Should their be a Limit on how many children people can have?

[Osmeric]

Much of the developed world is facing the prospect of a population implosion. This scary scenario is the most advanced in Japan, where fertility rates have fallen so low for so long that the population is actually declining. It may become impossible to support all the old retired people with the workers that will be available.

I understand in S. Korea, it's become a problem where old people are just killing themselves.

[Deleted]

I honestly don't care how many children you have/want as long as you can sustain and afford X ammount of children. Though if a person can't even sustain one, well, I guess you should have thought better about it but I see no reason to abort the baby or possibly take it away from the mother/father.

[breadisfunny]

Does Japan have a child limit? I'm not keen on Japan.

i know china does.

[Rukentuts]

i know china does.

Which isn't exactly a model for human rights, considering they just go around to villages and sterilize all the women.

[breadisfunny]

Which isn't exactly a model for human rights, considering they just go around to villages and sterilize all the women.

wasn't saying it was. just adding to the fact that other countries do have it. even if they dont do it in a humane way. im more inclined towards tax incentives or other incentives for those who are under the limit if we ever had to implement it and tax penalties/other penalties(not jailtime) for those who dont follow it. this is IF we ever have to implement something like this. personally i am against something like this if its not needed.

[Raiju]

That would involve cutting welfare which means cries of "DATS WACIST" from liberals.

The sacred defense of children needs to be toned down just slightly so it can be abused less.

[Deleted]

Lets stop with welfare to be honest. Let's implement ration tickets like they have for alcoholics and druggies. You'll get a coupon worth X amount of money at a chosen food store and you can go there and buy food items with the coupon. The coupon doesn't refund change and it can't be used elsewhere. You either buy food for the entire worth of the coupon or the excess will burn in. It's not harder than that.

Child birth in low/mid income families will drop like a rock if you implement this. You aren't supposed to be able to buy an Xbox 360 or even the occasional bottle of wine when you can't support your own family. I'll let you have food on your table and a roof above your head but that's generous enough.

[Rukentuts]

wasn't saying it was. just adding to the fact that other countries do have it. even if they dont do it in a humane way. im more inclined towards tax incentives or other incentives for those who are under the limit if we ever had to implement it and tax penalties/other penalties(not jailtime) for those who dont follow it. this is IF we ever have to implement something like this. personally i am against something like this if its not needed.

Just tweak social benefit systems so they cannot be exploited in this manner. If you can afford to have 20 kids without government assistance, that is your prerogative.

[Rodna]

Lets stop with welfare to be honest. Let's implement ration tickets like they have for alcoholics and druggies. You'll get a coupon worth X amount of money at a chosen food store and you can go there and buy food items with the coupon. The coupon doesn't refund change and it can't be used elsewhere. You either buy food for the entire worth of the coupon or the excess will burn in. It's not harder than that.

Child birth in low/mid income families will drop like a rock if you implement this. You aren't supposed to be able to buy an Xbox 360 or even the occasional bottle of wine when you can't support your own family. I'll let you have food on your table and a roof above your head but that's generous enough.

Let's actually be honest here. What is the real overall birth rate for "low/mid income families" and how is that a problem?

[Deleted]

Let's actually be honest here. What is the real overall birth rate for "low/mid income families" and how is that a problem?

It's annoying that's what it is

Why should someone who basically craps out babies have it better than someone who actually wait to be economically secure? It makes absolutely no sense and it's not fair. Everyone should be entitled food and shelter daily but that's it. Why promote reckless and lazy behavior with giving these people excess of anything? It should just barely go around for them to survive.

[Rukentuts]

Let's actually be honest here. What is the real overall birth rate for "low/mid income families" and how is that a problem?

The birthrate is higher than upper income families, however anybody chanting that everyone on welfare is having kids for the money clearly hasn't examined the costs of having a child. It's a political dog whistle.

Here's the total birthrate in the USA.

Here's international fertility rates.

[Rodna]

The birthrate is higher than upper income families, however anybody chanting that everyone on welfare is having kids for the money clearly hasn't examined the costs of having a child. It's a political dog whistle.

I'm more trying to get at the fact that all industrialised countries have subreplacement fertility rates. People are complaining about imaginary issues.

[Rukentuts]

I'm more trying to get at the fact that all industrialised countries have subreplacement fertility rates. People are complaining about imaginary issues.

If people want a target for their birth rate whining, I can present them with applicable targets:



Looks like Japan and Deutchland are in trouble in this regard.

[Mukki]

Oh look, the libertarian/pro-freedom/anti-government nutjobs doing their typical dance of "no government intervention in life!! except when I want it".

You have a lot of learning to do. This is a gross opinion. Jefferson and Washington, man, talk about nutjobs!

OT: Overpopulation is a myth, and IMO, the government shouldn't be the lord and master of the people in ANY country.

[Deleted]

Who cares about the actual birth rates? It's the inability to support them that's annoying. Get a steady income and secure the future for the X amount of children you want and no one will give a rats ass. If you have 10 kids and you had them secured and something horrible happened that made you unable to support them, that's fine, that's what welfare is for. Now if you don't have that economic security and still decide to crap out 10 kids nothing extra should be given to you beyond what you need to survive. Why should it?

[solvexx]

Limits should not be a thing, incentives should though.

[Grizzly Willy]

Limits should not be a thing, incentives should though.

That is generally a good rule to follow when you want to affect some sort of change in behavior. Positive enforcement over negative enforcement.

[Deleted]

I hate to bring a Channel 4 documentary into this, but here in the UK, Channel 4 aired a programme about two families.

One family had 16 children.
Another family had 11.

The Family with 11 kids, and the Dad wanting more, were on full benefits. - In my opinion, they shouldn't be allowed...
The family with 16 kids owned their own bakery business and earned all their own money. - Here, I think they should be allowed as many as they want.

Families should prepare. They should evaluate if they can afford it, and also think of the children too.

Of course, everyone has the right to have a family, but the size of that family is something they should think hard about... Those on benefits also tend to pass on the "Everything for nothing" lifestyle. I remember one woman complaining on the radio that her daughter was on a waiting list for a council house... Instead of trying to do something with her life a try to buy one...


At the moment, my wife and I would love to have a baby, but I know that right now, I would like to gather more funds so I can give that baby a comfortable life, and help whem in the distant future when they need help with a house, for example...

[Numeanor]

And what country would that be?



Poor is a state of mind. Circumstances around you may hinder or help your capability, but it comes down to the individuals to work hard and prosper. I had to work for three years with no pay to set up my company, I took nothing for three years, scrapping by, but now I am earning a large amount of money, I've educated myself over those three years so I could walk into almost any company and get a C-Suite Job.

It wasn't easy, it was bloody hard work, but I forced myself to do it, while most people just sit around crying about how life isn't fair or how hard it is. I'm not wanting to dramatise things, or my story, but there were nights where I choose to go hungry, so I could buy some Software or Recording Equipment for the company.

Life isn't fair, it is going to absolutely obliterate you, so quit whining and educate yourself!

I'm from Slovenia.
to open company in my country you need 7500€ of capital to start it, without job it's impossible to get that sum of money. Now smarty pants and more smart remarks? I have enough education, I'm computer programmer, specialized in graphics programming, GUI building and drawing. I have even made some of small games myself. Here there is no job, without job you get 223€ of welfare and go fuck yourself with that money. I can't leave country because I have no money, I can't open company because I have no money and I can't work because there is no jobs. Goo that I see you banned so I hope you get your big smart mouth shut!

---------- Post added 2013-03-25 at 08:18 PM ----------

It's funny to see how people only see food and energy needed for people to live.
Yeah right:
In addition to all that you need:
roof over your head,
clothes,
basic tools,
something to spend our time and to be creative/working - that being computer for programmer, car for taxi driver, paper and colours for artist,...

If we need only food, water and energy then tell me what to do whole days? Scratch my balls? My bottom?
Oh right I don't need stuff to survive, but just some basic stuff and watch the air.
No I need other stuff as well to live normally. I want to be creative, I want to work and I want to do something with my free time, even if that is playing games or anything else.

Keep closing your eyes there is enough resources, and that destroying oceans and forests isn't overpopulation problem. If there wouldn't be so much people shitting on this planet, then we wouldn't need so much wood, food, plastics and other stuff. We wouldn't pollute so much as we wouldn't need to produce so much of everything.

[Deleted]

I'm from Slovenia.
to open company in my country you need 7500€ of capital to start it, without job it's impossible to get that sum of money. Now smarty pants and more smart remarks? I have enough education, I'm computer programmer, specialized in graphics programming, GUI building and drawing. I have even made some of small games myself. Here there is no job, without job you get 223€ of welfare and go fuck yourself with that money. I can't leave country because I have no money, I can't open company because I have no money and I can't work because there is no jobs. Goo that I see you banned so I hope you get your big smart mouth shut!

---------- Post added 2013-03-25 at 08:18 PM ----------

It's funny to see how people only see food and energy needed for people to live.
Yeah right:
In addition to all that you need:
roof over your head,
clothes,
basic tools,
something to spend our time and to be creative/working - that being computer for programmer, car for taxi driver, paper and colours for artist,...

If we need only food, water and energy then tell me what to do whole days? Scratch my balls? My bottom?
Oh right I don't need stuff to survive, but just some basic stuff and watch the air.
No I need other stuff as well to live normally. I want to be creative, I want to work and I want to do something with my free time, even if that is playing games or anything else.

Keep closing your eyes there is enough resources, and that destroying oceans and forests isn't overpopulation problem. If there wouldn't be so much people shitting on this planet, then we wouldn't need so much wood, food, plastics and other stuff. We wouldn't pollute so much as we wouldn't need to produce so much of everything.

Mmmh no yes I mean... You're quite right there, good point. Well written.
So you want birth control, cause your government fucked up?