It didn't even feel like a real raid
I disliked ToC because there was no trash. I like having some mindless trash mushing between boss fights so that I can relax and we can chat on TeamSpeak. It was just one boss after another and it just drained me of any enthusiasm. Also, the difficulty of heroic mode had no relation to the difficulty of the normal mode. Normal mode was stompable in 20 minutes. I think our best run of 10N was so fast we still had Sated from the first boss when we were in the last phase of the final boss. Heroic mode was a fucking brick wall. You thought heroic Rag was a brick wall? How about heroic Northrend beasts when each application of the bleed had a 50% chance to instantly kill the tank?
The thing with limited tries in ToGC and your performance making the loot at the end better was quite nice (once in a while. I definitely don't want every instance to have something like that), but the raid itself was shit in every way. Extremely boring looking, no trash, no feeling of a raid, absolute hilariously unlogic out of place final boss, stupid gating at release, too many different IDs and I could go on and on...
The real lesson is that people will complain about anything.
Your comments are duly noted and ignored.
I punch a hobo every time someone says 'it's not a rotation it's a priority list lol'.
Different people, different opinions. Those who like trash complain about raids without trash, those who don't like trash complain about raids with trash.
What many have yet to understand is that very few people start a thread because they like something. While many will start a thread (or even more than one!) for every single detail they don't like.
That way, it would seem that everybody complains about everything, when, in fact, most people don't even visit these forums.
No amount of complaints will mean that the majority of players hate something. Although the feedback about ToC was particularly negative and had some good reasons, the most objective one being the small amount of bosses and too many lockouts made it feel shorter and more repetitive than any other raid.
Words fail me. I mean, I'm not even really sure how to respond to this. OP must be playing a completely seperate game or something. To be honest, I'm not sure he's operating in the same universe as the rest of us...
Last edited by Firecrest; 2013-04-08 at 05:38 PM.
Ahhhhh aburned.
"Spread the Sickness, Infect the World"
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<Whatever> 7/7M 4d/w recruiting specific classes
So OP what do you think of the poll results so far?
I personally thought ToC was lame the design was lame an ENTIRE raid you could nearly throw a snowball across to someone it was so small.
The encounters were Lame how many times did we have to kill Anub in WotLK 3 ?
And my biggest gripe of all coming as a dps dk main / fury war alt was the gear sets were atrocious from looks to LAME set bonuses. IT WAS ALL LAME.
I never got to see naxx in vanilla so naxx in LK was super fun for me i am probably one of the few who didnt care much for ULD but I did take my first wow raiding break when ULd was released.
First impressions nothing will ever beat Kara and ICC. Of course I quit playing wow now because its to dumbed down and I still never got over the Panda thing. I heard the thunder raid thing is pretty nice but seems a bit over tuned.
"I'm Tru @ w/e I do" ~ TM
At the time (and following ulduar) TOC really didnt feel all that epic.
But I much, much prefer the low trash , low walking raids.
TOES as an example. Trash is just mindnumbing, offers no challenge, and is pointless. For that reason I actually quite enjoyed ToC , some interesting encounters, and the 'attempts' mechanic added a nice and different challenge too.
If there was a raid instance like TOC where I didn't have to do hours of boring walking and trash, I might consider raiding again.
I loved ToC, it's biggest problem was it was the followup to Ulduar.
Parts of the tier gear looked godawful, but the Alliance rogue set, and the Horde Paladin set (minus the helm) was godlike, I still use it to this day because the colors are so amazing.
Faction champs were awful with PUGs, but I think it's still my favorite fight.
I really enjoyed the fights, problem was the actual raid was boring and badly paced. Also doing the whole 10/25 man in the same lockout was needed to be optimal.
It was easy enough on regular that people could run it with multiple alts on 10m every week, and so hard on heroic at the time due to gear inflation requiring boss mechanics to be extremely brutal on the tanks. So people were running it all the time and having a hell of a time clearing heroic, all the while using up limited attempts. This made it very unpopular. Objectively, fixing those few things about it (which aren't even in the game anymore) probably would have made it much more popular.
TOC was awful and was one of the biggest reasons the game declined.
For one, it offered high end gear way too easily. TOC gear should have never been better than Ulduar. At worst it should have been a sidegrade, kinda like how ZA gear was a sidegrade back in BC. This caused massive ilvl inflation, which in turn created the whole concept of ilvl epeen and all that. Easy raid + easy gear = inflated player sense of worth and complacency.
Secondly, it rendered Ulduar obsolete. Ulduar was one of if not the best raids ever designed by Blizz, but as soon as TOC was released there was no need to ever go back since it was way tougher than TOC and offered worse gear. Many players barely scratched the surface of Ulduar but were full clearing TOC.
Third, the zone itself sucked. Yeah trash is annoying, but you can't have a raid without trash. Every video game ever always has minions you have to go through before you fight the boss. How "epic" would Super Mario be if you got to the castle and instantly fought Bowser? Boss after boss gets boring. And it's all basically in one room! Lazy, terrible design. The fights themselves weren't bad though I admit.
All in all, TOC was one of if not the biggest mistakes ever made by Blizz. We need more raids like Ulduar, TOT, and less like TOC welfair pinatas.
I loved Faction Champions. Watching the people who brag the most about their raid history die repeatedly because they're a ranged person who has no idea what to do when the enemy isn't targeting the tank or dead before it gets to them absolutely made my day.
Almost half our group was dead by the time we got the healers down. Then those of us who knew how to react and think on our feet would finish the fight with little difficulty by kiting, using survival cooldowns, interrupting, and CC'ing. I've rarely felt so involved while raiding.
While the beasts encounter was fun, and Anub'arak was tough, I'd just as soon eat a bullet than do an entire raid in a single fucking room for months over again.
Gear looked awful, save for one or two weapons (and they weren't great either, just not awful imo).
Just didn't feel 'epic' either. Overused term perhaps, but given the relatively small scope of the instance, small amount of relatively unimportant bosses (Everyone save Anub'arak may as well have been in a Vanilla 5 man instance for all their impact on the game world) and dodgy gating/attempts system, yeah. Compared to Ulduar and to a lesser extent ICC, I thought it was poo.
I liked the initial idea of a colosseum esque raid, but the arena was small and apart from the twin valkyr and faction champions the bosses sucked. The Arena itself was too small and not grand enough and when the lich king somehow appeared out of nowhere and collapsed the ground I thought "aaahhhh sheeeeeettt the Nerubian raid we were looking for!" Aaaaand it's just one boss, not even going inside the awesome Nerubian architecture and it's Anubarak again, and he's blue. Never before have I raged at an instance like I did then...