Why Alliance in SoO is bad thing

[bufferunderrun]

I think that peoples look how many npc a faction has in game and then pull numbers out of their.... orgrimmar in lore is much much bigger not few vendors the trainers and 10-15 grunts; there are garrison and the bulk of the orcs army still there, demolishers factories, zepp factories, airships factories is all inside there; the darkspear+tauren+ some contingent from sylvanas and lor'themar aren't nearly enought to take the city especially after garrosh changed it into a fortress. The alliance good ol' siege engines are needed also a few gallons of dwarf's beer is welcomed as well.

[Florena]

You don´t have to be a military master mind to see someone revolting on your enemy capital and not go "well of course we gonna give you a hand!".

Also, this is a video game, what do you want? that hole raid to be Horde only? (don´t asnwer that). Besides, from what I read, Alliance part will be like "undercover", officially it will be a Horde solved problem (again from what I quickly read on the patch notes). Think of it as how we know what happened after arthas died but no one else in azeroth does (even though theres a statue with a video of the hole thing, odd isnt it?).

In 5.3 the alliance takes a covert approach. In 5.4 they will invade outright.

[luccadeo]

In 5.3 the alliance takes a covert approach. In 5.4 they will invade outright.

Glad to hear that because if the Alliance had to take another backseat to Horde I'd be really mad.

[Nekrosislol]

More people to stand against garrosh's horde can reduce the casualties. Thrall and Voljin aren't idiots, if they didn't get help from alliance there would be little to no horde left after the seige

[Florena]

More people to stand against garrosh's horde can reduce the casualties. Thrall and Voljin aren't idiots, if they didn't get help from alliance there would be little to no horde left after the seige

Yeah, I could see this becoming a Pyrrhic victory for the Horde if done by themselves, if they did win.

[Airwaves]

Face it, the rebels need the Alliance. Otherwise the only thing the rebellion would do is make a lot of dead rebels and an even more overconfident and warmongering Garrosh.

But the Alliance also needs the horde rebels because this is there only chance not to face the full force of the horde. Look what happened last time they attacked org. Without Jaina saving them the alliance navy would have been wiped out. Alliance are never going to get a better chance then now to join with the horde rebels and end the horde threat.

[Deleted]

But the Alliance also needs the horde rebels because this is there only chance not to face the full force of the horde. Look what happened last time they attacked org. Without Jaina saving them the alliance navy would have been wiped out. Alliance are never going to get a better chance then now to join with the horde rebels and end the horde threat.

The Alliance will not end the Horde threat, they will help the Horde resolve their inner conflicts.

[Stormdash]

The Alliance will not end the Horde threat, they will help the Horde resolve their inner conflicts.

This is where the plot breaks down for me as well. About the one thing that helps the Alliance *least* would be the Horde resolving its inner conflicts. Surely there is a double cross coming?

[bohapjut]

You know, OP is right. Only horde players should be allowed to raid next tier, alliance can keep running ToT until the expansion.

[jealouspirate]

This is where the plot breaks down for me as well. About the one thing that helps the Alliance *least* would be the Horde resolving its inner conflicts. Surely there is a double cross coming?

I agree, this is where I get bothered as well. It seems to me that it would make more sense for the Alliance to let the Horde tear itself apart and then strike the victor while they're weakest. Of course, that's not going to happen for gameplay reasons, which I think means the story was chosen poorly.

[Florena]

I agree, this is where I get bothered as well. It seems to me that it would make more sense for the Alliance to let the Horde tear itself apart and then strike the victor while they're weakest. Of course, that's not going to happen for gameplay reasons, which I think means the story was chosen poorly.

If we let the darkspear rebellion fail in 5.3, then a small part of the Horde is crushed and Garrosh continues on, the others unable to band with Vol'jin and put up a meaningful resistance.

[Deleted]

If we let the darkspear rebellion fail in 5.3, then a small part of the Horde is crushed and Garrosh continues on, the others unable to band with Vol'jin and put up a meaningful resistance.

Not only that but Garrosh will also get stronger. His WMD arsenal is growing at the minute right now. That's the main problem right here, Garrosh has no problem in using superweapons and no matter how bigger the Horde Rebels or the Alliance is, weapons of mass destruction that numbers and statistics out of the table.

[TheDangerZone]

Yes, cut the Alliance out of the expansion pack's conclusion and give us absolutely no closure for all Garrosh has done to our faction in cata and mop. That sounds great.

Both sides have an angle to complain about here.

Horde say 'omg we shouldn't need the alliance to overthrow our own corrupt warchief!'

Alliance say 'omg we're just doing the Horde a favor here by giving them back Orgrimmar'

Ultimately though, the moral of the expansion is not to let pride get the better of us, 'proud races must admit they need help,' so of course garrosh becomes a threat neither can defeat alone.

Truth.

Lovely way of summing it up

[Stormdash]

I agree, this is where I get bothered as well. It seems to me that it would make more sense for the Alliance to let the Horde tear itself apart and then strike the victor while they're weakest. Of course, that's not going to happen for gameplay reasons, which I think means the story was chosen poorly.

There needs to be a cutscene, I would hope, not just an in-game RP -- possibly where the Alliance makes a play, and the Horde counters, and they go into mexican standoff that is broken by whomever it is that steps up to be Warchief.

The thing I worry about, I suppose, because I'm sure it will frustrate really committed Alliance players (I'm pretty faction ambivalent myself), is that just by the nature of the raid and the foregone conclusion that the Alliance will lay siege to Orgrimmar and ultimately get on their ships and go home is probably going to feel like the Alliance "lost" no matter how they get through the story.

[TheDangerZone]

I agree, this is where I get bothered as well. It seems to me that it would make more sense for the Alliance to let the Horde tear itself apart and then strike the victor while they're weakest. Of course, that's not going to happen for gameplay reasons, which I think means the story was chosen poorly.

Too much of a gambit, and Varian is all about playing it smart. If anything good can be taken form "A Little Patience" is that.

If the Alliance just let the Horde war internally and stand in the sidelines, they risk Garrosh squashing the revolution. It would weaken the horde temporarily; this would cause a paranoiac Garrosh to fear their attack and made him launch a preemptive strike with EVERYTHING he has. Even the Forsaken blight that he'd pry from Sylvanas cold, dead(er), hands.

If the Alliance actually use the civil war to strike at the same time and weaken the horde further, it would make all the surviving members of the Horde hate them forever and label them as oportunistic shit. The Horde would ultimately reform and hate the alliance even more. The only way to avoid this would be systematic genocide of the horde survivors to wipe them for good. And what would be left of the alliance morals then?

The only way to depose a tyrant and gather enough good will to cool down the conflict is cooperation.

[Faroth]

There needs to be a cutscene, I would hope, not just an in-game RP -- possibly where the Alliance makes a play, and the Horde counters, and they go into mexican standoff that is broken by whomever it is that steps up to be Warchief.

The thing I worry about, I suppose, because I'm sure it will frustrate really committed Alliance players (I'm pretty faction ambivalent myself), is that just by the nature of the raid and the foregone conclusion that the Alliance will lay siege to Orgrimmar and ultimately get on their ships and go home is probably going to feel like the Alliance "lost" no matter how they get through the story.

For me, the biggest frustration is that Blizzard, particularly Metzen, said this was going to be an expansion the Alliance could shine and have their "fist pump" moment.

So far the only interesting developments I've seen have all been Horde side. Alliance has been pretty plain and straightforward.

I wouldn't be surprised if the SoO concludes with Anduin volunteering to remain amongst the Horde as an ambassador with Dezco as his protector. There's going to be something to establish a renewed truce between Horde and Alliance to unite and face down the Burning Legion I'm sure.

Early on, this sentiment was met with "You're laying siege to Orgrimmar, what more do you want?" but honestly there seems to be more plot development and intrigue developed for the Horde laying siege to Orgrimmar and overthrowing Garrosh than any maneuvering for the Alliance to seem like they're making a plan. So far it feels like we go to Vol'jin and offer up help.

[Stormdash]

I play mostly on Horde side, and that's actually somewhat as a function of how dry and static the Alliance story is. Anduin's had a story of sorts, Jaina has had a story, and there is a hint of after-the-fact political intrigue, after it's moot, about Varian wanting to woo the Blood Elves. But that's... it. That is what gets by as heavy plot for the Alliance from 5.0 to, apparently, 5.3. I would be pissed off at that promise too if I had anything invested in it. As I said, there's no scenario in which the Alliance's role in the Siege of Orgrimmar won't end up seeming at best a missed opportunity for victory and at worst an actual defeat.

[jealouspirate]

The thing I worry about, I suppose, because I'm sure it will frustrate really committed Alliance players (I'm pretty faction ambivalent myself), is that just by the nature of the raid and the foregone conclusion that the Alliance will lay siege to Orgrimmar and ultimately get on their ships and go home is probably going to feel like the Alliance "lost" no matter how they get through the story.

Very well said! I completely agree. For the Horde this is about stopping Garrosh. For the Alliance, it's not that simple to separate the Horde and Garrosh. Saying Garrosh is the threat and not the Horde is a really hard sell for Alliance fans.

For me, the biggest frustration is that Blizzard, particularly Metzen, said this was going to be an expansion the Alliance could shine and have their "fist pump" moment.

Another good point, Faroth. I'm not convinced this promise will be fulfilled either. As you said, at this point it seems like the Alliance's "moment to shine" is just offering to give support to Vol'jin's revolution. Not exactly what I had in mind.

[Sandrox]

You don´t have to be a military master mind to see someone revolting on your enemy capital and not go "well of course we gonna give you a hand!".

Also, this is a video game, what do you want? that hole raid to be Horde only? (don´t asnwer that). Besides, from what I read, Alliance part will be like "undercover", officially it will be a Horde solved problem (again from what I quickly read on the patch notes). Think of it as how we know what happened after arthas died but no one else in azeroth does (even though theres a statue with a video of the hole thing, odd isnt it?).

Everyone knows Arthas is dead. They dont know that Bolvar replaced him.

---------- Post added 2013-04-02 at 09:18 PM ----------

Very well said! I completely agree. For the Horde this is about stopping Garrosh. For the Alliance, it's not that simple to separate the Horde and Garrosh. Saying Garrosh is the threat and not the Horde is a really hard sell for Alliance fans.

Thats because for Alliance, it isnt true. The entire Horde has beeen attacking the Alliance, not just Garrosh's forces. Just because they finally got the balls to turn on him doesnt mean their previous actions dont demand justice.

[bohapjut]

Everyone knows Arthas is dead. They dont know that Bolvar replaced him.

Not everyone knows this. How do you think Turalyon or Alleria could've figured this out?