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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Xtacle View Post
    There are High Elves working with the Alliance, around 20,000 according to the Wiki, and surprisingly from what I have read that is near the same numbers as Night Elves and Gnomes in the Alliance respectively. So the lore IS there to support it, but I don't think Blizzard will ever act on it for a multitude of reasons; like the slight homogenization it would cause between the 2 "distinct" factions.
    Minor correction, these numbers are entirely non canon, the only population number we have for high elves is 1% of the original elven population of Quel'thalas.

  2. #42
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Minor correction, these numbers are entirely non canon, the only population number we have for high elves is 1% of the original elven population of Quel'thalas.
    Also a good point arguing against the High Elves.

    Yes, you're seeing a lot of High Elves now in the Silver Covenant. What if I told you that the Silver Covenant is basicaly 'IT', a few hundred (at most) High Elves forming the core of what remains of their population. Population is the number one reason 'lorewise' Blizzard offers against High Elves, there simply aren't enough of them. What you see in Dalaran and on the Isle of Thunder is likely 90% of the High Elves left in the world.

    This in a game where the backstory of half the races seems to be they are facing extinction, the High Elf population has been singled out as being too low to support a player race in the context of the game world. Think about it.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2013-03-21 at 12:12 PM.

  3. #43
    Herald of the Titans Northem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhaktor View Post
    The Horde got the blonde elves, get over it.
    I will correct yourself: "The Horde got the demonic elves", stay with your gay elves!

    In the Alliance we already have the authentic and pure High Elves, they only need become a playable race and receive their due importance. And that, is a historical obligation, in the same way that the ogres belong to the Horde and should be playable too.

    Ogres for the Horde and High Elves for the Alliance! now!

    For Lordaeron! Glory to the Quel'dorei! Long live Alleria!

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    I will correct yourself: "The Horde got the demonic elves", stay with your gay elves!

    In the Alliance we already have the authentic and pure High Elves, they only need become a playable race and receive their due importance. And that, is a historical obligation, in the same way that the ogres belong to the Horde and should be playable too.

    Ogres for the Horde and High Elves for the Alliance! now!
    Well let me correct you then ;P

    The horde got the pragmatic, slightly tainted high elves, while the Alliance has the most stubborn and selfrighteous ones.

  5. #45
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    I will correct yourself: "The Horde got the demonic elves", stay with your gay elves!

    In the Alliance we already have the authentic and pure High Elves, they only need become a playable race and receive their due importance. And that, is a historical obligation, in the same way that the ogres belong to the Horde and should be playable too.

    Ogres for the Horde and High Elves for the Alliance! now!

    For Lordaeron! Glory to the Quel'dorei! Long live Alleria!
    Why?

    What pressing reason is there for this, to fly in the face of all precedent and logic and to devote time better spent on coming up with actual new races people want to play, beyond your personal wish fulfilment of the Man the Dwarf and the Elf?

    There is none.

    Oh and I wouldn't like to be the forum moderator who has to to explain to the majority of Alliance forum posters why the Horde got a brand new graphically updated race in Ogres whilst they got a knock off Horde race.

    The more this topic comes up the more annoyed I get. Can't you grasp that six years after TBC came out, and seven and a half since Belves were announced for the Horde, that this is not going to happen!

  6. #46
    Herald of the Titans Northem's Avatar
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    And remember: the Silver Covenant is only a small representation of the High Elves of the Alliance, they are only the High Elves of the Kingdom of Dalaran.

    When Alleria come back and take command of the High Elves, the bulk of the Quel'dorei of Greenwood will follow the example of Vereesa and her Silver Covenant: it's time to fight, it's time to defend what is ours! For Quel'Thalas!

  7. #47
    I don't think that would happen simply because there are a lot of people who play Horde Blood elves that actually want to be Horde. Removing them from the Horde would cause some people to get mad and quit.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    And remember: the Silver Covenant is only a small representation of the High Elves of the Alliance, they are only the High Elves of the Kingdom of Dalaran.

    When Alleria come back and take command of the High Elves, the bulk of the Quel'dorei of Greenwood will follow the example Vereesa and her Silver Covenant: it's time to fight, it's time to defend what is ours! For Quel'Thalas!
    Stop using non canon sources for your arguments, there are no greenwood high elves.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post
    Also a good point arguing against.

    Yes, you're seeing a lot of High Elves now in the Silver Covenant. What if I told you that the Silver Covenant is basicaly 'IT', a few hundred (at most) High Elves forming the core of what remains of their population. Population is the number one reason 'lorewise' Blizzard offers against High Elves, there simply aren't enough of them. What you see in Dalaran and on the Isle of Thunder is likely 90% of the High Elves left in the world.

    This in a game where the backstory of half the races seems to be they are facing extinction, the High Elf population has been singled out as being too low to support a player race in the context of the game world. Think about it.
    There aren't that many Darkspear Trolls either. I'm not really sure what their exact numbers are but I would assume that its not much more than High Elves.

  10. #50
    Herald of the Titans Northem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    I don't think that would happen simply because there are a lot of people who play Horde Blood elves that actually want to be Horde. Removing them from the Horde would cause some people to get mad and quit.
    No one has spoken to touch anything concerning the Blood Elves, nothing.

    All you need to do is give a new characteristic model to the High Elves and make them playable, with their own starting area, their race leader, their racial mounts, their symbol (the silver unicorn) and a greater involvement in the Alliance.

  11. #51
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    There aren't that many Darkspear Trolls either. I'm not really sure what their exact numbers are but I would assume that its not much more than High Elves.
    The Darkspear Trolls maintain a racial capital in the Echo Isles, a Quarter in Orgrimmar, settlements in Zangarmarsh in Outland, villages in Desolace and Durotar and a major presence in Ashenvale Forest and in Stranglethorn Vale. By contrast the High Elves are a smattering in Outland, the occasional NPC in Stormwind and the Silver Covenant in Dalaran.

    In game evidence suggests a much larger and viable Darkspear Troll population compared to the High Elves.

  12. #52
    Herald of the Titans Northem's Avatar
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    When we talk about making the High Elves a playable race for the Alliance, there are always the same problems, but each of which is easily refutable, resulting in that there would be no real problems for the High Elves become a playable race (except for the jealousy that Horde players can feel when that happens).

    *** The High Elves are identical to the Blood Elves ***

    First, this statement is totally false. The absorption of fel magic altered the genetic structure of the Blood Elves irreversibly changing it forever and, though they consumed little vile energy, the demonic energy mutated each of its cells. This mutation is irreversible, permanent and hereditary: the Blood Elves and their descendants will never return to its previous state even if they no longer absorb fel magic and replace it by any other type of energy; the Blood Elves will be an accursed race forever. These differences between the High Elves and Blood Elves can be seen in three different aspects:

    • 1. Physical aspects: In the current game the physical differences between the two races are barely distinguishable because the current models of the High Elves in the game are merely provisional models (they are Blood Elves with blue lenses and the voices of the Night Elves) as the provisional models for the Blood Elves before the first expansion (they were discolored Night Elves), ie we do not yet know how will be the High Elves in the game. What we do know is how they should be: the skin color of the High Elves is significantly paler than the skin tone of the Blood Elves who have a darker reddish skin tone, the eyes of the High Elves emit a slight blue glow while the eyes of the Blood Elves emit a vivid green glow, the ears of the High Elves are more pointed than those of the Blood Elves, the High Elves' hair is blond and silver while the hair of the Blood Elves is black or reddish, the Blood Elves are more robust than the High Elves, etc. As you can see the physical differences are remarkable even though they have not yet been implemented in the game.

    • 2. Psychological aspects: It is a fact that demonic magic affects psychologically to the living creatures and the Blood Elves are no exception. Comparing the two races, the Blood Elves are more violent and irascible, more proud, arrogant and stubborn and have less patience and self control which the High Elves; those features are typical features of demons. It is even possible that the demonic magic can explain the sexual ambiguity that Blood Elves have. In practice these psychological differences may manifest themselves, for example: the High Elves' voices are quieter and calmer than those of the Blood Elves, the High Elves have a completely different animations showing more humility and respect and being less aggressive, less brusque and without showing any sexual ambiguity, etc.

    • 3. Cultural aspects: The culture of the High Elves is the same as that of their ancestors of Quel'Thalas, but the culture of the Blood Elves changed completely at the end of the Third War and they became much more proud and arrogant (perhaps due to the psychological changes that demonic magic caused them or simply they changed their minds and decided to change their way of life after suffering many misfortunes). In practice these differences are evident: the Blood Elves have a more outrageous hairstyles than those of the High Elves whose hairstyles are much simpler, the Blood Elves have mystical tattoos all over his body something that the High Elves would never do, the colors that the Blood Elves use in both their dress and their buildings are black, golden and crimson, while the High Elves continue using green, blue and silver colors. (Curiosity: Silvermoon is so called because before the Third War its colors were turquoise, blue and silver and not the current red and golden colors)

    In conclusion we can affirm without doubt that the differences between a High Elf and a Blood Elf are so many and so varied that there would be no problem for them to be playable, however, even if they were exactly alike, there would be no problem even in PVP. (Curiosity: if the name of a character is red and the mouse pointer turns into a sword passing over it, the character is an enemy, otherwise it is a friend)

    *** Too few high elves to be a playable race ***

    According to the Lore, the number of High Elves scattered around Azeroth currently amounts to 25,000 pure High Elves (not counting the half elves), which is substantially higher than the amount of the playable gnomes or trolls. So the excuse that there are very few High Elves is so childish that it deserves no more explanation, and needless to say the little credibility of the Blizzard statement of when there was virtually no WoW (2005) and more knowing that Blizzard opinion changes frequently. (Curiosity: the goblins that will be playable for the Horde will be the survivors of a shipwreck, how many goblins fit on a boat?)

    *** There are already two elven races, with the High Elves we will have three ***

    In other RPGs there are usually more than two different races of elves, each with its advantages and disadvantages. Having three different races of elves being very different each other in a game like World of Warcraft is acceptable. (Curiosity: how many human races are playable in the game? normal humans, decomposing humans (undeads) and damned humans (worgens), there are at least three different races of humans and there is no problem ...)

    *** No racial leader or capital, or area for the race start ***

    The real problem that prevents the High Elves being playable is this and not any of the above. Since the death of Anasterian there is not a leader who can reunite the High Elves scattered around Azeroth to fight alongside the Alliance. The only one who has done a group with some High Elves has been Vereesa Windrunner, but she does not have enough charisma and popularity to bring them together at all. However, there is a character that is respected by all the High Elves and the rest of the Alliance as Anasterian was, and has enough charisma and courage to be the leader of the High Elves and lead them to their former glory. That character is Alleria Windrunner. Surely the same day Alleria back to Azeroth, she will be proclaimed as the new leader of the High Elves of the Alliance.

    The problem of having no capital or land of their own (as their ancestral lands are in the hands of the demonic elves allied with the Horde) is a problem that the High Elves are seeking solutions for a long time. In the time when Alleria takes the leadership of the High Elves is just a matter of time they find a new home. This new home has to be rich in magical presences (as is Quel'Thalas) and currently there is an area rich in magical presences, which is now practically abandoned. I refer to the remains of Suramar, ancient Highborne city, and located in the Broken Isles. The Broken Isles could be conquered by the High Elves and so Suramar will be rebuilt and they will become it their new capital and the Broken Isles will become their new home.




    In short we can say that the blood elves and high elves differ much more than what you believe. There are substantial differences between the blood elves and the high elves due to the demonic magic that blood elves contain and also due to the ethical and moral consequences that flow from their past, present and future decisions.

    Most people insist and will insist that the High Elves and Blood Elves are exactly identical, perhaps because in the game both races share the same model. Which people do not know is that the models of the High Elves in the game are mere placeholders and that, for the other hand, Blizzard does not give the due importance to this topic.

    Some differences are physical (eyes, ears, skin tone, hair color), other psychological (temperament, patience, aggression) and other cultural (hairstyles, colors of its buildings and clothes, colloquialisms).

    It must be said that, unlike their cultural differences, their physical and psychological differences are partly caused by their contact with the vile magic and that these differences are irreversible and hereditary. Of course the more they use these energies their changes will be more obvious.

    In the first place, I'm going to briefly enumerate the physical differences that the demonic magic and the cultural changes have produced between a High Elf and a Blood Elf.
    The vile power causes irreversible changes in the body of the creature that comes into contact with it: you only need to see the creatures that are near sources of this energy. As common factor have to say that vile energy causes a darkening / reddening of the skin and hair and an increase in bulk in the creature affected as a general rule.
    As examples we can see also the fel orcs and blood elves, though these ones are special because the vile energy also has changed their eye color among other things, as detailed here:

    • The Blood Elves are more stout and muscular, losing some agility but gaining strength with respect to the High Elves.
    • The Blood Elves' eyes emit an intense bright green color that prevent seeing their actual eyes color, while the eyes of the High Elves do not emit brightness at all and their color are usually blue or green.
    • The High Elf ears are slightly more elongated than those of the Blood Elves. Instead, the eyelashes of the High Elves are slightly shorter than those of the Blood Elves.
    • Only the very old High Elves have facial hair, i.e. the High Elves are completely beardless until they are very old. However the blood elves have some facial hair and are proud of it.
    • Blood Elves have very showy tattoos and magical inscriptions all over their body, something which the High Elves would never do.
    • The High Elves have a skin tone much paler, but the skin of the Blood Elves is darker and reddish.
    • The hair color of the High Elves is very clear (gold, silver, white, blond ...) but that of the Blood Elves is darker and striking (red, orange, black, brilliant blue...). In addition, the hairstyles of the Blood Elves are too extravagant and provocative while the hairstyles of the High Elves are much more simple and traditional.
    • The postures (the animations in the game) of the High Elves are more formal and decorous, while those of the Blood Elves are more provocative and sexually ambiguous. Related to this we can see how the High Elves are more demure, while the Blood Elves are more provocative.

    Regarding their psychological differences, the vile energy comes, as we all know, of the demons of the Burning Legion, and when a creature consume it, his character will become more aggressive, more conceited, more impatient, more uninhibited, more impulsive, sometimes more evil, etc. Examples have to mention the vile orcs and blood elves like Kael'thas.

    With the return of Alleria Windrunner as the new leader of the High Elves of the Alliance, and the resurgence of Greenwood, the last bastion of the High Elves, the High Elves will become an undeniable force in the power of the Alliance, as they have always been and will be.

    The Quel’dorei will prevail! For the Alliance! Glory to Alleria, the real Ranger-General of Silvermoon! Make the High Elves a playable race now!




    NOTES:
    1. Greenwood is the currently unnamed closed zone wedged between the northwestern border of the Eastern Plaguelands, the northeastern border of the Western Plaguelands, and the southwestern border of the Ghostlands. It is a virgin forest land without the presence of the scourge and last refuge of the High Elves that remain, which are regrouping, waiting for their leader Alleria back soon.
    2. There are significant differences both physical and psychological between high elves and blood elves. Just to mention some:
    • The blood elves have a darker skin and hair, as tanned-red, they are more irascible, proud and pretentious, his eyes reveal their insatiable thirst for magic, and their DNA is mutated with demonic magic irreversibly, by which they are more corpulent, more libidinous, and they struggle to get away from the traditional, with outlandish hairstyles, tattoos, sexual ambiguity and hatred to all that were before. Their favorite colors are crimson and golden, their symbol is the golden phoenix and they are noted for their magical power and strength, they are Sin’dorei.
    • Moreover, the high elves remain faithful to their ancient customs and allies (the Alliance), fighting to preserve what remains of their lifestyle, they are very calm, patient and gentle, have a more pale skin, their hair is blond or silver, their body and their physical characteristics are more "elvish" indeed, unlike the blood elves, high elves are completely beardless. Their favorite colors are turquoise and silver, their symbol is the silver unicorn and they are noted for their wisdom and agility, they are Quel’dorei.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    I will correct yourself: "The Horde got the demonic elves", stay with your gay elves!

    In the Alliance we already have the authentic and pure High Elves, they only need become a playable race and receive their due importance. And that, is a historical obligation, in the same way that the ogres belong to the Horde and should be playable too.

    Ogres for the Horde and High Elves for the Alliance! now!

    For Lordaeron! Glory to the Quel'dorei! Long live Alleria!

    You suck, and suck, nothing constructive just jelousy but i understand you and i feel sorry for you

  14. #54
    Dark iron dwarves for the horde? I think Moira has some really good reasons for them to stay with the other clans (and thus alliance), and she showed up as the dwarf faction leader in the little lorescene in the wolf howls.

    High elves for the alliance sounds plausible, but not likely. What they have done? They have been embedded in the alliance population.

  15. #55
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    Snip
    The High Elves are identical to the Blood Elves: You've expended a great deal of effort trying to demonstrate that the Blood Elves and the High Elves are different.

    PHYSICAL DIFFERENCES: You describe their physical differences, then describe the High Elf model as 'provisional' to justify why those differences are not apparent in game. You have no basis to make this claim besides your own biases. In game time the split occured more or less a decade ago. This is not enough time for a race to diverge to the extent you describe.

    As for the corruption of Fel Magic, this was halted with the restoration of the Sunwell with both sets of affected Elves now feeding on a Holy based power source. This was reflected in game with the removal of the mana tap racial (lorewise at least. Gameplay wise, that racial sucked).

    As for psychological differences...I don't know where you are drawing these conclusions from. Again I have to conclude you have an idealised mental image of the High Elf and are simply projecting that in game without any real evidence to support it.

    THERE ARE TOO FEW HIGH ELVES: The figure of 25,000 High Elves you provide is the long discredited figure given in the RPG. That was declared non canon a long time ago. The actual figure, again based on observations in game and corroborated by non game canon sources, and even by a blue post a few years back I wish I could dig up, is a population that numbers a few hundred at most and is non viable for a playable race.

    THERE WILL BE THREE RACES OF ELF: The differences between the Humans, the Worgen and the Undead are profound enough to justify them being treated as distinct species. The differences between the Blood Elves and the High Elves are too small. Just because you've written a lengthy tract discussing the immense differences between the two doesn't disguise the fact that many of these difference are the product of your imagination with no basis in lore.

    You want them to be different because you want to play an Alliance High Elf. You have a vested interested in proving them to be different, because if proved correct you would advance your goal of justifying the inclusion of High Elves. Because of this vested interest, you are willing to reshape the facts, or even out and out invent them, to justify your narrative.

    The problem with your thesis though is that it demonstratably false.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post
    The Darkspear Trolls maintain a racial capital in the Echo Isles, a Quarter in Orgrimmar, settlements in Zangarmarsh in Outland, villages in Desolace and Durotar and a major presence in Ashenvale Forest and in Stranglethorn Vale. By contrast the High Elves are a smattering in Outland, the occasional NPC in Stormwind and the Silver Covenant in Dalaran.

    In game evidence suggests a much larger and viable Darkspear Troll population compared to the High Elves.
    Well obviously you are going to see more trolls in game. They are already a player race.

  17. #57
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    Of more shit elves we need not.

    That's my thought on the matter.

  18. #58
    Herald of the Titans Northem's Avatar
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    Thank you very much for your support and understanding, it is not easy to defend the Alliance in a game where its creators publicly manifest being pro-Horde. But I'm tireless and never surrender myself to defend what is right.

    Also, particularly, is very difficult to defend a race, the High Elves, which is continually being vilified and mistreated by their own creators and by you all, but that motivates me even more to defend them.

    Yet I am not alone, many of us know that the High Elves have much potential in WoW, and we will never forget them.

    I know that your faction, the Horde, is a very depressing faction that is only formed by treacherous, selfish and stateless races and other riffraff, in fact, you do not doubt in rebel*against your own leader, but is your faction and you must defend it after all.

    I understand that ye are very jealous of the fact that a race of yours can no longer be exclusive to you, but the truth is that the Quel'dorei remain and will always remain beside the Alliance (I think you can not say the same for the Sin'dorei), because unlike yours, ours are loyal and honorable people, one of the many differences between the two races, although according to you, both races are exactly the same, but then, that's what you should to believe.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    Thank you very much for your support and understanding, it is not easy to defend the Alliance in a game where its creators publicly manifest being pro-Horde. But I'm tireless and never surrender myself to defend what is right.

    Also, particularly, is very difficult to defend a race, the High Elves, which is continually being vilified and mistreated by their own creators and by you all, but that motivates me even more to defend them.

    Yet I am not alone, many of us know that the High Elves have much potential in WoW, and we will never forget them.

    I know that your faction, the Horde, is a very depressing faction that is only formed by treacherous, selfish and stateless races and other riffraff, in fact, you do not doubt in rebel*against your own leader, but is your faction and you must defend it after all.

    I understand that ye are very jealous of the fact that a race of yours can no longer be exclusive to you, but the truth is that the Quel'dorei remain and will always remain beside the Alliance (I think you can not say the same for the Sin'dorei), because unlike yours, ours are loyal and honorable people, one of the many differences between the two races, although according to you, both races are exactly the same, but then, that's what you should to believe.
    Link some proof to your claims and you'll be taken seriously, friend.

    I think you're inferring a lot with that post.

  20. #60
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post
    awesome
    One of the best posts I've ever seen on the subject.

    You won't convince Northem and his extensive back catalogue of fanfiction though. I don't think anyone ever will.

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