's open arms.

Orcs vs. Human is what started this franchise and it's very doubtful Blizzard is going to ruin that integrity.



Pandarens are completely different than the other races in Azeroth. They are relatively new to the whole horde/alliance thing. They don't have the long running rivalries of the other races.

Although I'm not sure about the idea of giving most races to both sides, here's an idea for you:
Blood elves - High elves
Darkspear Trolls - Some other trolls
Horde Tauren - Grimtotem Tauren
Sylvannas Forsaken - those rotted brain ones or whatever they're called in the forsaken starting zone
Horde orcs - Frostwolf Orcs
Goblins there's really no need to say, as there's plenty of goblins that could go to either side for profit.

Ironforge/Wildhammer Dwarves - Dark Iron Dwarves
Alliance Gnomes - Gnomeregan radiated gnomes
Stormwind Humans - Defias Humans
Night elves - Night elf Highbourne (a part of night elves decides to join their blood elf cousins after seeing the wonders magic do, not unthinkable)
Gilneas worgen - freed Northrend worgen (from under control of LK)
The draenei don't even need 2 factions truly, as they already helped the blood elves, so they're more neutral then any Alliance race.

[Kalcheus]

Although I'm not sure about the idea of giving most races to both sides, here's an idea for you:
Darkspear Trolls - Some other trolls

Witherbark trolls (in Arathi), who join with the Alliance out of fear of the Forsaken's advance. Alliance welcome them as a counter for the same reason.

[Rhlor]

Although I'm not sure about the idea of giving most races to both sides, here's an idea for you:


Alliance Gnomes - Gnomeregan radiated gnomes
Stormwind Humans - Defias Humans

race.

Leper gnome are already part of the horde in one way or another

The Humans of the syndicate are mostly citizens of Alterac led by nobles and royal family of Alterac, if I am correct. they were and may be members of the Horde