[Megathread] Camelot Unchained (MMORPG RVR)

[Taldier]

when you have something like "founding principles" and you will not budge or have any flexibility regarding them sounds an awful lot like arrogance to me. vanguard was the exact same way when they were in development they thought their shit didn't smell and they could do no wrong and look what that brought them.

The bottom line is that the dev should never close any doors cause of "principles" it will only hurt them. and the lead designer mark jacobs had nothing to do or very little to do with daoc success but he had EVERYTHING to do with warhammer's failure tho. he had the same mentality as he presents now and it lead to nothing but ignoring feedback and making things his own way

as i said before i really do not wish them to fail but i do not think mark jacobs has any business in the mmo world after what he did to warhammer ( for reference's sake mark jacobs was in charge of the crafting and some of the pve in warhammer and that is where the game failed absymally he had nothing to do at all with the rvr system which was imo good.

Honestly Im pretty sure you couldnt have actually read the foundational points and are just blindly hating on the guy.

They are pretty vague and not exactly what I'd call "restrictive".

Just to save you time, the whole list basically boils down to: "deep gameplay with relevant player choices is good", "player communities are good", "gameplay quality will trump adding more polygons", "Mark Jacobs doesnt like gold sellers", and "This is a RvR based game".

Most people hopefully arent going to say "I want mindless repetitively dull gameplay where I can play by myself and look at pretty pictures while lagging".

Sure you could disagree with the idea of RvR combat I suppose. But thats the kind of game it is. You cant demand something completely change genres.

[Bigitybones]

I have to respectfully disagree. MJ's FPs are the very thing that attract me to this game. He is defining an rvr focused game for a niche group. It simply won't be for everyone. The FPs sort of sum it up, but to be fair, MJ is very involved with the community and has made it very clear that his backers will have a voice in how the FPs are integrated into the game.

he was also very involved with the warhammer community and look how that ended up( i personally loved warhammer for the most part but you can't RvR with yourslef it requires a lot of other players)


i'd personally love a RvR focused game but this i'm afraid won't be it Mark jacobs is not very flexible as was shown with his previous directorship. there's a reason this is a kickstarter project most likely cause he can't find financing from investors( now this is part speculation part going back to some of what he said in his personal blog around the warhammer time)


to me the term principle especially knowing a bit about mark jacobs is scary( he also had principles with warhammer principles that held back the game growing into a good mmo) it just shows he is still inflexible as ever

[surgio]

i'd personally love a RvR focused game but this i'm afraid won't be it Mark jacobs is not very flexible as was shown with his previous directorship. there's a reason this is a kickstarter project most likely cause he can't find financing from investors( now this is part speculation part going back to some of what he said in his personal blog around the warhammer time)

That's pretty close minded.

There are many games doing funding via Kickstarter, Shroud of the Avatar and Torment: Tides of Numenera come to mind. Investors/EA want a _large_ return on their investment. They want to beat wow or compete with wow and get millions of subscribers. Going the indie/KS route allows them financial freedom to deliver a game people want and not a game that is meant to suck you in and take your money

[Sketchit]

I've pledged at the 50 dollar level. I'm very excited to see how this game pans out.

[Eliandal]

Honestly Im pretty sure you couldnt have actually read the foundational points and are just blindly hating on the guy

Quoting this for truth!

Mark has been VERY active, on multiple forums/boards soliciting advice, revising points, etc.

I'm a contributor to this - would that I could afford more!

[SmudgePudge]

Yeah, and another day has gone by and they're sitting at 1million 20k. At this rate they won't be anywhere near the goal; if they don't have anything more than that initial push and this trickle they currently have.

I hear what you are saying and as a backer, I'm certainly nervous. But I would like to point out that after the first two days CU needed an average of right around $40k a day to finish out. That's not including the surge at the end that almost all KS game projects see as people realize it's going to fund and jump to get in on the early action.

So while it's nervous business trickling along like this, we are actually doing ok. Except for today for some. Not sure what the deal was but all KS projects have their bad days.

---------- Post added 2013-04-10 at 04:09 PM ----------

Just to comment on the poster saying Mark Jacobs is inflexible. If you check out this subreddit post: ok so I can't post a link because I'm a noob I guess. Just check out the subreddit at /r/CamelotUnchained and go to the third page and look at this post - IAMA 10k Dragonwhale AMA. you will see how MJ is exactly the opposite of how you are describing him. Within 2 days of the KS starting he changed the rewards of the higher tiers (unofficially of course since you can't edit a KS project) because a backer brought up a good point. DAoC had an entire server that did not include many of the expansions Mythic released because people bitched that the expansions watered down the combat. MJ is constantly posting on the forums and answering questions, even the really negative questions. This isn't how an inflexible dictator would act at all.

What Mark was trying to convey with his Foundational Principles is the fact that he and CSE have some pride and respect for the gaming community and aren't going to do anything that they don't believe in just because it might make them more money. I think your take on the FPs is a bit off but then again - that is your opinion and I certainly will not tell you your opinion is wrong lol. Just that I disagree with your opinion.

Thanks!

[Vervacious]

Exactly - Foundational Principles were meant to convey to the playerbase that he will not budge on the game design for the sake of making more profit. That's what happened with WAR and EA. Mark couldn't do the things he wanted to with the game because the corporation was focused on the bottom line, and with big publishers this happens. Its all about raking in profits, not about meeting the needs of the players. You'd think those two things would go hand in hand, but they don't. Just look at WoW and how casual-oriented it has become over the years. Why? Because that leads to more subs, even if the gameplay is watered down for dedicated players.

What EA wanted was a WoW clone, just like what so many others try to make. No one considers that WoW is the only WoW that anyone wants to play. Plenty of room for innovation for the risk-taker. Mark is that risk-taker, and all MMO players will benefit. The ideas he has that work will find their way into other MMOs, including WoW, who has stolen multiple ideas from other MMOs. So be glad that he is making Camelot Unchained, even if you don't want to play it. Eventually you may benefit from its existence.

[Rathwirt]

Pledged $110. It's worth it. I want this to succeed very much. It's niche, but it's the niche I want.

[Roose]

I guess this is my new hope for MMO pvp.

[grandpab]

i'd personally love a RvR focused game but this i'm afraid won't be it Mark jacobs is not very flexible as was shown with his previous directorship. there's a reason this is a kickstarter project most likely cause he can't find financing from investors( now this is part speculation part going back to some of what he said in his personal blog around the warhammer time)

He talked about this a bit in an interview with Gamebreaker. He wants to be able to make the game the way he wants it, and he doesn't want anyone else to have a say that would force him to make changes.

[Vervacious]

Here's a link that details everything we know about the game so far:
http://www.sklurb.com/camelot/forums....php?f=8&t=346

[namelessone]

I like when MMO developers are honest and upfront about PvP focus of their upcoming game and don't try to tack on bad PvE elements, like Warhammer Online did.

[Slaughty8]

Here is a link to a unofficial FAQs:
http://itcu.enjin.com/forum/m/125636...-unchained-faq
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...XwAHfOjgQ/edit

Enjoy the reading. I hope that you will find this game interesting!

[Worgoblin]

The latest update with the stretch goals is a must see. "The Depths", an RvR dungeon, sounds absolutely amazing. Players can controls the NPC's... even the bosses!

[Slaughty8]

The latest update with the stretch goals is a must see. "The Depths", an RvR dungeon, sounds absolutely amazing. Players can controls the NPC's... even the bosses!

Link: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...d/posts/452806
Well,I don't like this idea tbh, it feels cold and empty. I fear that this game will feel lonely and cold, non-living place. These are my current thoughts. In WoW or any other very popular game, you can feel like a being a part of a nice and great world that is living. Escpecialy GW2's Human race capital, it's amazing there.

These whole Depths concept seems nice but I am fairly sure that this will end as an "only elite guilds" content + may feel lonely like Land of the Dead in Warhammer Online. It was awesome for a few days/weeks and later it was left, nobody was there, olny the wind and bad climate.

[Vervacious]

Link: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...d/posts/452806

These whole Depths concept seems nice but I am fairly sure that this will end as an "only elite guilds" content + may feel lonely like Land of the Dead in Warhammer Online. It was awesome for a few days/weeks and later it was left, nobody was there, olny the wind and bad climate.

Clearly you never experienced Darkness Falls....
When one side controls the dungeon, anyone from that realm can go in there and use it. The exciting part happens when another realm takes control and there's a massive battle during the changing hands of ownership.

So its for anyone to use in the realm, when your realm has control.

[Slaughty8]

Maybe, but I just don't feel it. I don't feel it at all.

[grandpab]

Clearly you never experienced Darkness Falls....
When one side controls the dungeon, anyone from that realm can go in there and use it. The exciting part happens when another realm takes control and there's a massive battle during the changing hands of ownership.

So its for anyone to use in the realm, when your realm has control.

I loved DF! DF is probably one of my favorite dungeons between all the MMOs I've played.

[vizzle]

Offtopic: That guy in that update video talks like that secondary character on Big Bang Theory, the one Sheldon hates who can't talk without making W sounds.

[Skorpionss]

tbh I am sick and tired of MMOs... especially when they are funded by kickstarter and shit... I mean AAA title rpgs barely scratch the market and then there comes some guys with a few million(if that) budget and expect god knows what ... ppl don't join mmos en mass unless it's set in a very well known and loved universe... why do you think wow became so popular when it launched? Because most players were Warcraft fans from the previous games... I doubt there were 10% of the initial playerbase that didn't play one of the Warcrafts ... heck when WoW launched Warcraft 3 was my favourite game... and I even played Counter strike with Warcraft mods because I was desperate to get more stuf with the Warcraft feeling... so naturally when I heard they are making a new Warcraft game and that it'll be MMO I was like no fucking way that's like my dream come true ...

so what I'm trying to say is that instead of going straight to MMO they should've made a single player game, see how the ppl like the universe and all and then turn it to mmo... the fact that it's pvp now as a mmo doesn't really matter since they could simulate that in the single player with castle sieges and stuff that depict how the mmo will be like ... just present us with some characters and do some character development, show us the story, make us like the universe and then go with the MMO ...