Can we expect Orc Paladins/Priests in the future?

[Repefe]

... Because they are Elves. The stereotypical elf has long flowy hair, not an army cut. I personally think the spiky hair style is ridicoulous.

That's the point ... it's a stereotypical look. Thousands upon thousands belves and on a single one cuts his hair short. What's up with that. Scissors are in short supply or what.

There's one -very- short haircut for male belves. It's slicked back following only the model of the skull.

Yeah, but that's not short. The way it looks the hair can be 20-30cm long going from forehead all the way back to neck. It's like a hair helm.

[Venziir]

That's the point ... it's a stereotypical look. Thousands upon thousands belves and on a single one cuts his hair short. What's up with that. Scissors are in short supply or what.



Yeah, but that's not short. The way it looks the hair can be 20-30cm long going from forehead all the way back to neck. It's like a hair helm.

The issue is that if the elves didn't look like - well elves - people would complain even more. It's almost as big a deal as the pointy ears. Besides, it's romantized, medieval fantasy which means long hair for everyone - and I do mean everyone.

[-Superman-]

I like my long hair. It's fun to look fabulous

[Lochton]

Having class limitations on any race seems pretty outdated.

Not really, they are rightfully there. Not all should become what ever they want, I admit, I groaned when Horde got Paladins at first but I am flexible. But think it'll go too far to remove the limitations.

Would rather keep them, and get class identity back (i.e. being able to fear forsaken as a Paladin, or warlocks in demon form. Or locks to be able to enslave a warlock in demon form. Having bonus damage back towards classes of creatures and such. It just sounds a bit odd that some claasses loses their identity when others don't)

[Itisamuh]

Probably not, but I think it's stupid that they even have race to class restrictions anymore. They've already opened it up beyond what makes sense from a lore perspective, so they might as well just get rid of the limitations altogether.

[Venziir]

Not really, they are rightfully there. Not all should become what ever they want, I admit, I groaned when Horde got Paladins at first but I am flexible. But think it'll go too far to remove the limitations.

Would rather keep them, and get class identity back (i.e. being able to fear forsaken as a Paladin, or warlocks in demon form. Or locks to be able to enslave a warlock in demon form. Having bonus damage back towards classes of creatures and such. It just sounds a bit odd that some claasses loses their identity when others don't)

Before you start preaching about "class identity", I'd like to point out that the days of Forsaken players being harrased by Paladins were beta days, they never made it life for a reason. As for the other elements, such as enslaving a warlock when he uses metamorphosis, sure it could work in PvE - but never in PvP.

---------- Post added 2013-04-04 at 04:40 PM ----------

Probably not, but I think it's stupid that they even have race to class restrictions anymore. They've already opened it up beyond what makes sense from a lore perspective, so they might as well just get rid of the limitations altogether.

Again with the "makes sense", honestly if people bothered to read up they'd realise that it all makes sense.

[Drithien]

Again - it all makes sense.

I was not arguing whether it made sense or not. That would be a weird argument to make in a fictional world. Anything can be done as long as its creators wish it to be so. My disagreement is with the reasoning. It stinks of either fan-service (death knights for almost all races) or twisting of the lore to fit the gameplay (tauren paladins). And it ruins the feeling of unique cultures in the world of the game. Paladins for example where supposed to be an exclusive to the Alliance concept, and they were cherished as such. Now it's not a matter of which racial faction has paladins but which doesn't have, and the feeling that they are something amazing has naturally declined, as it happens when something becomes so popular it gets common.

The writers of the story can do whatever they want with it. But what they do isn't necessarily plausible, or of good taste. And especially when the player can see how they pulled apart, pasted over, twisted and in general came up with "new approaches" most likely residing in some very dark and smelly places before coming to the light of creativity, I can certainly say that "it all makes sense" is not the explanation I was looking for. Good story-telling is supposed to captivate you, make you wonder, contemplate, shock you, amaze you. Not leave you with some anime question marks all around your head due to the mixture of awful and hilarious feelings going through a story left you with. This is exactly the kind of bad writing that has made most american comics suck majorly. The "it all makes sense" (if we shake things a bit and pretend some things didn't happen) approach. And now it's in this game too. Oh well.

And all the while incredible opportunities are lost. Opportunities that have to do with what could be done if the lore was treated better. Like Sunwalkers. They could have been an entirely new class. With their own feel. Unique campaign, special artistic design for armour type, taureny abilities and spells, and so on. Instead they are paladins with another name, and the result is some tauren paladin avatars hanging around Orgrimmar in ridiculous get-ups, all "shining-cow-of-the-holy-light, now with added golden glow!", for the very reason that paladin armour was never designed with taurens in mind, but more human-like races. But if it all makes sense...

[-Superman-]

I was not arguing whether it made sense or not. That would be a weird argument to make in a fictional world. Anything can be done as long as its creators wish it to be so. My disagreement is with the reasoning. It stinks of either fan-service (death knights for almost all races) or twisting of the lore to fit the gameplay (tauren paladins). And it ruins the feeling of unique cultures in the world of the game. Paladins for example where supposed to be an exclusive to the Alliance concept, and they were cherished as such. Now it's not a matter of which racial faction has paladins but which doesn't have, and the feeling that they are something amazing has naturally declined, as it happens when something becomes so popular it gets common.

The writers of the story can do whatever they want with it. But what they do isn't necessarily plausible, or of good taste. And especially when the player can see how they pulled apart, pasted over, twisted and in general came up with "new approaches" most likely residing in some very dark and smelly places before coming to the light of creativity, I can certainly say that "it all makes sense" is not the explanation I was looking for. Good story-telling is supposed to captivate you, make you wonder, contemplate, shock you, amaze you. Not leave you with some anime question marks all around your head due to the mixture of awful and hilarious feelings going through a story left you with. This is exactly the kind of bad writing that has made most american comics suck majorly. The "it all makes sense" (if we shake things a bit and pretend some things didn't happen) approach. And now it's in this game too. Oh well.

And all the while incredible opportunities are lost. Opportunities that have to do with what could be done if the lore was treated better. Like Sunwalkers. They could have been an entirely new class. With their own feel. Unique campaign, special artistic design for armour type, taureny abilities and spells, and so on. Instead they are paladins with another name, and the result is some tauren paladin avatars hanging around Orgrimmar in ridiculous get-ups, all "shining-cow-of-the-holy-light, now with added golden glow!", for the very reason that paladin armour was never designed with taurens in mind, but more human-like races. But if it all makes sense...

I absolutely share your sentiment. My race/class should have been a "Dark Paladin" since we weren't really using the light, but rather bending it to our will. There is a lot of missed Lore opportunities for Blizz just by catering to potential homogenizations. At this rate, we will log in, pick a race, pick a class, choose either faction, and then start leveling a Horde Gnome Hunter (for example). At the rate people are begging for things like this, it will not be much longer before all lore is lost and it is just another MMO.

[Repefe]

The issue is that if the elves didn't look like - well elves - people would complain even more. It's almost as big a deal as the pointy ears. Besides, it's romantized, medieval fantasy which means long hair for everyone - and I do mean everyone.

Well that's the thing. If there are ppl who are against elves having visage variances outside of the old stereotypical look and only other option for paladins are taurens, there will be ppl asking for other races to be available for paladins. Now what is more against lore ... elves with short hair or orcs/trolls as paladins.

[Venziir]

I was not arguing whether it made sense or not. That would be a weird argument to make in a fictional world. Anything can be done as long as its creators wish it to be so. My disagreement is with the reasoning. It stinks of either fan-service (death knights for almost all races) or twisting of the lore to fit the gameplay (tauren paladins). And it ruins the feeling of unique cultures in the world of the game. Paladins for example where supposed to be an exclusive to the Alliance concept, and they were cherished as such. Now it's not a matter of which racial faction has paladins but which doesn't have, and the feeling that they are something amazing has naturally declined, as it happens when something becomes so popular it gets common.

The writers of the story can do whatever they want with it. But what they do isn't necessarily plausible, or of good taste. And especially when the player can see how they pulled apart, pasted over, twisted and in general came up with "new approaches" most likely residing in some very dark and smelly places before coming to the light of creativity, I can certainly say that "it all makes sense" is not the explanation I was looking for. Good story-telling is supposed to captivate you, make you wonder, contemplate, shock you, amaze you. Not leave you with some anime question marks all around your head due to the mixture of awful and hilarious feelings going through a story left you with. This is exactly the kind of bad writing that has made most american comics suck majorly. The "it all makes sense" (if we shake things a bit and pretend some things didn't happen) approach. And now it's in this game too. Oh well.

And all the while incredible opportunities are lost. Opportunities that have to do with what could be done if the lore was treated better. Like Sunwalkers. They could have been an entirely new class. With their own feel. Unique campaign, special artistic design for armour type, taureny abilities and spells, and so on. Instead they are paladins with another name, and the result is some tauren paladin avatars hanging around Orgrimmar in ridiculous get-ups, all "shining-cow-of-the-holy-light, now with added golden glow!", for the very reason that paladin armour was never designed with taurens in mind, but more human-like races. But if it all makes sense...

And yet, you do argue whether it makes sense or not. The fact that all races (bar Pandaren) can be Death Knights is simple, it's got nothing to do with "fan-service" (which is a nausiating idea), Arthas and the Scourge didn't discriminate - they killed and raised those they saw fit, it's pure logic. Arthas didn't go "Uhm, no thanks, I don't want a Tauren joining my Death Knight Order", he went "Sweet, this guy was pretty tough - let's recycle him!"

And you seem to have missed the fact that when it comes to storytelling, MMO's are not the best media, say compared to a singleplayer RPG, there are simply things you cannot due because of gameplay reasons, balance issues and so on and so forth. Which is also why a Sunwalker couldn't have been a brand new class. It would be a brand new class for - ONE - race, which would be a waste of ressources. Now, you mention that paladin armor was never designed with a tauren in mind, neither does most shaman gear match a dwarf of a draenei (especially not armor sets such as Ten Storms which is basically nothing buy Horde crests).

And you go on and on about how "twisted" it is, I'm willing to bet that you don't know half of the stuff going on in the Warcraft lore, yet you act as if you practically wrote it or something as grand.

So yes, if you bother to take all things into consideration, and stop being narrowminded - yes it all does make sense and it's got nothing to do with "shaking things or pretending some things didn't happen".

---------- Post added 2013-04-04 at 05:36 PM ----------

I absolutely share your sentiment. My race/class should have been a "Dark Paladin" since we weren't really using the light, but rather bending it to our will. There is a lot of missed Lore opportunities for Blizz just by catering to potential homogenizations. At this rate, we will log in, pick a race, pick a class, choose either faction, and then start leveling a Horde Gnome Hunter (for example). At the rate people are begging for things like this, it will not be much longer before all lore is lost and it is just another MMO.

Blood Knights were Dark Paladins basically. They were granted their powers through manipulation, corruption and hatred. And their class quests clearly reflected this. However, they were cleansed as was the Sunwell, so at this point it's "just" another Paladin Order.

Again, it's got nothing to do with "catering to the potential homogenizations", it's got to do with juggling ressources. And oh cut the melodrama at the end please, it does you no favours.

---------- Post added 2013-04-04 at 05:37 PM ----------

Well that's the thing. If there are ppl who are against elves having visage variances outside of the old stereotypical look and only other option for paladins are taurens, there will be ppl asking for other races to be available for paladins. Now what is more against lore ... elves with short hair or orcs/trolls as paladins.

I don't even see how you can compare the two. One is basically the description of *all* fantasy elves, the other is whether or not there should be more Horde Paladins in WoW.

Short haired elves have nothing to do with the lore of Warcraft, but something to do with... Well, elves in fantasy.

[TheDangerZone]

You know that the part of who they worship is not really a problem, for example the Blood Elves stole the light from the Naarus but the new paladins worship the sun, also the others races could just create their own organization (like how the sunwalkers were created on cataclysm) or just join an organization of their allies.

I think Kurgalolz is onto something. All races but the blood elves have become paladins through worship, and blood elves are the clear exception because they are so adept at magic that they just channel the light at will from a source. Could the theoretical orc paladin do that?

Orcs are not big in the worshiping, their spirituality is much more hands on.

Even if the orcs managed to wield the light by force, would the want to? Or do they see it as a lesser source of power?

[Repefe]

I don't even see how you can compare the two. One is basically the description of *all* fantasy elves, the other is whether or not there should be more Horde Paladins in WoW.

Short haired elves have nothing to do with the lore of Warcraft, but something to do with... Well, elves in fantasy.

Isn't generic elf a creature aligned with nature magic living in forests focused on agility and magic abilities ... Belves can't even be druids, instead they can roll strength and magic based paladin class. I don't think that hair would be even close to top of the list of things where belves in WoW differ from the common elves of all fantasy games.

[Deleted]

Why and why not?

Orc Priests might have a higher chance of becoming available.
We know that there are Orc Twilight cultists that are like shadow priests.

But Orc Paladins?
Does the current lore allow it? (you know, playable orcs being green aka corrupted etc?)

Yea well lore can be changed stories can be changed and stuff evolves.
Otherwise women would still not be allowed to vote, you would have to drive in the left side of the road in sweden, and most kings and queens would still rule by divine right.

And well blizzard lore is not like the bloody koran or the bloody bible, where apparently nothing like ever can be changed.

All you need for orc priests is for them to find some boggus religion they can call themselves priests in.
And for orc paladins, you just need some orcs to say hey its cool to hang out with those metrosexual belfs or the flowerpower tauren paladins to learn to be paladins.

[Venziir]

Isn't generic elf a creature aligned with nature magic living in forests focused on agility and magic abilities ... Belves can't even be druids, instead they can roll strength and magic based paladin class. I don't think that hair would be even close to top of the list of things where belves in WoW differ from the common elves of all fantasy games.

Generic elves are usually either Wood Elves or High Elves - one being the archer, druidy and somewhat savage type the other the arrogant, thousand year old wizard or clericy, elitist (sometimes even slightly fascist) soldier-lord.

I mean, look at "Lord of the Rings", that's basically the genesis of the modern fantasy elf. We have the Wood Elves of Lothlorien, who all walk around wearing basically nothing, living in trees and singing. And then we have the elves of Rivendell, who are armorclad and ready to fight.

[Drfireburns]

We would see Undead Paladins before Orc Paladins. Undead Paladins are on Purgation Isle South of Hillsbrad Foothills

[Venziir]

I think Kurgalolz is onto something. All races but the blood elves have become paladins through worship, and blood elves are the clear exception because they are so adept at magic that they just channel the light at will from a source. Could the theoretical orc paladin do that?

Orcs are not big in the worshiping, their spirituality is much more hands on.

Even if the orcs managed to wield the light by force, would the want to? Or do they see it as a lesser source of power?

Orcs are kinda big on worship though, though not by "going to church", but they revere the Elements and the Ancestors quite a bit, and when it comes to said belief, the shaman acts as the "priest".

---------- Post added 2013-04-04 at 05:58 PM ----------

We would see Undead Paladins before Orc Paladins. Undead Paladins are on Purgation Isle South of Hillsbrad Foothills

Well they were at least prior to Cataclysm... And they weren't really Undead as in Forsaken, they were Ghosts, which while still being Undead isnt quite the same as the playable Forsaken Undead.

[-Superman-]

Blood Knights were Dark Paladins basically. They were granted their powers through manipulation, corruption and hatred. And their class quests clearly reflected this. However, they were cleansed as was the Sunwell, so at this point it's "just" another Paladin Order.

Again, it's got nothing to do with "catering to the potential homogenizations", it's got to do with juggling ressources. And oh cut the melodrama at the end please, it does you no favours.

Paladin is already the most popularly played class in WoW. If we add more races that can be paladins, aren't we tossing out the balance of resources? As to the "melodrama", I wasn't aware that personal opinion expressed without emotion was drama. I'm simply not in favor of leading us down that path. Once orcs get paladins, gnomes will get hunters, belfs will get druids, Alliance will get horde and so on and so on. It all starts with "just one little thing" and then people find themselves wondering when we started sliding down that slope. Like I said, I am not in favor of these race/class combos, but ultimately, the decision is not ours, it is Blizzard's.

[Repefe]

Generic elves are usually either Wood Elves or High Elves - one being the archer, druidy and somewhat savage type the other the arrogant, thousand year old wizard or clericy, elitist (sometimes even slightly fascist) soldier-lord.

Oh, that's true. So to get short haired humanoid paladin on horde side the best bet for the future would be undead. Fingers crossed.

[Venziir]

Paladin is already the most popularly played class in WoW. If we add more races that can be paladins, aren't we tossing out the balance of resources? As to the "melodrama", I wasn't aware that personal opinion expressed without emotion was drama. I'm simply not in favor of leading us down that path. Once orcs get paladins, gnomes will get hunters, belfs will get druids, Alliance will get horde and so on and so on. It all starts with "just one little thing" and then people find themselves wondering when we started sliding down that slope. Like I said, I am not in favor of these race/class combos, but ultimately, the decision is not ours, it is Blizzard's.

I can't argue with you, since you aren't using arguments. At this point you might as well be wearing a "The End is Nigh!" sign strapped to your neck.

---------- Post added 2013-04-04 at 06:04 PM ----------

Oh, that's true. So to get short haired humanoid paladin on horde side the best bet for the future would be undead. Fingers crossed.

Or Orcs since they can be completely bald :P

Well, or wait for the new player models... Or wear a helmet that covers the hair. Or learn to deal with the longhaired elves I guess.

[Drfireburns]

Orcs are kinda big on worship though, though not by "going to church", but they revere the Elements and the Ancestors quite a bit, and when it comes to said belief, the shaman acts as the "priest".

---------- Post added 2013-04-04 at 05:58 PM ----------





Well they were at least prior to Cataclysm... And they weren't really Undead as in Forsaken, they were Ghosts, which while still being Undead isnt quite the same as the playable Forsaken Undead.

Right. I was just stating they were dead (Undead) Paladins. A lot of people didn't know that island even existed in the game.