Blood / High Elves becoming a neutral race

[Lumineus]

Introduce Silver Covenant High Elves for Alliance, capital the new Dalaran
Introduce Alterac Humans for Horde, capital Alterac
Rebuild Stromgarde or retake Gilneas for the Alliance to balance the addition of a new Horde faction in Lordaeron

Horde get an "evil" race similar to an existing Alliance race which has historically been allied with the Horde (2nd war, became Syndicate after, never rejoined Alliance)
Alliance get a "good" race similar to an existing Horde race which has historically been allied with the Alliance (2000 years of friendship and co-operation)

Problem solved and nobody can possibly complain.

(in b4 complainers)

That'd never happen because Humans ARE the Alliance. Orcs VS Humans. Besides that, Alterac only joined the Horde because of Deathwing, and that was the old Fel Horde. Most of them went on to become the Syndicate, which favors Orc slavery and is hostile to the Horde.

It would be far more likely to be dwarves, since they already have a slightly evil, cantankerous subfaction that fits in with the Horde. It might even be why Blizzard picked Dwarves to be the first race to get a new model, despite Orcs and Humans being the main races, and looking just as old and clunky. Pair them with High Elves to reap the race change $$$, then again when the new human model is released and a lot of people change back.

[The Madgod]

I agree with you, thats seems what probably will happen (except Lorthremar becoming leader of the Horde, I don´t see that happening), thats what everyone is expecting. This is way them becoming neutral seems more fun xD

I inherently disagree with that. It breaks a lot of the lore that we've seen already established... from warcraft III all the way up to Mists of Pandaria, Blizzard has made it clear that the sin'dorei's place is no longer within the Alliance. Going against years of established lore is not fun to me.

I don´t expect in any way that massive reroll, thats why at the end of this expansion or at the beggining of the next it´s the best moment to do this. Blood Elves ''BOOOM'' was back on BC, now they´re about to show us the new models of the old races (correct me if Im wrong, but I think that Blood Elves and Draeneis are not included) people will make new characters of the old races with the new models, not the old Blood / High Elf model.

All TBC models are only slightly higher res than classic models. They'll be updated too. The HD models / textures came in with Wrath of the Lich King and that's where they want the models to be.

I have to agree with you, this seems the normal path of events, Blood Elves making his ally with the Horde more strong than ever. But WoW lore have a lot of crazy stuff, and Blood High / Elves becoming neutral not seems to me one of the craziest.

You say that they hate Alliance, I agree, but that don´t matter to them when Varian want them on the Alliance. Its much more crazy that they get on the Horde, because if exist one race that Blood Elves hate about any other, those are Trolls (you can say, Amani trolls, not Darkspear, they will hate them the same). The same go to Orcs, they fight against them on the Second War. Forsaken? they only accept them because they were in big need of help, do you really think if back on BC, instead of the Forsaken, Night Elves (or any other Alliance race) were the ones that lend a hand to Blood Elves, they wont accept it and join the Alliance?

So wait, you're suggesting that Varian, by his glorious chin, will change the minds of thousands of elves to leave the Horde that had sheltered them when they had nobody to turn to while the Alliance sent spies and the night elves to sabotage the sin'dorei. Let's also remember the race of the two men who wanted to commit a genocide of their people, with one being somewhat successful in that endeavor. Arthas and Garithos burned those bridges long ago.

Even in your hypothetical scenario, I don't think that they would have gone back into the Alliance so easily. They went into the horde out of desparation, and their atrocities happened a long time ago and on a much lesser scale. Where was the Alliance when they needed help the most? Trying to kill them. They were their allies who not only ignored their plight, but attempted to destroy them while they were vulnerable. Betrayal stings far more than an enemy attacking you. If that enemy shows a new leaf, then you can trust them far easier than someone who had betrayed you saying "I'm sorry for betraying you, I'm trustworthy, I promise!" You can say "Well that was one man" but impressions matter. Do you think it matters to the blood elves that Garithos was just one man? There's lore saying "No, probably not."

[Deleted]

The High Elves turned into Blood Elves, why can't people accept that?

Why should we reintroduce High Elves then? Shall we reintroduce the Old Horde as well? Heck, let's go back to Warcraft 2.
Orcs, Trolls, Ogres and Goblins vs Humans, High Elves, Dwarves and Gnomes. Yeah, let's revert all the changes ever made!

[Deathgoose]

The High Elves turned into Blood Elves, why can't people accept that?

Why should we reintroduce High Elves then? Shall we reintroduce the Old Horde as well? Heck, let's go back to Warcraft 2.
Orcs, Trolls, Ogres and Goblins vs Humans, High Elves, Dwarves and Gnomes. Yeah, let's revert all the changes ever made!

You say that sarcastically, but as an Alliance player, I'd be fine with BE's becoming a neutral faction and Horde getting Ogres.

[Deleted]

do you really think if back on BC, instead of the Forsaken, Night Elves (or any other Alliance race) were the ones that lend a hand to Blood Elves, they wont accept it and join the Alliance?

Have you even played the Blood Elf starting zone? The Night Elves were there! They were spying on the people and manipulating them.

It's not wonder the Blood Elves see the Alliance as untrustworthy. They have been betrayed time and time again. At least the Horde was always clear about their motives. And back in Warcraft 2 it was mostly the Trolls they had a fight with. Seeing as how the Forest Trolls are no longer a part of the Horde, I don't see why the Blood Elves should have any hard feelings towards the Horde.

Didn't the High Elves and Humans fight eachother as well back way before the Human Kingdoms united? It was only much later that the High Elves and Humans united against the Trolls, and in turn the High Elves taught the Humans how to weild magic.

---------- Post added 2013-03-20 at 06:11 PM ----------

You say that sarcastically, but as an Alliance player, I'd be fine with BE's becoming a neutral faction and Horde getting Ogres.

Actually, I would be fine with that as well. I'd love to play an Ogre.

But I just don't think turning Blood Elves into a neutral race is a smart business move. If Blizzard gives in to the fans like that, soon enough we have fans demanding every race to be neutral. And when that happens, Warcraft loses its identity. I'm not saying it can't happen, but Blizzard should make that decision for themselves when they think it makes for a great story, not because the fans want it.

[rnbwtrout]

next xpac:

high elves for the alliance.

dark iron dwarves for the horde.

you heard it here first. they've been setting this up since cata when what's his face dwarf king of ironforge got turned into stone/diamond w/e. alleria is coming back; she's too popular/badazz to just sit around in some city somewhere. she's gonna get a whole faction to rule: high elves.

everyone forgets that there's this whole unresolved 'who should be sitting on the throne in ironforge' thingy. it'll get resolved in the next xpac. the dark iron dwarves aren't gonna like the resolution. they gonna turn horde because of it.

bam - horde and alliance happy campers.

[Deleted]

You say that sarcastically, but as an Alliance player, I'd be fine with BE's becoming a neutral faction and Horde getting Ogres.

Such a great idea, hope blizzard hires you and the guy who made this topic. World of humans vs monster inc.

[Talen]

It would be far more likely to be dwarves, since they already have a slightly evil, cantankerous subfaction that fits in with the Horde. It might even be why Blizzard picked Dwarves to be the first race to get a new model, despite Orcs and Humans being the main races, and looking just as old and clunky. Pair them with High Elves to reap the race change $$$, then again when the new human model is released and a lot of people change back.

These would be the same Dwarves whose Queen is based in Iron forge and whose home was invaded by Orcs from the Horde?

EJL

[foxHeart]

Neutral blood elves? Never. High elves for the Alliance? Unlikely but possible.

[Deathgoose]

Such a great idea, hope blizzard hires you and the guy who made this topic. World of humans vs monster inc.

I'm not sure if serious or snark, but if the latter, I'm just saying that my panties wouldn't get bunched up in a knot if they took the BE faction, made it neutral (Call the Alliance version High Elves if you want, they are still the same thing other than the in game aesthetics of the eyes), and gave Horde Ogres to balance out the number of faction specific races.

Am I saying they will do this? Nope, and don't expect it.
Would I be fine with it? Yep.

[Bendita]

If blizzard introduced high elves for the alliance I feel that the balance between the two factions will shift. According to Realmpop.com Blood elves make up a big part of the horde. Some Blood elves players would shift back the alliance to finally make their party with Legolas and Gimli. Instead of having the close to even division we have with our factions, I see the alliance outnumbering the horde.

I don't see why we have to make the Blood Elves neutral. When they update the models they can make a new thinner happier model for the high elves and give them to the alliance. To balance it we can give orges to the horde. Both of these races feel like they should have been part of these factions long ago

The high elf starting zone can be in Northern Lordaeron (the blocked off area above the plaguelands) and the orge in Duskwallow Marsh (With Theramore gone the Orges can take over. Dire Maul could work as well). There is no reason to make Silvermoon neutral, the high elves have no interest in reconnecting with the blood elves.

And so don't feel like we get two boring old races, they can also introduce a new neutral race.

[Northem]

Introduce Silver Covenant High Elves for Alliance, capital the new Dalaran
Introduce Alterac Humans for Horde, capital Alterac
Rebuild Stromgarde or retake Gilneas for the Alliance to balance the addition of a new Horde faction in Lordaeron

Horde get an "evil" race similar to an existing Alliance race which has historically been allied with the Horde (2nd war, became Syndicate after, never rejoined Alliance)
Alliance get a "good" race similar to an existing Horde race which has historically been allied with the Alliance (2000 years of friendship and co-operation)

Problem solved and nobody can possibly complain.

(in b4 complainers)

It's the best I've read in all day

---------- Post added 2013-03-20 at 09:01 PM ----------

The Alliance NEEDS the High Elves as a playable race as soon as possible, it is simply a matter of identity with the faction. To do this, they can choose several solutions:

1) Add the High Elves as a race entirely new and independent of the Blood Elves (the best option and also the most complex)

2) Make a new neutral race: Thalassian Elves who can choose to be Blood Elves or High Elves (the more predictable)

And for the Horde could choose:

1) Add a race already known but still not playable (as ogres)

2) Become another race of the Alliance to neutral (like dwarves) so that they may belong to the Horde (Dark Iron dwarves)

---------- Post added 2013-03-20 at 09:02 PM ----------

Both races should be as different as possible, since in fact there are enough distinguishing features between the two races (aside of the demonic brightness of the eyes of the blood elves of course):

• The Blood Elves are more tanned/reddish vs The High Elves are paler and more skinny.
• The Blood Elves are more muscular vs The High Elves have a more normal complexion.
• The Blood Elves have their bodies covered in tattoos and ornaments vs The High Elves are more sober and spend more unnoticed.
• The Blood Elves have a mindset more transgressive and indecorous vs The High Elves are more inhibited and decent (implying different animations).
• The Blood Elves have histrionic hairstyles with bright colors vs The High Elves have more traditional hairstyles light colored and nothing flashy.
• The Blood Elves have a more obsessive and compulsive mentality vs High Elves are more patient and calm (which implies different voices and different ways of speaking)
• and so on...

In conclusion: If Blizzard wants can give individual models to the High Elves, although they already have shown their contempt for them on more than one occasion (as evidenced by the fact that everything relating to the High Elves in game are mere placeholders based on the Blood Elves).

For more information about the High/Blood elves go here or visit this thread.

[Stormdash]

Making them different "races" at all would be a retcon of all existing lore right up until the instant the content went live. Not going to happen. They are no more different races than are Stormwind humans and wastewander humans. Or before you prattle on about fel energy, no more different than Human Warlocks are from any other humans. I mean, are smog-ridden Angelinos not human because of the tainted atmosphere they soak in?

The only way that this will ever or should ever happen -- both from the Watsonian (lore-driven) standpoint and the Doylist (in an MMO, development cost, development cost, development cost) standpoint is Quel'thalas goes neutral, playable Thalassians, the reunified Sin'dorei with eye color of player choosing, can pick a faction, and the Horde get a new playable race to compensate. There is enough Alliance interest in playing Thalassian that Blizzard could get by with a "only Horde get an entirely new race" roll-out without a lot of problems. I'm not sure who that isn't a solution for, other than Northem.

[Xtacle]

Would I like to see High Elves playable for the Alliance? Yeah sure. Do I think it will happen? No.

There are High Elves working with the Alliance, around 20,000 according to the Wiki, and surprisingly from what I have read that is near the same numbers as Night Elves and Gnomes in the Alliance respectively. So the lore IS there to support it, but I don't think Blizzard will ever act on it for a multitude of reasons; like the slight homogenization it would cause between the 2 "distinct" factions.

Also all of the ideas of making the Blood Elves a neutral race at this point is just silly for obvious reasons. If Blizzard were to add High Elves they would just give the Horde an extra race like Ogres while tossing the High Elves to the Alliance. I guess it also doesn't help that I just plain despise the idea of playable Neutral factions, I was vehemently against the addition of Pandarans for a playable race, while I was completely fine with an Expansion being based around Pandaria.

[Darkarath]

I inherently disagree with that. It breaks a lot of the lore that we've seen already established... from warcraft III all the way up to Mists of Pandaria, Blizzard has made it clear that the sin'dorei's place is no longer within the Alliance. Going against years of established lore is not fun to me.

But the lore is there to break it ¡¡ What sense has to just follow the normal path of events?

I have to desagree with ''Blizzard making clear that the Blood Elves are no longer within the Alliance''. Patch 5.1 is an example, and Blood Elves NPCs saying: ''We were better with the Alliance'' is another good example.

All TBC models are only slightly higher res than classic models. They'll be updated too. The HD models / textures came in with Wrath of the Lich King and that's where they want the models to be.

I hope you´re right. I´ll love to see Blood Elves with Nozdormu´s model. But even if that happen, with so many races revamped, I don´t think that all the people will focus on Blood / High Elves (just my opinion).

So wait, you're suggesting that Varian, by his glorious chin, will change the minds of thousands of elves to leave the Horde that had sheltered them when they had nobody to turn to while the Alliance sent spies and the night elves to sabotage the sin'dorei. Let's also remember the race of the two men who wanted to commit a genocide of their people, with one being somewhat successful in that endeavor. Arthas and Garithos burned those bridges long ago.

I´m not suggesting it, patch 5.1 told us that, Varian himself said that was pretty close to come to terms with Blood Elves. He don´t need to changue the minds of thousands, just the mind of Lorthremar.

Night Elves send spies, of course they did ¡¡ It´s a long time since they didn´t have news from Blood Elves.

Arthas means scourge, it kill as many humans as elves, I don´t think that Blood Elves blame humans for the scourge. Garithos it´s a crazy human that did a lot of damage to the elves, but it´s just one men. Darkhan was one of them and did a lot of damage too.

Even in your hypothetical scenario, I don't think that they would have gone back into the Alliance so easily. They went into the horde out of desparation, and their atrocities happened a long time ago and on a much lesser scale. Where was the Alliance when they needed help the most? Trying to kill them. They were their allies who not only ignored their plight, but attempted to destroy them while they were vulnerable. Betrayal stings far more than an enemy attacking you. If that enemy shows a new leaf, then you can trust them far easier than someone who had betrayed you saying "I'm sorry for betraying you, I'm trustworthy, I promise!" You can say "Well that was one man" but impressions matter. Do you think it matters to the blood elves that Garithos was just one man? There's lore saying "No, probably not."

I agree that Blood Elves don´t care about Garithos was just one man. But Trolls are not just one, were thousands of them, and they probably kill as many elves as the scourge (in a lot of years more, thats true).

What help could the Elves recibe when the Scourge attack? Lordaeron was destroyed, and probably at Storwind they don´t even know what is happening. Then Garithos shows up and destroy a Alliance of 2000 years. But even today Elves remember when they were with the Alliance. Again, patch 5.1 show us that.

[Talen]

Introduce Silver Covenant High Elves for Alliance, capital the new Dalaran
Introduce Alterac Humans for Horde, capital Alterac

Why would Alterac, a nation who fought the Horde, a nation whose people don't like Orcs, a nation whose people were disgusted when their King turned on the Alliance, side with the Horde? And the Syndicate are in the same boat,

Same thing with the dark irons. They've either allied with Ironforge or are fighting the Orc invaders in Blackrock. Why would they join the Horde? Or leper Gnomes? You get some in Horde lands..yes. They are usually slaves. And there aren't many of them. Northrend Worgen? Would the Horde accept free agents and loyal followers of the Lich King?

Leaving aside the "gameplay trumps lore" aspect, there aren't that many Alliance races (or rather, factions based on Alliance races) that would work for the Horde. Blizzard shoehorned the BElfs into the Horde out of necessity. And while High Elves are a nice step for the Alliance, the Horde counterpart can't be a new race. It'd need to be an Alliance race based faction of some sort. In game, right now, there is only one such faction that could join the Horde...Highborne Night Elves.

EJL

[Thelxi]

If blizzard introduced high elves for the alliance I feel that the balance between the two factions will shift.

I agree. Blizzard admitted at the time that blood elves helped bring more more players to the horde helping balance the two factions. On the other hand though the game is much older now and while many would switch to Helves, horde will still have the Belves, so I don't think it will become as unbalanced again.

[Elegiac]

The High Elves turned into Blood Elves, why can't people accept that?

Yeah, should start telling those damn developers that keep putting High Elf NPCs in places like Violet Rise...

[Rhaktor]

The Horde got the blonde elves, get over it.

[Obelisk Kai]

The Horde got the blonde elves, get over it.

Indeed. I've been seeing variations of this thread for years, ever since Blood Elves were announced for the Horde back at that Blizzcon. Players had it all sussed out once they were told each faction would get a new race, Alliance would get High Elves and Horde would get Ogres and were more than a little surprised when news of blood elves Horde side began to leak.

And you know what? I'm tired of it. I firmly believe that it's not the race you want, because after all if you wanted to play this sort of Elf that badly you'd be a Blood Elf, it's the stereotypical fantasy trope of the Dwarf, High Elf and Human standing against the monsters. The people who agitate for this simply cannot accept the inversion of this trope, that the High Elves stand with the 'monsters' in this Universe.

Hypothetically what would happen if Blizzard did this? Do you think the overall reaction would be one of joy? I'll tell you what will happen, Blizzard will be attacked for being lazy first and foremost.

"Lol Blizz you just repackaged the Blood Elf model and called it a new race". (And why wouldn't it be the same model? High Elves and Blood Elves are the same race, the division is cultural rather biological)
They'd be attacked for being lazy and lacking imagination. The majority would ask why the effort was spent on High Elves when it could have spent on a new race that offered a genuine new option, aesthetic and playing experience. And you know what? The majority would be correct, it would be a lazy offering.

And what is the story hook of adding High Elves? They scrapped Pandaren back in TBC because they had no connection to Outland. What justifies all the attention the Elves will get? The few hints we have point at a return to space in the next expansion, Blizzard is much more likely to focus on the Draenei storywise.

It's time to let this one go. High Elves will never be playable, and these posts are simply futile exercises in wish fulfuilment. There are simply too many reasons NOT to allow it, mostly to do with it compromising portions of the game's integrity.

The integrity of Blizzard's reputation for not offering a cheap throw back as a new race.
The integrity of the factions offering distinct and varied choices within each context(Humans and Night Elves...and arguably Draenei females being the 'pretty' races Alliance side), and respecting the distinctiveness of each faction brought by their unique membership.
The integrity of faction balance, such a move over the longer term would probably tilt the population overall back towards the Alliance.
The integrity of the story, as it would probably take a massive unplanned detour to implemented this change.

If you want to play a Elf, play Horde. Otherwise just accept that Azeroth is Azeroth and not Middle Earth.